Tauroxes are they any good?

[captain sox]

Ah yes... I see where you are coming from. And yes, the base Taurox isn't as good as the Prime, but I was thinking it would be good (for me) to put the Augur Array on since its cheaper than a Prime. 

 

Great discussion.

 

Who wants some soup?

[march10k]

Agreed.  I would dispute that the base taurox has "some good shooting potential."  I think Sox's post illustrates precisely what is wrong.  For the savings of a paltry plasma pistol, you lose one weapon and one pip of front armor, when compared to the chimera.  That's...overwhelming.  The Chimera does better at shooting AND does better at carrying troops.  The only time I would consider taking one is if I was exactly 15 points short of getting one more chimmy...then, it's desperation, not design, lol.

 

As for taking "just 1 or 2 chimeras," well...I might.  I can recall quite a few games where I took three, so 2 isn't out of the question, especially at sub-1850 points.  

 

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/L/bo3649905.html

 

It's been done...

[CommissarHughes]

Agreed.  I would dispute that the base taurox has "some good shooting potential."  I think Sox's post illustrates precisely what is wrong.  For the savings of a paltry plasma pistol, you lose one weapon and one pip of front armor, when compared to the chimera.  That's...overwhelming.  The Chimera does better at shooting AND does better at carrying troops.  The only time I would consider taking one is if I was exactly 15 points short of getting one more chimmy...then, it's desperation, not design, lol.

 

As for taking "just 1 or 2 chimeras," well...I might.  I can recall quite a few games where I took three, so 2 isn't out of the question, especially at sub-1850 points.  

 

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/L/bo3649905.html

 

It's been done...

 

Well, let me defend the vanilla Taurox just a little. I see it as a vehicle that you're meant to mass up and throw at objectives as fast as possible turn one no matter what is between them and their destination. It's designed to take as many cheap squads as you can get (50 point guard squads with no goodies) and secure objectives for objective cards. When the troops are out, the auto cannon will support the troops till they're silenced. 

 

But then you run into the price issue again where you're paying $10 extra for a disposable transport... Maybe a 10 point price drop or assault vehicle would start to fix things...

[walter h]

I think that the ability to move across difficult terrain with no penalty is being missed here.

[captain sox]

But when it comes to the Prime, 14 Twin Linked BS4 shots with the Gatling Cannon is pretty decent no? What Chimera variant can do that? If we are going to say the 1 point of armour is a difference, would the 1 point of BS on the Prime be just as huge of a difference?

Or move 12" Fire 2 Twin Linked Autocannon Shots and Small Blast at BS 4

(fuel to the fire)

[CoffeeGrunt]

But when it comes to the Prime, 14 Twin Linked BS4 shots with the Gatling Cannon is pretty decent no? What Chimera variant can do that? If we are going to say the 1 point of armour is a difference, would the 1 point of BS on the Prime be just as huge of a difference?

Or move 12" Fire 2 Twin Linked Autocannon Shots and Small Blast at BS 4

(fuel to the fire)

But then it's 85pts, so you end up overspending on a paper tank. Compared to even the fairly lackluster Ravager, that's still not a great deal.

I think that the ability to move across difficult terrain with no penalty is being missed here.

5pt upgrade to the Chimera does the exact same thing.

[WarriorFish]

Plus Chimeras are amphibious! Everyone uses that rule right?

The Prime is the proper Taurox in my opinion, albeit still in need of some improvement. The normal one is just GW's ham fisted way to try and get more sales without putting any thought into the execution. With some attention I feel it could be a nice complement to the Chimera approach but we're a long way from that.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I think that if the regular taurox were 15 points cheaper base, it would be worth it. The Taurox needs some help, it's not so much that the front armor is 11, as the rest of the armor is 10, rear I understand, but 10 on the side, in the current meta of drop pods and deep strike you'll start to see more side armor shots, which means that even bolters are going to glance it to death (I know, it's happened to me). 

 

It's rules need to help it more than they do before people will sit up and pay attention. It's really doing a rhino's job with a razorback's firepower, but it's doing it for 5 points more than a razorback. Drop it 10 points because, guard, and call it good, I'd take them all day for 40 points. 

[Frater Cornelius]

I think the choice depends on a whole lot more. Let's get started:

 

CCS - Always a Chimera since they can issue Orders from there and they will usually hang back, being able to make more out of the AV12

 

PCS - Depends on their job. If you have no interest in orders and just want to suicide them, they a Taurox is better. However, I would also take a Chimera due to Orders and the ability to tank-shock, thus moving them into position to fire flamers from the top.

 

Mech Platoon - I would almost always take a Taurox. You are literally going for a spam here, thus saving those 15-20pts is important. You can either blob them up and have empty autocannons cruise around, get objectives and force the enemy to deal with them, which will almost always be a waste of points. An empty Taurox is almost always preferable to an empty Chimera, since a Chimera has better firing points and Las Arrays. If you want to mech them up, I would still go for the Taurox to save points.

 

Cover Vets - Cover Camping Vets would also get a Taurox from me, simply because having another set of AC for long range shooting is solid and I already mentioned that I prefer an empty Taurox to an empty Chimera.

 

Mech Vets - I think this one is where most people will argue. This is one of those points where I can not give a clear answer either. It is not as clear cut for me like with the CCS or Platoon. I think it depends on what weapons you want to bring. Plasma Vets would benefit from a Chimera due to the longer range on their weapons, thus being able to maximize the use of the more convenient firing points and AV12.

Melta Vets need to go forward ASAP, so getting those few more inches by disembarking from the side of a Taurox may just make the difference between 2D6 and 1D6 against AV. However, Vets rely on their transports for mobility, so surviving the first turn of enemy shooting is paramount, which the Chimera does better.

 

So, to sum it up:

I would take the Taurox as an empty fire-support vehicle and dedicated scoring vehicle.

I would take the Chimera for units that can give orders and to function as a mobile fire base.

 

Imagine the Chimera as the pivots on the field while the Tauroxes are the little nails. Personally, I run more Chimeras, because I dislike the idea of hit and run tactics and I prefer slow but bulky fire bases moving with the inevitability of death. Having said that, I am considering empty Tauroxes for my Platoon to support the Chimera Vets.

[Master Antaeus]

Eh.  A common Taurox with an autocannon can contribute fire from very far away.  I recommend a regular infantry squad (to keep things cheap) and flat-out the truck behind your chimeras grabbing objectives while the rest of your army pushes forward.  Honestly, you could probably do the job for less points, but you can protect your squad fairly cheaply.  I think the common taurox should be costed as a rhino.