Multiple Relics on 1 Character

[DA_WarM]

Can an independent character take more than one relic?  I know you can't take the same one on another character but can he take a second one?

BattleScribe prevents me to do it but I can't find any such wording in the codex.

 

[Gillyfish]

If memory serves the Codex says you can't take more than one per character (possibly army - I would need to check).

[DA_WarM]

If memory serves the Codex says you can't take more than one per character (possibly army - I would need to check).

 

So I can't take a Shroud of Heroes and Mace of Redemption on the character?

[eurieus]

I'm pretty sure you can, but can't take multiple relics of the same sort in one army. 

[TheAvengingKnee]

 

 

A model may replace one weapon with one of the following

There are 2 ways I can see interpreting that:

1: A model may swap one weapon for one relic as many times as you want and he has weapons to swap

2: A modem may swap one weapon for one relic one time. 

 

I can see both being correct.

[WellSpokenMan]

I don't have the codex in front of me, but wouldn't Eye of the Unseen and Shroud of Heroes be exceptions to this?  Generally non-weapon relics don't replace a weapon. 

[DarkAngeal]

Yes, there are specific exceptions for them

[TheAvengingKnee]

You are correct they have the little ³ mark that indicates that a weapon does not need to be swapped for them. 

[DA_WarM]

I'm sure that it says that "you may take items from".

It the said list, it says "replace a weapon with" with the Shroud of Heroes and Eye of the Unseen being exceptions.

[SvenONE]

I see it similar to Avenging Knee's first option.

 

For instance, one thing I think you can do is trade your melee weapon for a Mace of Redemption, and your ranged weapon for a Foe Smiter, and also take a Shroud of Heroes.  

 

Battlescribe does some weird things.  The special wargear is a good example also because the codex says you can take "up to one of each" which means you can't take multiple digital weapons, but you should be able to take a conversion field, auspex, digital weapons etc.  But if I recall battlescribe let's you only take one.

 

Pretty sure if you were limited to just 1 relic it would specify only taking 1 item from this list.

[DA_WarM]

I see it similar to Avenging Knee's first option.

 

For instance, one thing I think you can do is trade your melee weapon for a Mace of Redemption, and your ranged weapon for a Foe Smiter, and also take a Shroud of Heroes.  

 

Battlescribe does some weird things.  The special wargear is a good example also because the codex says you can take "up to one of each" which means you can't take multiple digital weapons, but you should be able to take a conversion field, auspex, digital weapons etc.  But if I recall battlescribe let's you only take one.

 

Pretty sure if you were limited to just 1 relic it would specify only taking 1 item from this list.

 

I'm pretty sure that it doesn't say that a character can't take more than one relic.

[AngelVeto]

I don't think it prevents multiple relics on one character, so that while there is no direct love for successor chapters a company master in tda with foe smiter and a relic blade is a pretty good 1st company grand master for successor chapters

[SvenONE]

 

 

I'm pretty sure that it doesn't say that a character can't take more than one relic.

 

 

Isn't that what I was saying? that there's no limit? The double negative is messing with me.

[march10k]

Can an independent character take more than one relic?  I know you can't take the same one on another character but can he take a second one?

BattleScribe prevents me to do it but I can't find any such wording in the codex.

 

You can have more than one relic, but you cannot swap more than one of your weapons for a relic.  Shouldn't be a problem, lol.

 

 

 

 

A model may replace one weapon with one of the following

There are 2 ways I can see interpreting that:

1: A model may swap one weapon for one relic as many times as you want and he has weapons to swap

2: A modem may swap one weapon for one relic one time. 

 

I can see both being correct.

 

 

Only the second reading is correct.  The first reading would require wording along the lines of "may replace each/any weapon."  The text "may replace one weapon" could stand alone as a complete and comprehensible statement, the rest of the sentence simply answers the question "with what?"  Only one swap is allowed.  Also, the text "repeat this process as many times as you like, until you run out of weapons to surrender or relics to claim" is mysteriously absent...if it doesn't say you can do it, you can't do it.

 

Yes, there are specific exceptions for them

 

Precisely, you can take one relic weapon and as many non-weapon relics as you like. 

 

I'm sure that it says that "you may take items from".

It the said list, it says "replace a weapon with" with the Shroud of Heroes and Eye of the Unseen being exceptions.

 

WRONG.  It doesn't say "replace a weapon," it says "replace one weapon."  Not that it matters..."a" is singular, it means precisely the same thing as ONE.  It doesn't mean "as many as you like."

 

 

I see it similar to Avenging Knee's first option.

 

For instance, one thing I think you can do is trade your melee weapon for a Mace of Redemption, and your ranged weapon for a Foe Smiter, and also take a Shroud of Heroes.  

 

Battlescribe does some weird things.  The special wargear is a good example also because the codex says you can take "up to one of each" which means you can't take multiple digital weapons, but you should be able to take a conversion field, auspex, digital weapons etc.  But if I recall battlescribe let's you only take one.

 

Pretty sure if you were limited to just 1 relic it would specify only taking 1 item from this list.

 

Um.  No.  You may replace one weapon with one relic.  It says so in black and white.  It doesn't say anywhere that you can do so more than once.  If it said "each weapon" or "any weapon," then yeah.  But no.  One.  On the other hand, it doesn't say that you can't take more than one relic...so you can have the eye, the shroud, and one weapon on the same model.  The number of relics is NOT limited, but the number of weapon swaps IS limited.

[Bryan Blaire]

And if that works for you an your gaming group, March, more power to you.

 

For everyone else, consult with the people you game with and see what everyone agrees to and remember to be fair with the interpretation: if you apply wording a certain way to one Codex, it should be applied the same way to all armies from all Codexes.

 

Further rules interpretation arguments can be taken up in the Official Rules forum.

[SvenONE]

 

Um.  No.  You may replace one weapon with one relic.  It says so in black and white.  It doesn't say anywhere that you can do so more than once.  If it said "each weapon" or "any weapon," then yeah.  But no.  One.  On the other hand, it doesn't say that you can't take more than one relic...so you can have the eye, the shroud, and one weapon on the same model.  The number of relics is NOT limited, but the number of weapon swaps IS limited.

 

 

Again I'm not seeing it as clear as you, only because the confusion might stem from the fact that most HQs there are two weapons and it doesn't say "may only replace one..."  For instance the Ork and Necron, and Daemonkin etc. books just say "may take one of the following" under their relics where there's nothing to exchange, let alone 2 things to exchange.

 

But then again I don't think it really matters if you run 2 weapon relics or 1.  Running a Mace of Redemption AND a Monster Slayer or a Foe Smiter, is costly and redundant for a marginal gain.

[Elios Harg]

Copied from another thread as this is the more appropriate place to discuss it:

 

 

Just to point out, the 6th ed codex used the same wording for the melee weapons list: "A model can replace one weapon with one of the following:"

 

Note that this list would have been the only way to pair lightning claws for characters.

 

The new codex has since brought the wording in line with the ranged weapons list: "A model may replace its boltgun, bolt pistol and/or melee weapon with one of the following:"

 

It is worth noting that any model with access to the ranged or melee weapons list now has at least a bolt pistol, boltgun or melee weapon it can swap. This is not the case with relics as some of them have stormbolters instead due to TDA.

 

I think the reasoning behind using the phrase "one of its weapons" is so that it does not have to account for every weapon potentially carried by a character model. I supposed they could have stated: "a model can replace its ranged and/or its melee weapon," but that is a much longer way of saying "one of its weapons."

[march10k]

And if that works for you an your gaming group, March, more power to you.

 

For everyone else, consult with the people you game with and see what everyone agrees to and remember to be fair with the interpretation: if you apply wording a certain way to one Codex, it should be applied the same way to all armies from all Codexes.

 

Further rules interpretation arguments can be taken up in the Official Rules forum.

 

Bryan, it's pretty foul of you to deem my universal explanation of plain English a house rule and then cut off discussion.  I agree that this belongs in the Official Rules forum...so move the thread!!!

 

Copied from another thread as this is the more appropriate place to discuss it:

 

 

Just to point out, the 6th ed codex used the same wording for the melee weapons list: "A model can replace one weapon with one of the following:"

 

Note that this list would have been the only way to pair lightning claws for characters.

 

The new codex has since brought the wording in line with the ranged weapons list: "A model may replace its boltgun, bolt pistol and/or melee weapon with one of the following:"

 

It is worth noting that any model with access to the ranged or melee weapons list now has at least a bolt pistol, boltgun or melee weapon it can swap. This is not the case with relics as some of them have stormbolters instead due to TDA.

 

I think the reasoning behind using the phrase "one of its weapons" is so that it does not have to account for every weapon potentially carried by a character model. I supposed they could have stated: "a model can replace its ranged and/or its melee weapon," but that is a much longer way of saying "one of its weapons."

 

So...let me get this straight.  You are saying "one" must mean "one at a time until you are satisfied or you run out of weapons to sacrifice" because you insist that it must be GW's intent for you to have access to lightning claws in pairs?  No sale.  GW sells metal veteran models with one lightning claw and a pistol.  Single claws are very much not unusual in their mindset, you cannot reason that "lightning claws come in pairs, so since the only way to get a pair is to make 'may take one' mean 'may take as many as you want at a one to one ratio,' that must be what "may take one" means" because the underlying premise that GW intended for you to be able to take two lightning claws is fundamentally flawed.

 

As for the "gee, it would be so cumbersome to phrase a rule as anything other than 'one of its weapons'," hogwash.  "any of its weapons" would work just fine and mean what you want it to mean, an unlimited number of swaps.

[Bryan Blaire]

March, I hardly deemed your explanation a house rule. I said if it works for your group, great. It may not work for all, and that's fine too. Luckily GW themselves has a rule in the rulebook for different interpretations, and no one on the the Internet has the capability of dictating to any group of players how they must play something. ;)

Until someone produces a definitive FAQ or Errata, this one is open to interpretation/preference of play.

With that, because this argument isn't going anywhere, and this isn't the Official Rules forum and affects more than just the Dark Angels book (as there are similar wordings in other Codexes):