New HH short story - Massacre

[1ncarnadine]

I really hope number 5 answers why Sevatar gets his red gauntlets....

 

Doubt it. I'm thinking we're building up to Talos's first vision ever, so day 5 will probably be that. During or soon after the tail-end of the dropsite massacre or something. It would be a really awkward transition to shoehorn some important Sevatar stuff in after focusing on 1st Claw for 4/5 parts. Not that I would mind a cameo appearance and some Sevatar/1st claw interaction :P 

 

Plus I'm pretty sure AD-B even said that's what we were getting to in one of the posts that got lost, but I can't be sure as my memory is pretty crap.

[No Foes Remain]

I really hope number 5 answers why Sevatar gets his red gauntlets....

Doubt it. I'm thinking we're building up to Talos's first vision ever, so day 5 will probably be that. During or soon after the tail-end of the dropsite massacre or something. It would be a really awkward transition to shoehorn some important Sevatar stuff in after focusing on 1st Claw for 4/5 parts. Not that I would mind a cameo appearance and some Sevatar/1st claw interaction

Plus I'm pretty sure AD-B even said that's what we were getting to in one of the posts that got lost, but I can't be sure as my memory is pretty crap.

Thats what I'm thinking as well. The headaches, nothing showing up on the scans, it all points to his visions. Was actually wondering when Talos had his first one, trust it to be on Istvaan.... Wonder if it will be on the Legion-wide vox like it was in the NL series, if so then this is going to be good. ADB you are a magnificent bastard.

[depthcharge12]

 

I really hope number 5 answers why Sevatar gets his red gauntlets....

I prefer a mystery.

"Time to call up Scooby and the gang! We've got a mystery on our han-"

 

 

*BLAM*

[1ncarnadine]

 

 

I really hope number 5 answers why Sevatar gets his red gauntlets....

I prefer a mystery.

"Time to call up Scooby and the gang! We've got a mystery on our han-"

 

 

*BLAM*

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/e313aog.jpg

[depthcharge12]

 

 

 

I really hope number 5 answers why Sevatar gets his red gauntlets....

 

I prefer a mystery.

"Time to call up Scooby and the gang! We've got a mystery on our han-"

*BLAM*

 

http://i.imgur.com/e313aog.jpg

This made my month.

[Kol Saresk]

Plus I'm pretty sure AD-B even said that's what we were getting to in one of the posts that got lost, but I can't be sure as my memory is pretty crap.

Nope, your memory is good. The only correction would be that he said it in the Q&A with Black Library last Sunday when they asked him about Massacre. That can be found in the app as well and most likely again on Black Library's blog.

 

As for how Sevatar received his gauntlets, I have a personal theory that the puzzle pieces have already been laid out for us. If you would recall, in The First Heretic, Sevatar is ordered by Curze himself to prevent a certain Primarch from fleeing the battle and thereby saving his Legion. As both Corax and the Raven Guard still persist, it is quite obvious Sevatar failed to do so. Probably one of his few failures and definitely the most notable not by its existence, but by its repurcussions.

[depthcharge12]

 

Plus I'm pretty sure AD-B even said that's what we were getting to in one of the posts that got lost, but I can't be sure as my memory is pretty crap.

Nope, your memory is good. The only correction would be that he said it in the Q&A with Black Library last Sunday when they asked him about Massacre. That can be found in the app as well and most likely again on Black Library's blog.

As for how Sevatar received his gauntlets, I have a personal theory that the puzzle pieces have already been laid out for us. If you would recall, in The First Heretic, Sevatar is ordered by Curze himself to prevent a certain Primarch from fleeing the battle and thereby saving his Legion. As both Corax and the Raven Guard still persist, it is quite obvious Sevatar failed to do so. Probably one of his first failures and definitely the most notable not by its existence, but by its repurcussions.

See but I feel like that would be too easy. I'd imagine the Primarchs would want to kill each other personally, I feel they'd be more pissed if one of their captains did it (unless your name is Alpharius).

 

Plus, didn't the AL want to screw with their geneseed?

 

I think it may have something to do with a psychic backlash. Remember Sevatar is a latent psyker too, so maybe all the killing and rituals screw with him and Talos.

[depthcharge12]

@Letsyoudown

 

That's exactly how I imagined the Blackened would look like ;)

[1ncarnadine]

Plus I'm pretty sure AD-B even said that's what we were getting to in one of the posts that got lost, but I can't be sure as my memory is pretty crap.

Nope, your memory is good. The only correction would be that he said it in the Q&A with Black Library last Sunday when they asked him about Massacre. That can be found in the app as well and most likely again on Black Library's blog.

Ahhh ok, I thought I'd seen that somewhere. I'm not going crazy! As much as bad photo edits might suggest otherwise.

@Letsyoudown

That's exactly how I imagined the Blackened would look like

Don't you tempt me. It's a pretty slow day :P

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

Plus I'm pretty sure AD-B even said that's what we were getting to in one of the posts that got lost, but I can't be sure as my memory is pretty crap.

Nope, your memory is good. The only correction would be that he said it in the Q&A with Black Library last Sunday when they asked him about Massacre. That can be found in the app as well and most likely again on Black Library's blog.

As for how Sevatar received his gauntlets, I have a personal theory that the puzzle pieces have already been laid out for us. If you would recall, in The First Heretic, Sevatar is ordered by Curze himself to prevent a certain Primarch from fleeing the battle and thereby saving his Legion. As both Corax and the Raven Guard still persist, it is quite obvious Sevatar failed to do so. Probably one of his first failures and definitely the most notable not by its existence, but by its repurcussions.

See but I feel like that would be too easy. I'd imagine the Primarchs would want to kill each other personally, I feel they'd be more pissed if one of their captains did it (unless your name is Alpharius).

 

Plus, didn't the AL want to screw with their geneseed?

 

I think it may have something to do with a psychic backlash. Remember Sevatar is a latent psyker too, so maybe all the killing and rituals screw with him and Talos.

Preventing a Primarch from escaping and killing a Primarch are two vastly different things however. However, Curze ordered Sevatar to do the former so that it might lead to him[Curze] performing the latter. And so when Sevatar failed, not only did an enemy commander survive, but an enemy commander that Curze had targeted for his own amusement. And we can all guess at how Curze would feel if prey got away from him.

 

And yes, the Alpha Legion were told by the Cabal that the RG would gain access to the archaeotech that created the original gene-seed and they wanted it for themselves. So much so that they took over a World Eaters ship just to keep it from killing their rescuers.

[Saphrael]

 

Preventing a Primarch from escaping and killing a Primarch are two vastly different things however. However, Curze ordered Sevatar to do the former so that it might lead to him[Curze] performing the latter. And so when Sevatar failed, not only did an enemy commander survive, but an enemy commander that Curze had targeted for his own amusement. And we can all guess at how Curze would feel if prey got away from him.

 

How could a legionnaire be realistically expected to keep a primarch anywhere? I understand the 'anyone can take anyone given the right circumstances' stance and that it's possible to contrive the right circumstances for Sev to last more than a minute or so against Corax in a straight up fight, but if the Deliverer really wanted or needed to leave, there's not much even the VIII's favourite Mary-Sue could do about it. 

 

Besides, failing to stall Corax wouldn't make Sevatar a traitor or a fool. And as we know from Savage Weapons those are the reasons why a Night Lord is forced to wear the red, Sevatar being punished as both by his own admission.

 

Anyway, I'm perfectly happy to never find out why he has them, for a number of reasons:

• I'd rather the ink be spent on other characters and legions
• I prefer mystery over confirmation, as most of us know fantasy is almost always better than reality
• I'm worried it won't come across as a true failure or an actual flaw. ADB has a knack for writing failures in a way that make characters look even cooler, and I think Sev has a little too much going for him already

Back on topic: I'm loving the nods for First Talon. I--like most of you I'm guessing--always assumed Talos' cracked aquila breastplate was harvested from a fallen foe and deliberately defaced. Pretty damn cool that it happened at Istvaan.

[Flint13]

So I just blasted through all four parts in one sitting. I have a new favorite A D-B line.

 

"That crest is almost as high as Sevatar's. The enemy will mistake you for a hero."

 

Glad to see the 10th are every bit the same cynically hilarious bastards 10,000 years previous.

[Conn Eremon]

 

 

 

Preventing a Primarch from escaping and killing a Primarch are two vastly different things however. However, Curze ordered Sevatar to do the former so that it might lead to him[Curze] performing the latter. And so when Sevatar failed, not only did an enemy commander survive, but an enemy commander that Curze had targeted for his own amusement. And we can all guess at how Curze would feel if prey got away from him.

How could a legionnaire be realistically expected to keep a primarch anywhere? I understand the 'anyone can take anyone given the right circumstances' stance and that it's possible to contrive the right circumstances for Sev to last more than a minute or so against Corax in a straight up fight, but if the Deliverer really wanted or needed to leave, there's not much even the VIII's favourite Mary-Sue could do about it.

That assumes that Sevatar would seek to duel Corax, right? Why in the night's true name would he do that?

 

No, if he was ordered to contain Corax and prevent the Raven from taking flight, he would do so by being a captain of a Legion, and acting like it.

[depthcharge12]

 

 

Preventing a Primarch from escaping and killing a Primarch are two vastly different things however. However, Curze ordered Sevatar to do the former so that it might lead to him[Curze] performing the latter. And so when Sevatar failed, not only did an enemy commander survive, but an enemy commander that Curze had targeted for his own amusement. And we can all guess at how Curze would feel if prey got away from him.

How could a legionnaire be realistically expected to keep a primarch anywhere? I understand the 'anyone can take anyone given the right circumstances' stance and that it's possible to contrive the right circumstances for Sev to last more than a minute or so against Corax in a straight up fight, but if the Deliverer really wanted or needed to leave, there's not much even the VIII's favourite Mary-Sue could do about it.

That assumes that Sevatar would seek to duel Corax, right? Why in the night's true name would he do that?

No, if he was ordered to contain Corax and prevent the Raven from taking flight, he would do so by being a captain of a Legion, and acting like it.

 

How indeed would he contain him?

 

With witticisms and sneers? :P

[A D-B]

• ADB has a knack for writing failures in a way that make characters look even cooler, and I think Sev has a little too much going for him already

Just a note, here. There's a difference (a vast one) between writing characters whose flaws make them cooler or more interesting, which is what flaws should do as well as hindering them, and writing characters whose flaws ultimately never hinder them and only make them more endearing, never compromising their competence - which is what a Mary Sue is these days (subbing out the authorial self-insert part).

Sarcasm and "cool" disregard are often traits of those kinds of characters, but not an indicator of one. Few other First Captains, f'rex, spend half of the Heresy humiliatingly locked in a jail cell, no matter how sarcastically and snidely they try to deal with it.

I don't think there's much of a case for, say, Talos, Uzas, Cyrion, Grimaldus, Argel Tal, Hyperion, etc. having flaws that ultimately do them any good - and I could list a squillion moments said flaws did the exact opposite, as flaws should. Mary Sue-ism is something I try to pay special attention to, especially in Sevatar, who is my long-running quest to introduce depth to the kind of character I hate (Drizzt, Blade, Wolverine, etc.) over time. He's still in his early days on that score, and he has a few more lessons to learn. Right now he suffers from not much being written about him; he has cameos here and there, and even in the novella that's ostensibly about him, he's robbed of agency almost at once and frustrated by how helpless he is. A fact which doesn't change by the end of Prince of Crows. Quite the opposite.

EDIT: Please note that I'm not saying I'm blameless, here. I can't name an author who is, and given a do-over or three, there's plenty I'd change.

Blah blah blah! I'd rather not go too deeply into it here, as Mary Sue-ism in licensed fiction is something I've spilled a lot of words and chatter over in the past and this isn't the place for more. Either way, to be actually useful instead of self-indulgent for a second: Sev didn't get those gauntlets for a minor screw-up. You get to wear Sinners' Red when you've done something very, very wrong (at least in the eyes of a primarch-slash-madman), and your life is forfeit because of it.

Preventing a Primarch from escaping and killing a Primarch are two vastly different things however. However, Curze ordered Sevatar to do the former so that it might lead to him[Curze] performing the latter. And so when Sevatar failed, not only did an enemy commander survive, but an enemy commander that Curze had targeted for his own amusement. And we can all guess at how Curze would feel if prey got away from him.

How could a legionnaire be realistically expected to keep a primarch anywhere? I understand the 'anyone can take anyone given the right circumstances' stance and that it's possible to contrive the right circumstances for Sev to last more than a minute or so against Corax in a straight up fight, but if the Deliverer really wanted or needed to leave, there's not much even the VIII's favourite Mary-Sue could do about it.

That assumes that Sevatar would seek to duel Corax, right? Why in the night's true name would he do that?

No, if he was ordered to contain Corax and prevent the Raven from taking flight, he would do so by being a captain of a Legion, and acting like it.

How indeed would he contain him?

With witticisms and sneers?

Also smirks and cowardice.

[Scribe]

I still want to read that essay on Drizzt. 

[Wade Garrett]

• ADB has a knack for writing failures in a way that make characters look even cooler, and I think Sev has a little too much going for him already

Just a note, here. There's a difference (a vast one) between writing characters whose flaws make them cooler or more interesting, which is what flaws should do as well as hindering them, and writing characters whose flaws ultimately never hinder them and only make them more endearing, never compromising their competence - which is what a Mary Sue is these days (subbing out the authorial self-insert part).

Sarcasm and "cool" disregard are often traits of those kinds of characters, but not an indicator of one. Few other First Captains, f'rex, spend half of the Heresy humiliatingly locked in a jail cell, no matter how sarcastically and snidely they try to deal with it.

I don't think there's much of a case for, say, Talos, Uzas, Cyrion, Grimaldus, Argel Tal, Hyperion, etc. having flaws that ultimately do them any good - and I could list a squillion moments said flaws did the exact opposite, as flaws should. Mary Sue-ism is something I try to pay special attention to, especially in Sevatar, who is my long-running quest to introduce depth to the kind of character I hate (Drizzt, Blade, Wolverine, etc.) over time. He's still in his early days on that score, and he has a few more lessons to learn. Right now he suffers from not much being written about him; he has cameos here and there, and even in the novella that's ostensibly about him, he's robbed of agency almost at once and frustrated by how helpless he is. A fact which doesn't change by the end of Prince of Crows. Quite the opposite.

EDIT: Please note that I'm not saying I'm blameless, here. I can't name an author who is, and given a do-over or three, there's plenty I'd change.

Blah blah blah! I'd rather not go too deeply into it here, as Mary Sue-ism in licensed fiction is something I've spilled a lot of words and chatter over in the past and this isn't the place for more. Either way, to be actually useful instead of self-indulgent for a second: Sev didn't get those gauntlets for a minor screw-up. You get to wear Sinners' Red when you've done something very, very wrong (at least in the eyes of a primarch-slash-madman), and your life is forfeit because of it.

Preventing a Primarch from escaping and killing a Primarch are two vastly different things however. However, Curze ordered Sevatar to do the former so that it might lead to him[Curze] performing the latter. And so when Sevatar failed, not only did an enemy commander survive, but an enemy commander that Curze had targeted for his own amusement. And we can all guess at how Curze would feel if prey got away from him.

How could a legionnaire be realistically expected to keep a primarch anywhere? I understand the 'anyone can take anyone given the right circumstances' stance and that it's possible to contrive the right circumstances for Sev to last more than a minute or so against Corax in a straight up fight, but if the Deliverer really wanted or needed to leave, there's not much even the VIII's favourite Mary-Sue could do about it.

That assumes that Sevatar would seek to duel Corax, right? Why in the night's true name would he do that?

No, if he was ordered to contain Corax and prevent the Raven from taking flight, he would do so by being a captain of a Legion, and acting like it.

How indeed would he contain him?

With witticisms and sneers?

Also smirks and cowardice.

Villain that he is, I suspect Sev sunk to deeper depths than that.

He asked politely.

[Saphrael]

There's a difference (a vast one) between writing characters whose flaws make them cooler or more interesting, which is what flaws should do as well as hindering them, and writing characters whose flaws ultimately never hinder them and only make them more endearing, never compromising their competence - which is what a Mary Sue is these days (subbing out the authorial self-insert part).

I agree with the distinction and my comment was intended as a reference to your ability to do the former, though it may not of read that way given my glib Mary Sue jab (which was aimed at those spoiled SOB fans of the VIII and not you )

As you point out, Mary Sue-ism has been discussed ad infinitum elsewhere, and I doubt I'll be able to add any value to the discussion here. If you do take special care to avoid Mary Sue-ism with Sev then any comments I make to the contrary will likely fail to convince you or others and risk causing offence or highlighting my own ignorance. Which is why I've scrapped the long post I had about Sev never being diminished by his failures or shortcomings.

Suffice it to say no one can accuse Sev--or any of the characters you've invested time in--of Mary Sue-ism as you've defined it, nor of a lack of character depth. I just don't see the flaws, failures or adverse circumstances as being as balancing of their awesomeness as you do. Oh the wonders of literary interpretation!

Back onto the Massacre story itself, has anyone reading it not read the Night Lords trilogy? I'm loving seeing representative glimpses of the personalities, rivalries and opinions of these guys in such a compressed format (another kudos to ADB), but I wonder how a reader who doesn't bring all the exposition of the trilogy with them feel about these guys?

[Xin Ceithan]

 

 

 

I really hope number 5 answers why Sevatar gets his red gauntlets....

 

I prefer a mystery.

"Time to call up Scooby and the gang! We've got a mystery on our han-"

*BLAM*

 

http://i.imgur.com/e313aog.jpg

This should be getting the Golden Demon, Open Category. And this year's Slayer Sword!

[A D-B]

 

 

 

I really hope number 5 answers why Sevatar gets his red gauntlets....

I prefer a mystery.

"Time to call up Scooby and the gang! We've got a mystery on our han-"

 

 

*BLAM*

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/e313aog.jpg

 

 

Where were you when I needed an omnibus cover?

[Saphrael]

So... has part five come out? My app isn't showing it and is also not showing any of the previous instalments.

[Conn Eremon]

Part 5 was last Friday, I believe. All parts were taken down Sunday, as it was only free for a week.

[The Red Thirst]

Essentially part 5 is Talos coming out of his fugue / vision state 12 days after the battle in part 4, finds himself scratching nostraman runes into his armour and the walls of his room. We meet Primus, which was a nice little touch and Talos realises "there are things in his head" "Memories that never happened" one of which predicts Sergeant Anrathi becoming 'Exalted'

Now I need to re-read the omnibus again, thanks A D-B