SM Allies - how to approach it?

[Frater Cornelius]

On paper, they seem one of the best allies, if not the best allies along with Imperial Knights. While Sisters do indeed do Bolter fire a lot better due to their AoF and cheaper ppm, they lack Grav, Bikes and AA. SM bring all of those, along with a solid beat stick (the Chapter Master) and Pods for Dominions.

 

However, when mixing those armies, I realize that both sides take a few too many points each and at 1850, trade-offs need to be made. It is easier to min-max with Sisters, so I wonder if MSU BSS in MM Immolators on top of Exorcists is a good addition to SM Bikes. Or do you have a better way of approaching this alliance?

 

Cheers.

[*Furyou Miko]

If I were to combine the two, that's what I would do - Sisters as a primary force, with Marine bikes providing skirmish support.

[Frater Cornelius]

Aye, that was the plan. However, SM are quite a point sink. I like to use Clan Raukaan with Chapter Master (AA, TH, Bike, Gorgon's Chains), Bike Command Squad (Grav, Apothecary - stick Celestine in there), Bikes as Troops and Thunderfire Cannons. However, this setup alone costs 800-1000pts. This does not leave enough room to flesh out Sisters in a proper way. I suppose I could cut the SM contingent, but I am not sure if the trade-off is worth it.

 

Edit: Unless I drop the Exorcists from the AS side. Then this would all fit.

[*Furyou Miko]

You can make an effective Sisters list in 500 points, let alone 850.

Focus on small units, just one exorcist is probably sufficient, and some meltaminions.

[Frater Cornelius]

Aye, so what you are saying is MSU Sisters in Immolators are good enough? I will need to try that. Because right now it does not look like it could beat the AS + IK Combo. It looks a whole lot meatier.

 

By the way, is the Land Raider + Jacobus + Repentia worth running?

[Naminé]

Aye, so what you are saying is MSU Sisters in Immolators are good enough? I will need to try that. Because right now it does not look like it could beat the AS + IK Combo. It looks a whole lot meatier.

 

By the way, is the Land Raider + Jacobus + Repentia worth running?

 

Oh my yes it is worth running :p

 

TBH I don't personally feel as though Marines have much else to offer Sisters other then Assault transports, drop-pods and bikes.  If you're taking Thunderfire Cannons you won't need Sisters for flamers.  If you're taking Dominions you don't need Drop-pods for them either, better to run a SM command squad in that case since it is far more resilient.  Like Miko said one Exorcist is enough (and to be honest you don't even need one of those).

[Frater Cornelius]

And take Scouts as Troops or what? Hm, there are too many taxes involved. This sounds less appealing by the minute. If I could choose, all I wound want to in the Sisters army is Conscripts, TFC and Land Raiders in addition to what it has right now and I would be happy. As is stands, I do not feel like SM add a lot for their points. They do better as a stand-alone army, as do Sisters I feel.

[*Furyou Miko]

This has always been my conclusion: Allying Sisters dilutes them far more than it grants them power.

[Naminé]

I feel Inquisition, Grey Knights and Guard have more to offer Sisters then Marines, unless there is something specific one has in mind that they want to do.

[Frater Cornelius]

I feel Inquisition, Grey Knights and Guard have more to offer Sisters then Marines, unless there is something specific one has in mind that they want to do.

 

Please, tell me more. I have not found a way to effectively get Guard in there. As for SM, the reason I always want to include them is because I want to use my Demigrpyhs and Karl Franz :D Other than that, I want an Ecclesiarchal knightly order. Something that used to be a Knight House but became something far more holy. I usually like a good selection of units to make a balanced army with a few aces up their sleeves (usually a Knight) instead of spamming (I especially dislike MSU spamming, unless we are talking a niche elite unit like Dominions).

 

Either way, tell me, what do the forces you mentioned add to the army and how can they improve it ;)

[grendal1989]

I've been playing with a 1500 pt sisters + flesh tearers for their pods and Karlaen's reserves reroll trait. Its been interesting having 4 pods I can play around with putting girls in (the 5th is a tac squad with heavy flamer and combi flamer where I put my cannoness with combi flamer). just makes me wish we could get some pods for variety as I run into a lot of instances where putting my Dom's in an immolator and outflanking isn't as an effective delivery as the pod and more annoying to remove from objectives.

[Naminé]

I feel Inquisition, Grey Knights and Guard have more to offer Sisters then Marines, unless there is something specific one has in mind that they want to do.

Please, tell me more. I have not found a way to effectively get Guard in there. As for SM, the reason I always want to include them is because I want to use my Demigrpyhs and Karl Franz Other than that, I want an Ecclesiarchal knightly order. Something that used to be a Knight House but became something far more holy. I usually like a good selection of units to make a balanced army with a few aces up their sleeves (usually a Knight) instead of spamming (I especially dislike MSU spamming, unless we are talking a niche elite unit like Dominions).

Either way, tell me, what do the forces you mentioned add to the army and how can they improve it

Guard give you range, cheap troops, blobs and variety in ways which step on Sisters' toes less then Marines. Another way of saying it is that there is always some overlap with Marines and Sisters which results in the dilution of potency that Miko was talking about. With guard there is less of that, as well as cheap Psyker and mechanic options that we don't usually get, AA, flyers, Tank Squadrons and artillery, etc. Even tough or fast infantry in the form of Ogryns and Rough Riders respectively.

In turn, Sisters units strengthen these well with priests, specialist yet hardy infantry, and some crushing CC potential.

[Frater Cornelius]

Okay, so the infamous Yarrick blob with some armour. I like the Guard armour. Especially the Basilisk, Russ and Baneblade. So much dakka.

However, let me ask the other way around. What do Sisters bring to Guard? For me an alliance is only worth it when both factions benefit from it. My first instinct would be to bring more Guard to have more boots and more tanks.

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Personally I use Marines and sisters together all the time and I find that they don't dilute the force at all but instead give it some handy buffs.

What I tend to do is use Black templars or Death Watch to fit the fluff.

 

Flyers are not so much of an issue these days as not as many are around, not to mention we do have the Avenger & Marauder open to us now due to FW being able to be used.

 

In terms of our weaknesses I find our main issue is with high toughness foes, armour and hordes we are good with, Jet bikes are an issue for us due to being on the edge of our range and not having allot of shots at them but the main problem is Wraith Knights.

Now in bound folks will normally only ever see 1 due to the 300 (not exact cost) point price tag depending on upgrades.

These mini titans get a 5+ FNP against anything we throw at it if even if our AP can get through its 3+ armour, its fast, strong in combat, has multiple D cannons and a nice amount of wounds on top of that.

So for this very reason Grav is the answer, the knight only has a 50/50 chance of being wounded by melta and 1/3rd of those wounds will be saved due to FNP before we even consider cover options of which as its a model with wounds it will get cover from having its toe in buildings, yes our dominiors can ignore this now and again but our army is not all dominors and we have to get them close.

 

For this reason a Drop Pod full of Deathwatch Grav Cannon Centurions with a Librarian with the 2+ invun armour for 1 round, take the troop tax and have a razorback with lascannon and twin linked plasma gun with melta marine squad.

Yes to dod this is 505 points so it is expencive but it is also a huge threat to our foes and lets face it, for 995 Points I can easily fit in 4 Immolators with sisters, upgrades, HQ and 2 Exorcists. ;)

[Frater Cornelius]

Well, it works if you use MSU Sisters. As has been established, I do not like MSU very much :P As such it does force me to do trade-offs. Grav is literally the only thing that speaks for SM. However, a WK is literally one match-up and many people do not take it due to point costs. And if they run one, it is the Sword and Board option these days. Given how strong the Battle Company is, I think that Eldar will not pack one since it gets hard countered, giving other races a bit of a rest.

 

I am currently looking into IG. They feel better. While my stomach is not the source of all truths, it does have its moments. I will need to test it.

[*Furyou Miko]

What Sisters bring to the Guard is some more resilient units you can use to set up traps. Nobody wants to charge a Yarrick Blob... but a little unit of Sisters? Easy game that turns out to be insanely durable.

 

We also bring Dominions and Seraphim - the Guard codex lacks forward-ranging alpha strike support. Dominions and Seraphim can get up the board far more quickly than anything in the Guard codex (except Guard things that don't want to be close, like sentinels!) and either thin the numbers (seraphim) or take out high-priority targets (there isn't much that can resist five Ignores Cover meltaguns at BS4)

 

We also bring a hidden boon. The Sacred Standard of the Orders Militant gives every friendly unit within 12" an extra attack and a Morale reroll. That's scary enough with twenty Battle Sisters, but imagine fifty Guardsmen with a priest and Yarrick. A hundred and fsixty attacks, rerolling to hit and wound.

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Black Templars Sir...

They keep the faith and have been stead fast allies to the sisters, for that reason alone they deserve a place. ;)

 

Personally as its such a threat and always makes its points back I dont see it going any time soon.

[Frater Cornelius]

What Sisters bring to the Guard is some more resilient units you can use to set up traps. Nobody wants to charge a Yarrick Blob... but a little unit of Sisters? Easy game that turns out to be insanely durable.

 

We also bring Dominions and Seraphim - the Guard codex lacks forward-ranging alpha strike support. Dominions and Seraphim can get up the board far more quickly than anything in the Guard codex (except Guard things that don't want to be close, like sentinels!) and either thin the numbers (seraphim) or take out high-priority targets (there isn't much that can resist five Ignores Cover meltaguns at BS4)

 

We also bring a hidden boon. The Sacred Standard of the Orders Militant gives every friendly unit within 12" an extra attack and a Morale reroll. That's scary enough with twenty Battle Sisters, but imagine fifty Guardsmen with a priest and Yarrick. A hundred and fsixty attacks, rerolling to hit and wound.

 

Yeah, the Yarrick blob is very interesting. Shame, that there are not enough points to include the big guns. I like my Basilisks and Leman Russ and Baneblades. But realistically, those toys only function well at 2k or more or when playing mono-guard. I will try fielding the blob though. May be fun.

 

I just had my first game with Sisters + IK Crusader against a Flyrant + Tau tournament list. Two Flyrants, two Riptides, three Skyrays, Mark'O and a bunch of Crisis and spore mines as Troops. I played two units of 10 Sisters with HF/F, Sim, Vet, Rhino, one units of 5 Meltaminions with MB and Vet in MM Immolator, Celestine and Jacobus in a unit of 10 Seraphim naked, two Exorcists and a Crusader with Battle Cannon upgrade.

I won 16-8 and tabled him T6. That Knight drew a lot of firepower and the Sisters are surprising resistance. SoF saved my arse a few times, 5+ re-rollable on Seraphim tanked all the Skyray Missiles and SMS. The S6+ spam was the same against Sisters as against Marines, but I paid less. In the end, I only lost a Rhino, an Exorcist, all Doms, 7 Seraphim and Celestine but she stood back up. Was pretty damn fun. More fun than Marines in any case.

[grendal1989]

what did you do with the Seraphim? I usually rely on them being quick but with jacobus I would have thought they woudl be too slow.

[Frater Cornelius]

They slingshot him to the front. A T2 charge was fairly easy to make. However the Seraphim lost 7 members when all three Skyrays unleashed all their SMS and all Missiles at the same time. That 5++ re-rollable was the deciding factor here. I do not see Jacobus as much of a burden. He can keep up quite nicely with you chain the Seraphim and the bonuses he gives far outweigh that inconvenience if you ask me.