Sanguinary Guard vs Death Company

[Rommel44]

Hey mates. Currently in the process of making a Drop Pod list with the BA Codex, and supporting it will be Dante and a Priest with a Jump Pack. That being said, I am currently debating between either fielding a Deathstar of sorts with either 15x DC or 10x Sanguinary Guard to go with Dante for a hard hitting unit.

 

Both have qualities that I like, however I am interested in what fellow BA players have to say about either of them, or opponents who have faced either of them. Appreciate the help.

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Personally: Both. Tweak your army so that both DC and SG are on the field as they will both be priority targets for your opponents and will make your army that much more versatile/dangerous.

[Indefragable]

The short answer is do you want Raw damage output or survivability:

 

Raw damage:

15x DC with Astorath. Even Abbadon and Draigo will have trouble standing up to that Charge.

 

Survivability:

Sanguinary Guard with a Sanguinary Priest. Preferably something with an Invuln Sv to take AP2 Wounds as well (like Dante or Libby w/ SS). Now this group is no slouch on the damage output (especially with so much AP3) but even if you take just 5x SG, it is VERY expensive and WILL draw ridonkulous amounts of fire.

 

Thing to remember is that DC die like other SM, so maneuver accordingly. FNP is more of a "freebie" in their situation than something to rely on.

 

Honestly, unless there is a specific threat you are countering with these Deathstars, I would recommend splitting up DC into 3x5 for more target coverage and survivability.

 

If you just want Deathstars because "why the heck not" than screw it and go both!

 

TLDR:

SG are more versatile but 15x DC + Astorath = 75 Attacks on the Charge Re-Rolling BOTH To-Hit AND To-Wound

[evildrcheese]

DC, with a Chappy to make the most out of those charge bonuses (reolls on rage and FC) and Dante so you can hit and run to repeat.

 

8 Dc with 2 fists is what I run, Dante tank tank small arms fire on his 2+ and eat Las shots on his 4+.

 

D

[knife&fork]

If you go the MSU route with assault units you often risk extra charge distance, or being able to get into combat at all... Something to keep in mind if you want heavy hitters like SG or DC that are likely to gang up on the same target.

[Remtek]

Between DC and SG, i'm actually leaning towards SG in the new meta. There so much more dakka without ap going around, but that's situational. It's very close, DC are more relaxing to play, as you don't have to worry about positioning as much. SG are superior when doing disordered charges due to high base attacks and master crafted. A big DC unit + Beatstick is awesome vs deathstars, but much worse vs msu. I feel like DC are flat out stronger without IC's since they don't really need them (they increase point cost so much). With SG you will get more milage of having a tank, as you can los dakka more efficient. 

 

Honestly feel the strongest assault unit for Dante is the command squad with jump packs, since giving Dante feel no pain is so valuable, and the unit is both shooty and punchy. Or SG, Dante and a priest, but your sinking in a lot of points into that unit. 

[Bukimimaru]

Sanguinary Guard with a Sanguinary Priest. Preferably something with an Invuln Sv to take AP2 Wounds as well (like Dante or Libby w/ SS).

 

 

For a second there I thought I had over looked the fact that Librarians can take Storm Shields.

Sadly, after gleefuly flicking through the codex and planning a sweet S/S addition to my Librarian, I found that this sadly isnt an option. :(

The only way to give a libby a S/S is to have it in Termy Armour, and a Termy Armour Libby is not somthing you want to attache to Sanguinary Guard.

[Quixus]

SG are superior when doing disordered charges due to high base attacks and master crafted.

How do SG have more attacks? Both units are base 2. SG cannot get bolt pistols but can have the banner. DC has rage and can have pistols.

That's at best 4 attacks (reroll a single die) for the SG and 5 attacks for the DC. An extra attack is always better than a reroll on one attack

[Rommel44]

 

 

SG are superior when doing disordered charges due to high base attacks and master crafted.

How do SG have more attacks? Both units are base 2. SG cannot get bolt pistols but can have the banner. DC has rage and can have pistols.

That's at best 4 attacks (reroll a single die) for the SG and 5 attacks for the DC. An extra attack is always better than a reroll on one attack

However SG have Power Weapons base so they are basically killing everything when they wound minus the few units who have a 2+ armor save. Reason why I am utilizing them a bit more is for that reason, as I play against a lot of Marines, Orks, Necrons, etc.

[Jolemai]

A few questions:

• How do you plan on using Dante, the Priest and your choice with this list?
• What delivery options will you have, if any?
• Will you be holding them in reserve?
• Who will be your Warlord?
• How will you equip your Priest?

[Frater Antodeniel]

Here come the fluff aspect :

 

On one side, we have the lost and relentless butcherers of the Death Company, and on the other side, we have the remorless and divinely ordered angelic executors of the Sanguinary Guard.

 

If you want to play the Sane aspect of your chapter, brings the Sanguinary Guard, Dante and Sanguinary Priest.

If you want to play the Insane aspect of your chapter, brings the Death Company, Astorath, Seth, Chaplains and co.

 

And of course you can mix, for they are both side of the same coin. =)

[Rommel44]

<p>A few questions:

• How do you plan on using Dante, the Priest and your choice with this list?
• What delivery options will you have, if any?
• Will you be holding them in reserve?
• Who will be your Warlord?
• How will you equip your Priest?

* Dante and the unit he is with will and have been used as an Alpha Strike unit, one who supports the Drop Pod units as they come in and it does depend on the opponent. Priest is a cheap HQ choice and one that benefits the whole unit and can add some extra punch.

 

* Currently been Deep Striking them in as Dante ' s Warlord Trait makes it super easy, however have considered using a Storm Raven if do something other than Dante. Plus it would cover my anti-air.

 

* Yes they always start in Reserve at this point. Too much these days can kill of an elite Assault unit before it can get close to them.

 

* Dante when I field him. If running my DP list from the SM Codex, a Chapter Master would be my Warlord.

 

* Priest is equipped with Valors Edge, Jump Pack, BP, and Meltabombs. Simple but effective.

[Remtek]

 

SG are superior when doing disordered charges due to high base attacks and master crafted.

How do SG have more attacks? Both units are base 2. SG cannot get bolt pistols but can have the banner. DC has rage and can have pistols.

That's at best 4 attacks (reroll a single die) for the SG and 5 attacks for the DC. An extra attack is always better than a reroll on one attack

 

 

Didt say they had more attacks, but considering they have all have power weapons 3 base attacks with a re-roll each is very efficient when doing disordered charges or when getting charged. They do get mowed down by AP2 in some matchups :( It's worth giving them a shot! 

[Captain Caine 24th]

In pickup games I often run something close with 6x sanguinary guard, a sanguinary priest and Dante. The FNP, fearless, extra weapon skill, and hit and run are a lot of great bonuses. I usually run this along side a few assault units, generally being death company.

 

Last week Putting Dante and the sanguinary guard out front allowed me to tank some really nasty shooting from the leman russ's. This also provided cover and a distraction for the death company to advance. The Ravens came in and helped eliminate a lot of the AP2. Everybody worked together and it was a great day for Baal.  

 

Anyway, it depends on what else is in the army. I use varied units to give me some tactical flexibility while keeping the army tightly focused on assault. In the same way Running death company behind bikes can be effective to get at least some kind of cover save--and a 5+ cover save with 5+ feel no pain can save the game. Or some use rhinos/razors to cover predators. So yes I agree one unit is better than another in certain scenarios, but I view the units based on the flexibility they add to the army in addition to the kills they generate.  The concern I'd have is less what unit, but rather that I usually prefer smaller units as 15x death company or 10x sanguinary guard is a lot of points to be targeted in shooting (if a centurion pod came down next to them I'd rather they just wiped out a 160pt squad than 400+).

 

One last thought, I think no matter what, you absolutely need hit and run on that big of an assault unit, either Dante like you've got listed or a land raider excelsior, or some ally, etc. 

[Ming]

I've been trying out DC, SG, and VG.  SG certainly can kill off the other two groups with ease due to their AP3, MC swords and 2+ saves.  A banner is a must for the extra attack.  Vs other factions, SG can also cause fear.  Regardless, for all three groups, if you get lucky, a librarian is a pathway to improve their saves, otherwise a SP or corbulo is a must for the VG or SG.  Its already built-in to the DC.