Company Master loadouts question

[Malakithe]

So what is better? Relic Blade or MoR?

[Chaplain Lucifer]

The mace is better if you have the points, because higher S, Concussive and blind. IMHO.

[Elios Harg]

For artificer and power armor the Mace wins easily. In terminator armor, I prefer the relic blade as it gets a discount and the mace does not.

[SinnerBeta]

For artificer and power armor the Mace wins easily. In terminator armor, I prefer the relic blade as it gets a discount and the mace does not.

It also doesn't suffer as much from loosing a bonus attack when the storm bolter replacing the bolt pistol since it's two handed in the first place. Still, if you have points to spare the Chaplin can take the make along with his Crozius for an extra attack when in TDA.

 

Speaking of loadouts, I got a question: what's the current consensus on the number of relic a single model can take ? Only one ? As many as it wants ? Only one when swapping it out for a weapon and as many non-weapon relics as he wants ?

[Berzul]

As I read it from the Codex, should be as many as they want. 

[Elios Harg]

I've always read it as one per weapon plus any that do not replace a weapon.

[Malakithe]

So mace with Artificer and relic blade for TDA? Easy enough

[Elios Harg]

Yep, the mace is still better than the relic blade stats-wise, but the price difference in tda is a big factor.

[march10k]

 

For artificer and power armor the Mace wins easily. In terminator armor, I prefer the relic blade as it gets a discount and the mace does not.

It also doesn't suffer as much from loosing a bonus attack when the storm bolter replacing the bolt pistol since it's two handed in the first place. Still, if you have points to spare the Chaplin can take the make along with his Crozius for an extra attack when in TDA.

 

Speaking of loadouts, I got a question: what's the current consensus on the number of relic a single model can take ? Only one ? As many as it wants ? Only one when swapping it out for a weapon and as many non-weapon relics as he wants ?

 

 

Um....but it loses the attack...in addition to the higher strength, concussive, and blind, the mace gets +1A from a pistol.  Sure, you can say "gee, if you're taking a stormbolter," but why on earth would you sacrifice an ass-whooping melee attack for a couple of boltgun shots?!?  Mace for the win!  But, as has been mentioned, if you're fielding a company master and a chaplain, the chaplain doesn't have access to a relic blade, so...

 

As I read it from the Codex, should be as many as they want. 

 

 

I've always read it as one per weapon plus any that do not replace a weapon.

 

 

Um...no.  It doesn't say "may replace 'each' weapon with one of the following," it says "may replace one weapon with one of the following."  Only one weapon swap is allowed.  The only other logical reading of the use of the word "one" is that they went out of their way to prevent you from trading in two weapons for one relic.  That woudn't make sense.  Since there is no way to gain any advantage by doing that, they have no motive to forbid it.  Even if it were not obvious for that reason, the reading that only one swap is allowed is the more logical one.  Now, we have two relics that aren't weapons...the wording of the rule makes it clear that only one weapon swap is allowed, but it's ambiguous about whether more than one relic is allowed.  It can validly be read that you can have the shroud, the eye, and one weapon.

[Elios Harg]

Just to point out, the 6th ed codex used the same wording for the melee weapons list: "A model can replace one weapon with one of the following:"

 

Note that this list would have been the only way to pair lightning claws for characters.

 

The new codex has since brought the wording in line with the ranged weapons list: "A model may replace its boltgun, bolt pistol and/or melee weapon with one of the following:"

 

It is worth noting that any model with access to the ranged or melee weapons list now has at least a bolt pistol, boltgun or melee weapon it can swap. This is not the case with relics as some of them have stormbolters instead due to TDA.

 

I think the reasoning behind using the phrase "one of its weapons" is so that it does not have to account for every weapon potentially carried by a character model. I supposed they could have stated: "a model can replace its ranged and/or its melee weapon," but that is a much longer way of saying "one of its weapons."

[SinnerBeta]

 

 

For artificer and power armor the Mace wins easily. In terminator armor, I prefer the relic blade as it gets a discount and the mace does not.

It also doesn't suffer as much from loosing a bonus attack when the storm bolter replacing the bolt pistol since it's two handed in the first place. Still, if you have points to spare the Chaplin can take the make along with his Crozius for an extra attack when in TDA.

 

Speaking of loadouts, I got a question: what's the current consensus on the number of relic a single model can take ? Only one ? As many as it wants ? Only one when swapping it out for a weapon and as many non-weapon relics as he wants ?

 

 

Um....but it loses the attack...in addition to the higher strength, concussive, and blind, the mace gets +1A from a pistol.  Sure, you can say "gee, if you're taking a stormbolter," but why on earth would you sacrifice an ass-whooping melee attack for a couple of boltgun shots?!?  Mace for the win!  But, as has been mentioned, if you're fielding a company master and a chaplain, the chaplain doesn't have access to a relic blade, so...

 

 

"Um....but it loses the attack...in addition to the higher strength, concussive, and blind, the mace gets +1A from a pistol."

It doesn't lose an attack since it can't gain one in the first place due to being two handed.

 

" Sure, you can say "gee, if you're taking a stormbolter," but why on earth would you sacrifice an ass-whooping melee attack for a couple of boltgun shots?!?"

 

When your weapon doesn't gain an additional attack from having a second CCW ? Or when you're switching to a Terminator armour which doesn't keep the pistol ? Or using a Storm Shield ?

 

"But, as has been mentioned, if you're fielding a company master and a chaplain, the chaplain doesn't have access to a relic blade, so..."

 

Yes ? I'm suggesting if you're taking a I Chaplin in TDA you can take the Mace along with the Crozius for a bonus attack. What of it ?

[Caldria]

I don't think I've ever played a DA list yet without including the Int chaplain. (In a small points game with the battle company I still have the regular chaplain ofc, but in that single case the company master takes that role instead)

So for me it's always been the Int Chaplain that get's the mace of redemption as I feel he synergises much better with it. If I were to field both a company master and Int chaplain in the same list I'd always opt for the chaplain to get the mace, and as such the relic blade is the next best option then for the company master. Though I will admit, beyond the battle company I don't see where i'll ever really use a company master. Maybe just with Arti/TDA armour, combi-weapon and a storm shield and have him tank for a unit with the feel no pain relic.

In a Battle Company however, he becomes my "main dude" and i'll give him the mace + shroud in arti armour with auspex. He's not bad at all like this, and its not crazy expensive either (played my last game with this loadout actually, stuck him with a unit of grav devastators who podded in the back field - he tanked some hits for them, helped with enemy cover saves and was decent in combat when the unit was eventually charged)

[eurieus]

I don't think I've ever played a DA list yet without including the Int chaplain. (In a small points game with the battle company I still have the regular chaplain ofc, but in that single case the company master takes that role instead)

 

So for me it's always been the Int Chaplain that get's the mace of redemption as I feel he synergises much better with it. If I were to field both a company master and Int chaplain in the same list I'd always opt for the chaplain to get the mace, and as such the relic blade is the next best option then for the company master. Though I will admit, beyond the battle company I don't see where i'll ever really use a company master. Maybe just with Arti/TDA armour, combi-weapon and a storm shield and have him tank for a unit with the feel no pain relic.

 

In a Battle Company however, he becomes my "main dude" and i'll give him the mace + shroud in arti armour with auspex. He's not bad at all like this, and its not crazy expensive either (played my last game with this loadout actually, stuck him with a unit of grav devastators who podded in the back field - he tanked some hits for them, helped with enemy cover saves and was decent in combat when the unit was eventually charged)

I always try to stick an int-chaplain somewhere in my lists as well, so the MoR is mandatory for me. NEVER used a company master, but i'm looking forward to using him when i finally finish building my demi company. 

 

Also, the SS always negate the +1 attack for a second weapon ,right ? 

[Caldria]

That is correct, storm shield models can never claim the +1 attack for having 2 melee weapons equipped.

[Master Sheol]

The Company Master can get both SS and RB while in TDA?

[Elios Harg]

Yes, it just costs more. He has a separate entry on his datasheet to "take" a storm shield. Doesn't replace a weapon and doesn't prohibit upgrading to TDA, unlike the int-chap's powerfist. So you can take that, upgrade to tda and replace the power sword with a relic blade. He also retains his storm bolter. So, actually replace the stormbolter with foesmiter and you have a pretty awesome, if a bit expensive, character for shooting and CC.