The Unseen Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 What would the bonus be? Note, this is not a rage thread, I'm just curious what people think would fit. Free transports obviously, but what would the unique bonus be? DA get improved over watch, suiting the stubborn and intractable nature of the first legion, the codex adherents geta tactical doctrine, what about us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Fleet along with red thirst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagunio Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Bonuses for fluffy BA army (like initiative boost, furious charge, rage etc) wont go in pair with 6 tactical squads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCommanderSamirus Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Fleet along with red thirst. Probably something like this. Maybe reroll one charge die for demi company and full company gets fleet. This is all assumming they just gave us +1I on the charge as part of the unit profiles not as a detachment benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Antodeniel Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Well, first we need to know what kind of army we play, so what are the Blood Angels know for ? Blood Angels : - Fast Attack (Like the White Scars ===> Hit and Run ?) - Brutal Relentless Assault Forces (Crusader, Rage, Relentless, Furious Charge, Hatred, Prefered Ennemy, Counter Attack) - Sacrifice (Rampage, Feel No Pain) (Of course, more can be add, but at first, it is what come in mind.) So what would made sense in the Fluff ? I think we, Blood Angels, should have a Static buff (Red Thirst +1 I) and a Dynamic buff (Red Thirst 2.0, like the Dark Eldars....) since it is well know that the Thirst become stronger as the battle is longer, so why not a system like the Dark Eldars, with ===> Turn 1 : Crusader; Turn 2 : Counter Attack, Turn 3 : Rage....etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 The Bloodied Demi-Company weighs in at 555 points base and grants us The Red Thirst (as well as BA Warlord Trait re-rolls). The BA Battle Company weighs in at 1335 points base and grants us Objective Secured and The Red Thirst (as well as BA Warlord Trait re-rolls). How exactly are these deemed useless? As a concept Formation prior to the C:SM and C:DA ones, it's not far behind at all. We lack the bonus of free transports so maybe it only needs that and perhaps something to be "upgraded" when fielding a "double demi" such as gaining Rage across the board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 The Demi-Company is just a more restrictive Baal Strike Force, but you do not gain any additional benefit for conforming to the Formation. At least the Battle Company adds Objective Secured to the Troops, but that's nowhere near the level of the 'everything is Objective Secured with free transports and multiple Combat Doctrines' that is a codex SM Battle Company, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 As per Jolemai, we get bonuses already. They should be identical to the SM bonuses, however replacing their chapter tactics with Red Thirst. This would, however, require some Death Co formation, as they go outside normal company structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 The Bloodied Demi-Company weighs in at 555 points base and grants us The Red Thirst (as well as BA Warlord Trait re-rolls). The BA Battle Company weighs in at 1335 points base and grants us Objective Secured and The Red Thirst (as well as BA Warlord Trait re-rolls). How exactly are these deemed useless? As a concept Formation prior to the C:SM and C:DA ones, it's not far behind at all. We lack the bonus of free transports so maybe it only needs that and perhaps something to be "upgraded" when fielding a "double demi" such as gaining Rage across the board? Our demi company doesn't have obj secured and we only get an int bonus while vanilla chapters get their chapter tactics and doctrines. Our battle company doesn't get free transports. Why would anyone use the demi company when you can get the same exact bonuses with the BSF while getting to construct a list more freely? They are absolutely useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 The Demi-Company is just a more restrictive Baal Strike Force, but you do not gain any additional benefit for conforming to the Formation. At least the Battle Company adds Objective Secured to the Troops, but that's nowhere near the level of the 'everything is Objective Secured with free transports and multiple Combat Doctrines' that is a codex SM Battle Company, of course. The Bloodied Demi-Company weighs in at 555 points base and grants us The Red Thirst (as well as BA Warlord Trait re-rolls). The BA Battle Company weighs in at 1335 points base and grants us Objective Secured and The Red Thirst (as well as BA Warlord Trait re-rolls). How exactly are these deemed useless? As a concept Formation prior to the C:SM and C:DA ones, it's not far behind at all. We lack the bonus of free transports so maybe it only needs that and perhaps something to be "upgraded" when fielding a "double demi" such as gaining Rage across the board? Our demi company doesn't have obj secured and we only get an int bonus while vanilla chapters get their chapter tactics and doctrines. Our battle company doesn't get free transports. Why would anyone use the demi company when you can get the same exact bonuses with the BSF while getting to construct a list more freely? They are absolutely useless. Regular bonuses: BA: FC SM: Chapter Tactics and Combat Doctrines DA: Grim Resolve With the Demi Company: BA: The Red Thirst SM: Objective Secured and Codex Astartes DA: Objective Secured and Fire Discipline With the "double demi": BA: The Red Thirst and Objective Secured SM: Objective Secured, Company Support and Codex Astartes DA: objective Secured, Supreme Fire Discipline and Company Support As you can see, we lack Company Support. However, both C:SM and C:DA are required to purchase an auxiliary Formation when they use their respective Gladius/Lion's Blade so the savings they make on Dedicated Transports is lost on these Formations. A C:SM Demi Company by itself it simply a more rigid CAD. So the above argument about how "our Demi is a more rigid BSF" is largely irrelevant. As for why take it, in the grand scheme of things it hardly matters. Edit: Added ObjSec to the DA bits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Okay, we trade obj secured for +1int in our demi company while other chapters get their chapter tactics, traits and obj secured. Plus the fact that their traits are actually useful with tactical squads while our bonus isn't really useful when it comes to the same unit. And their auxilary tax is not useless. DA pays 55 points for a scout squad and gets 350 points worth of transports in return in their double demi for example. As for why take it, in the grand scheme of things it hardly matters. I literally have no idea what this sentence is trying to tell me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedemptionNL Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 And their Objective Secured is for all the units in the formation, not just the Troops, and they already get it on their demi-company in addition to their regular stuff. Objective Secured Assault Squads, Devastators, Bikers, Centurions, Dreadnoughts, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 And their Objective Secured is for all the units in the formation, not just the Troops, and they already get it on their demi-company in addition to their regular stuff. Objective Secured Assault Squads, Devastators, Bikers, Centurions, Dreadnoughts, etc. Forgot about this. The whole army is obj secured even the independent characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 And their Objective Secured is for all the units in the formation, not just the Troops, and they already get it on their demi-company in addition to their regular stuff. Objective Secured Assault Squads, Devastators, Bikers, Centurions, Dreadnoughts, etc. Forgot about this. The whole army is obj secured even the independent characters. Mother puss-bucket, thats depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 And their Objective Secured is for all the units in the formation, not just the Troops, and they already get it on their demi-company in addition to their regular stuff. Objective Secured Assault Squads, Devastators, Bikers, Centurions, Dreadnoughts, etc. Forgot about this. The whole army is obj secured even the independent characters. Oh, where does it say that? From what I can see, only units in the SM/DA Demi-Company have Objective Secured. This it not the entire army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 And their Objective Secured is for all the units in the formation, not just the Troops, and they already get it on their demi-company in addition to their regular stuff. Objective Secured Assault Squads, Devastators, Bikers, Centurions, Dreadnoughts, etc. Forgot about this. The whole army is obj secured even the independent characters. Oh, where does it say that? From what I can see, only units in the SM/DA Demi-Company have Objective Secured. This it not the entire army. I should have said all the units in a gladius-demi company list then. All your army on the table during a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Which is incorrect as the 1+ Auxiliary Formations and any Command Formations don't have these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I did say gladius-demi. Auxilaries don't get obj secured I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 We have a built in 425 minimum Auxiliary tax - DA have a 55 point min, and SM a 165 point min. Additionally, they get free transports as often noted, and then gladius/blade formation bonuses not to mention the whole army being Obj Sec. BA would need to lose the additional 425 points extra (except maybe the DA- for fluff reasons) and then pick up +1 Init and Obj Sec and I would call it a day. That +1 init is our equivalent Supreme Fire Power- its not ideal, its nowhere near as strong, but at least we can work with it. At 1500 points - which is standard in most shops and local tournies here, that formation is unplayable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 We have a built in 425 minimum Auxiliary tax Not sure where you're getting the from...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 · Hidden by Morticon, July 16, 2015 - No reason given Hidden by Morticon, July 16, 2015 - No reason given I think blood angel players just want rules that allow them to play there 5ed army's. Link to comment
Jolemai Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 · Hidden by Morticon, July 16, 2015 - No reason given Hidden by Morticon, July 16, 2015 - No reason given I think blood angel players just want rules that allow them to play there 5ed army's. Try not to paint everyone with the same brush. Whilst I'm not refuting that some are dreaming of past glories, some are working with what they have and some are looking at us being on par with the latest seventh edition Codices. Link to comment
The Unseen Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 Anyway, I was considering the Red Thirst something that didn't count towards that, furious charge is not nearly as good as most chapter tactics, only works if you get the charge, and does almost nothing to buff the majority of the units in a demi-company. Tac and Dev squads don't really care about being slightly less terrible on the charge. You'll also note that most other chapters have 2 special rules relating to their tactics. Such as white scars skilled rider and hit and run. Our thing our are fantastic unique units, which don't really matter at all in a double demi-company format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 · Hidden by Morticon, July 16, 2015 - No reason given Hidden by Morticon, July 16, 2015 - No reason given I think blood angel players just want rules that allow them to play there 5ed army's. Try not to paint everyone with the same brush. Whilst I'm not refuting that some are dreaming of past glories, some are working with what they have and some are looking at us being on par with the latest seventh edition Codices. They need their eyes checked! We are nowhere near the same level as the last four armies. Eldar, necron, SM and DA codicies were written with a wholly different approach. They either have better mobility and firepower or have better durability and firepower. Considering assault is secondary to shooting the past two editions we are in a serious disadvantage. I mean even our dedicated assault dreads look funny next to vannilla dreads which gets 4 attacks base and can get hit and run or it will not die depending on your choice of tactics. Like I said before, I love my angels. I have a single army because I have yet to like anything better than Blood Angels be it fluff, models etc. But I am really bitter about the whole situation. I was okay with the codex when it first came out even though we lost ASM as troops and other force org changes but now when I look at other armies it just feels like a kick in the back. Marines still get to take biker troops, lost none of their advantages, improvements and buffs all over the place and we have two books full of redundent formations that you can't really find anywhere since it was limited edition for whatever reason. I really hate GW these days. Link to comment
BadDice0809 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Have to agree with d@n. Absolutely no one thinks BA are a top, or even middling, competitive Codex right now compared to the TRUE 7th edition Codexs (anything past BA). Our Codex was on ice for so long (Why isnt Lemartes a free elite slot like Lukas, Arjac or Slickrot, both books that came out earlier...) and our formations in Exterminatus were the experiment to see how they could work (hence the ridiculous buy in for most and lack of synergy [Red Thirst, Explosion of Bloodlust] with detachments you want to run them with). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.