Brother Inritz Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I had a question. I already have a Chapter Master as my HQ but I'm building a 2000 pt army and that screams a 2nd HQ. I'm thinking Ezekiel. Is that a good choice? I've heard mixed things from the other sites and I thought I'd ask the people who's opinions I trust the most, B&C. I know he's the only way I can get the highest level of Dark Angel Psyker abilities. Is there a better HQ for the points or should I just go ahead and give GW more of my money? I may end up switching the Chapter Master for an Inquisitor but that's a story for another day. Any info would be appreciated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311445-questions-about-ezekiel/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigshead Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I've used Ezekiel numerous times with mixed results with the previous codex. Used him twice with the new one and he shone both times. One time he rode in a razorback with a tactical squad and ended up nerfing a bloodthirster with the new interromancy stuff, before hacking it to bits with his force sword, then moving on to double team another bloodthirster with a jump pack chaplain. Second game he drop podded in with a company master and a command squad, that extra attack helped carve up some bikers and a squad of chaos marines. So is he worth it? Yes. I think so. Is there anything better for the points? Possibly, a biker librarian can be a nice little HQ IMO, and you can clock one of those guys in for around the same points with mastery level 2. That extra toughness and the conversion field give him something zeke doesn't have. Why not proxy him for a few games and try him out before taking the plunge with your cash? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311445-questions-about-ezekiel/#findComment-4128125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elios Harg Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 Honestly, Ezekiel is the most points efficient of our HQs. He is essentially a company master stat-wise, has ML3 and artificer armour plus the bubble of +1A. He is the most bang for your buck of any of our HQ options, I just don't like his warlord trait, so he makes a good 2nd HQ. He also lacks an invulnerable save, so you have to be careful about that. The preferred method of fielding him would likely be as part of a Librarius Conclave so that he can cast on 3s and double the range of mind worm. However, he is still excellent without the conclave. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311445-questions-about-ezekiel/#findComment-4128128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigshead Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 I've also had him work well dropped in a pod with Azrael and a command squad or vets. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311445-questions-about-ezekiel/#findComment-4128131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 I used him a lot in 4th edition...or was it 5th? He's worth the points, but not auto-include. I probably won't often field him in this edition under this codex...last couple editions, it's been all about Belial and an IC in TDA. This time, I'm liking librarians...I'm thinking a demi company led by a jump-packing company master with the mace (and ten naked jumpers to deliver him), a bike-libby accompanying an RWAS, and a TDA libby dropping in with a DWSF. Four mastery levels of interromancy, better protected. Also, Zeke definitely does NOT have a company master's statline...WS6 is vastly superior to WS5. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311445-questions-about-ezekiel/#findComment-4128526 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 In the new addition he's an auto I run him with the Deathwing Knights The adementium will + his mastery level means you can end up denying on a 3+ for maledictions he takes 4 powers from 1 table Interomancy so a good chance of rage to give you a huge number of attacks on the squad Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311445-questions-about-ezekiel/#findComment-4128595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elios Harg Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 I don't know about WS6 being vastly superior. The majority of units in the game are WS4 or lower, thus WS5 is usually enough to hit on 3+. Only against elite units like DWKs or GK paladins will WS6 shine. WS3 still hits both on a 4+, so it doesn't help all that much defensively. If WS6 were VASTLY superior to WS5, then Asmodai would be worth his points. Additionally, because of the book, Ezekiel has one more attack than a typical company master (unless said company master is supported by Ezekiel). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311445-questions-about-ezekiel/#findComment-4128673 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 I don't know about WS6 being vastly superior. The majority of units in the game are WS4 or lower, thus WS5 is usually enough to hit on 3+. Only against elite units like DWKs or GK paladins will WS6 shine. WS3 still hits both on a 4+, so it doesn't help all that much defensively. If WS6 were VASTLY superior to WS5, then Asmodai would be worth his points. Additionally, because of the book, Ezekiel has one more attack than a typical company master (unless said company master is supported by Ezekiel). ~Sigh~ Yes, I know that WS6 doesn't do any more than WS5 does against fire warriors and whiteshields. That's not at all the point, that's not driving my choice of characters, and that's not what your characters should plan to fight. On the other hand, if your enemy is a character, you can pretty much count on him having WS5 or WS6, although there are quite a few with better stats than you. For the 90% of characters with WS5 or WS6, you definitely want to have WS6. Either you hit on 3s to his 4s (if he's WS5), or you prevent him from doing that to you (if he's WS6). In a character to character fight, WS6 is probably the biggest discriminator there is. In that context, it's as big a deal as the difference between AP2 and AP3. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311445-questions-about-ezekiel/#findComment-4128912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I can't sing the praises of Ezekiel enough. I think he's hands down one of our best HQs after Sammael, but you can't directly compare them because they do different things. Ezekiel is probably one of the best options for a budget CAD. The downside to running him in Lion's Blade simply is the fact you can't take him directly, but if you were to pair him up with a Chaplain, it's not as bad I guess, but if you're going to go the CM route, which is a hot new route. I would skip Ezekiel only because with the Lion's Blade I don't think you really should be spending more points into HQs than you already need to, unless you're playing a significant amount of points, and even then I'd bring him with a Conclave before I brought him as an Inner Circle formation. In the world of the WS debate, he's got a master crafted weapon, it may only help 1 attack, but it helps offset a little. There's also the very outside chance that you score a Mind Worm wound or if you're really lucky, Mind Wipe. Yeah he lost WS6, but he's more of a support than a brawler like an Int-Chap or a CM. He's also giving everyone within 6" an extra attack, which in the right squad is going to be pretty good. So while the CM is still a good choice, Ezekiel is fun to play and isn't say... Asmodai by any stretch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311445-questions-about-ezekiel/#findComment-4129735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Inritz Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 Well I'm running 2000 pts and I can't decide between Sam and Ravenwing Command Squad and Ezekiel and Deathwing Command Squad. I Once I boost the armies to 3000 pts I'll have both, but I'm not sure how to play at the moment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311445-questions-about-ezekiel/#findComment-4132677 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Sam and Ravenwing Command squad IMO. Black Knights are INSANELY good this edition and Sam isn't a slouch either with his AP2 strike at initiative sword! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311445-questions-about-ezekiel/#findComment-4132797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TA]Typher Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Sam and Ravenwing Command squad IMO. Black Knights are INSANELY good this edition and Sam isn't a slouch either with his AP2 strike at initiative sword! yeah Black night armies are going to rule (even though it is really unfluffy). My only problem with Sammy is his low Strength. Often failing to wound is his Achilles heel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311445-questions-about-ezekiel/#findComment-4132880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 He's a fantastic choice, and point for point very effective. Finesse is required at times, and he needs protection. Definitely a worthy second or primary HQ. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311445-questions-about-ezekiel/#findComment-4136170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elphilo Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Sam and Ravenwing Command squad IMO. Black Knights are INSANELY good this edition and Sam isn't a slouch either with his AP2 strike at initiative sword! yeah Black night armies are going to rule (even though it is really unfluffy). My only problem with Sammy is his low Strength. Often failing to wound is his Achilles heel. Yeah I've noticed that too. But the fact he has an AP2 at Initiative weapon does make people second guess assaulting him. I just don't tell them he's still S4 unless they ask or I'm rolling to wound ;P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311445-questions-about-ezekiel/#findComment-4136278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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