Prot Must Build a Knight!

[Prot]

Alright, as discussed in my latest Batrep thread, I think enough is enough already.

 

I have several projects on the go and I need a break from painting line-troops, and the Knight is the perfect distraction. I've had a Warden/Crusader Knight box set since release, and haven't assembled it mostly because I'm afraid of taking the wrong options.

 

So I need the help of those of you more experienced in this matter, but I also have a few questions:

 

- When building your Knight, did you glue the entire thing together? Or did you manage to pin the top/bottom together for easy portability? I would think transport is an issue for this thing.

 

- Let's assume for the sake of argument we are talking about using this exclusively for a Grey Knight army with a -standard- codex list. (You know the type... termies/libbies/etc.)

 

1. Knight Warden:

- Avenger Gatling Gun (looks cool, can be anti-air, threatens most sub AV14 units - easy to combo w/Prescience)

- Meltagun (still intent to move this into assault)

- Reaper Chainsword

- OPTIONAL: Twin Icarus (combined with Avenger hopefully this would answer flyer games when I don't want the Stormraven)

 

TOTAL: 415pts

 

2. Knight Crusader v1:

- Avenger Gatling Gun (See above)

- Meltagun (just because)

- Rapid Fire Battlecanon ( big game infantry killer)

- OPTIONAL: Twin Icarus

 

TOTAL: 470

 

3. Knight Crusader v2:

- Avenger Gatling Gun (I see a theme here..)

- Meltagun

- Thermal Canon (36 vehicle killer)

- OPTIONAL: Twin Icarus Autocannon (combed with above, this covers all situations 'decently')

 

TOTAL: 465

 

 

Notes:

- Unintentionally I put the Avenger on everything. Looking over the codex I just like bang for the buck,and have always been a sucker for the flexibility of Rending ammo.

 

- OPTION1: Cheapest, and able to get into the fray. For my Ultra's? Sure, but not so certain for GK that this is necessary since Stomp seems okay, and GK are a better CC option than many Space Marine armies.

 

- OPTION 2-3: Obviously these are both staying at home for objectives, or what not. But perhaps the biggest consideration is: dual Battlecanon shots vs the Thermal Cannon. The shoulder mounts are options, but I do like the Icarus for interceptor + AA since this model would definitely make it too hard to bring a Stormraven.

 

The biggest consideration might be the range version, vs. the close combat version.

 

The second consideration seems to be shooting role. Flexible? Geared towards vehicles?

 

What do you guys think?

 

I think it's time to put this thing together but I'd really like the input of players using/facing this model on a more regular basis.... especially with Grey Knights.

 

Thanks for looking.

[Carlson793]

Magnets are your friend. Though it's not across the board (due to non-flexible tubing on some Forgeworld models), all my Knights have 6mm magnets at the waist (transportation ease) and in the pivot in the upper arm (to allow me to swap weapons).

 

The only pinning I've done is on the weapons themselves: I use brass rod to hinge the pistons at the wrist end, and let the elbow end float on the provided pins so I can repose the weapons.

[Lucien Eilam]

Almost any other army I'd say you needed the D weapon on a lone Knight, but in this case I'd be tempted by a Crusader with thermal cannon. Grey Knights are already great at assault and crowd control, ranged anti-armour and anti-air are their most glaring weaknesses. You should be able to keep it from getting bogged down.

[Prot]

Magnets are your friend. Though it's not across the board (due to non-flexible tubing on some Forgeworld models), all my Knights have 6mm magnets at the waist (transportation ease) and in the pivot in the upper arm (to allow me to swap weapons).

 

The only pinning I've done is on the weapons themselves: I use brass rod to hinge the pistons at the wrist end, and let the elbow end float on the provided pins so I can repose the weapons.

 

 

I'll try to do this... I've been watching more videos, but I'd definitely like to concentrate on a build.

 

Almost any other army I'd say you needed the D weapon on a lone Knight, but in this case I'd be tempted by a Crusader with thermal cannon. Grey Knights are already great at assault and crowd control, ranged anti-armour and anti-air are their most glaring weaknesses. You should be able to keep it from getting bogged down.

 

I'm leaning this way too. Originally I thought chainsword, but in this army I think like you said it's less important. I'm really liking all the shooting, and flexibility of it.

 

Thanks.

[Zhukov]

Crusader with Avenger and Thermal cannon. After a lot of consideration I am pretty sure this is the 'best answer' in a non-specific case. You can think of the reasons yourself probably, so I wont bother giving them.

[jeffersonian000]

Mine is an action figure with swappable arms, removable armor, and free twisting waist. The legs are locked, but I did cut the knees for a dynamic pose. Still need to add magnet to the carapace for top weapons, and perhaps cut the Stubber for magnetizing the barrel options.

 

SJ

[BetterOffShred]

Mines completely magnetized.  The legs are stuck to the base, but otherwise everything comes off.  The shoulder pads the stubber/melta on left front shoulder, the top carapace weapons are both magnetized, and I magnetized the missile racks so you can swap those out,  the guns come apart completely into pieces, the chainsword and fist both are completely magnetized as well.  It's actually pretty easy you just have to glue shaped bits of sprue in where nobody will look to provide a secure hold.  

 

As far as what the best build is.. I have no idea sir.  I magnetized mine completely so I wouldn't be stuck with something that sucks.  As stated above by Lucien, I kind of figured mine for heavy firepower and Anti-Air, so I'm working on the two big guns and the AA turret for up top.  

 

You seem to be an extremely capable modeler and a far better painter than I, but if you need some good detailed pics of a complete magnetization I can post them up if you'd like.  I know there are probably others who have done so.

-Brett 

[DarkAkra]

I strongly suggest changing the melta gun for the Heavy Stubber.  If you hit any Vehicle in close combat your going to kill it and the Heavy stubber gives you more options.  Ive always found it to be the better option.  Nothing worse then using a melta gun, blowing up the vehicle and not being able to get into CC with the guys inside because he evac'd out of your range.  I run my Warden with the Melta and the Large Blast Missile Launcher and I have never been disappointed in how it performs.

[Prot]

Thanks very much for the feedback so far.

 

DarkAkra- I actually never thought of that. Being that the melta is a new option I just thought, wow- fantastic, an extra AP1 shot, but then again I could eliminate my assault target.... however is that such a bad thing?

 

Overall you guys have given me enough that I think I will finally get over my indecision and crack the box open. I have to finish a Grey Knight project first (which has been sitting around too long) and then I have a few days off work which should give me enough spare time to magnetize.

 

Out of curiosity what do you think the biggest difference is in loading a Knight up for Ultramarine vs Grey Knights?

 

- I'm guess on the surface the Ultra-Knight needs the D-sword. But primary weapon? Does avenger cut it? Or does everyone default to melta blast?

 

- The Grey-Knight -Knight is in an army of AP3, +2 strength + Force (if the stars align) and is probably a greater asset loaded for pill box duty?

 

- I'm assuming those of you that play Knights in an Ultra- type army are using it front line?

[WarriorFish]

This is all of great interest to me, even if I'm a way off getting my Knight on the table. I am very interested in this talk of magnetising though, does anyone have some example pictures/tutorial of their work? I'm looking at magnetising mine fully too and would appreciate some help.

 

Have you thought about colour schemes yet Prot? The AdMech guys were very helpful in giving me advice and ideas :)

[Prot]

Thanks WarriorFish,

 

I don't know.... scheme wise I have two thoughts in mind for my loyalist Imperial Knight:

 

1. A crimson Red, and light grey to white with silver metallic trims. This would be one of the original pre-heresy houses that joined Malcador and the Emperor's original efforts to form the Grey Knights (as described in the codex). Joined with the Grey Knights, and walking into the warp with them to come out 10,000 years wiser, and experienced in half of our 'real time'.

 

This would mean some weathering. I see a lot of Imperial Knights that look too... pristine for me. I rarely do figs in that pristine style anymore, so it would fit my Grey Knights to have something looking a bit like it's been around the block a few times. (I don't mean rolling it in bits and green stuff, and sponging it brown though. Nothing that severe!. lol )

 

2. A deep blue offset with Bone for an ancient Calth house dedicated to my Ultra's for specialized assistance to my 2nd company force.

 

Option 1 - I have the old decals printed on a sheet from Daemonhunters so I have iconography there. Option 2 - I have the Forgeworld Ultramarines Decal sheet with some stunning, larger pieces on it that look "Ultra-ish" but would work great for such a project.

 

So I'm a bit on the fence. Both are fun ideas, and both are plausible, but only one will get done. Oddly enough both are very contrasting ideas, builds, and colour schemes! :)

 

- Magnetizing: I magnetize a LOT of my Grey Knights, and now my Ultra's. I have swappable wrist guns for Ultras now including swords, and combi guns. For Grey Knights it's a bit simpler... magnetized Terminator special weapons in case anything changes in a codex.... and the NDK's have magnetized hammers/swords.

 

I've watched a ton of videos now on the magnetizing of the Knight, and some of it is good, some of it not so good, nor practical. (I don't want this to be a 6 week project!)

 

I'm frankly still intimidated by this project as it's an expensive model with lots of options. I could screw it up easily. I promise though when I crack it open I will do a Wip Thread in my Grey Knight hobby thread for it, showing magnetization as well as painting.

[WarriorFish]

They both sound like good ideas to me, if you can't decide then you should let the dice gods pick for you :P What videos have you found? I'm currently stuck on the waist magnet and haven't properly looked at the arms yet and I too want to do it properly. A new kit especially a large one is always a bit intimidating the first time but I'm sure it'll be simple enough with a good tutorial :)

[Lucien Eilam]

I'm guess on the surface the Ultra-Knight needs the D-sword. But primary weapon? Does avenger cut it? Or does everyone default to melta blast?

 

For me, the first Knight on the roster is almost always a Paladin. The Warden is close, and a little better at some things, but the Paladin's the best all-rounder. Can hurt anything, deal with hordes, and the two stubbers can keep your options open for potential charges. I don't think you can really go wrong with either.

 

Generally I'll add a Stormspear if I need more anti-armour, rather than reaching for the Errant. The Errant's a big game hunter, too easily bogged down by hordes for my taste unless given a lot of support. Always in the first three if my primary is Knights, but a bit too specialised for a lone Knight allied with Space Marines.

[WarriorFish]

Jeff's weapon magnetisation tutorial, should be useful :)

 

I've yet to get any Knight experience but I agree with Lucien, much like the standard Russ it shares the gun basis on the Paladin is a solid all rounder and could be considered the default for when you're in doubt. Though the big melta is quite appealing for a few reasons I don't think these reasons are valid for GK as mentioned.

[jeffersonian000]

The main reason I prefer the Thermal Cannon over the Rapid Fire Battlecannon is due to the threat range diffrrence, in that the Battlecannon encourages you to stay at range, robbing your Knight of its CC role, where as the Thermal Cannon (and Gatling Cannon) keeps the range down to easy closing for melee. As in, save the RFBC for the Crusader.

 

As to the Thermal vs the Gatling, the Gatling is more useful, but the AP1 fills a void in our roster.

 

As to Stubber vs Melta, it the Stubber every time. The Melta has too short of a range, and can potentionally rob you of a charge, while the Stubber continues to fulfill its role of target pinging and forcing grounding tests.

 

On Reaper vs Thunderfist, never pay for the Gauntlet. It's fine on a Gallant, or free from a War Conclave. 10pts is too much to lose I4, regardless of Hurl.

 

SJ

[DarkAkra]

I would always prefer to destroy a target in assault with my Knight.  It gets me that extra movement and closer to other targets.  The first time I used the melta I ended up blowing up my assault target which left my knight out of range to assault the next turn.  I see it trading 1 AP1 melta for 4 D str attacks and d3 stomps.  Against infantry, I hit them with the stubber, assault them, usually kill them than D6 consolidation.  At best my knight has moved 23" in a single turn making him a much larger threat to the enemy,

[BetterOffShred]

I posted a nice group of pictures of how I magnetized my Knight over in the modeling section, here's a link

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311673-quick-and-dirty-magnetized-weapons-for-imperial-knight/

Take a gander if you're interested.  I'd love to hear from anyone else who's done this too :)

 

-Brett

[Emicus]

Stomp is wonderful. Building a knight that doesn’t utilize stomp to the max (close combat!) I think is missing out, not to mention paying points for rules/abilities you don’t use.

I n addition, they’re great when blowing up.

So a close-combat centred build I think would be advisable. May as well take the sword because D, and that leaves you with one “big gun” option. I’m looking at the melta blast, since it can pop big tanks so you can charge the soft morsel deathstars inside.

No tanks? Still going to melt anything to slag. Range not an issue since you want to tapdance on their army anyway. Safety in CC.

Oh and anti-air gun on the carapace for sure, just to have that token anti-air.

​

[WarriorFish]

I think the Knight's death is always something to consider. They're tough, but not super tough and if it's going to blow up better that it does so surrounded by the enemy ;)

 

I've come up with an idea for magnetising the waist of the Knight so I'll let you know once I've tried it out, but I'm not sure when I'll get the free time :( Brett's topic has some good pictures for a quick and easy magnet job :)

[BetterOffShred]

I didn't magnetize the waist on mine, I primed the waist "nipple" really thick so the torso fits on it pretty snug.  It's not real top heavy and I like being able to pivot it and bring his weapons to bear in a more realistic fashion.  Ive seen a couple magnetized torso's that look like they worked out pretty good.  I may end up magnetizing it in the future if it proves to be a pain in the ass during games.

 

-Brett

[WarriorFish]

My plan to magnetise the Knight waist worked, you can find a simple tutorial for it on my WIP topic if it helps

[ChaoticEric]

What version did you end up going with and if you magnetized it, what versions have you tried?

 

I played a gatling/thermal crusader with my knights today and while it performed OK, it was the gatling doing almost all the work. I think the thermal took one hull point off of a soul grinder and that was it for the whole game despite firing every turn. It got me thinking that as I'm sitting back with the crusader to hold the back of the board, the 18" melta range of the thermal cannon really hurt its effectiveness against armour. In this role, perhaps the battle cannon with its 2*D6 for armour penetration is mathematically better against armour outside of melta range? Then again, the ap1 is very handy once you make it through the armour but all in all, I think perhaps the battle cannon is a better all-rounder?

[jeffersonian000]

The Thermal cannon is better on an Errant or an aggressive Crusader, because it encourages you to get close. If you are sitting back, in my opinion you are playing your Knight wrong. However, the Crusader is designed to sit back, which makes the RFBC better than the TC in this case.

 

SJ

[Prot]

- Eric... I'm still on the fence, BUT this is the week it gets built!

 

- SJ... but why not sit back with the Knight? the GK's can handle close combat.... and I find I'm always struggling to find that unit to actually grab homefield objectives in our army.

 

The Gatling, to me, is the most aesthetically pleasing weapon. I get tremendous joy out of rolling fist fulls of dice and laughing maniacally at my ability to roll handfulls of '1's!  But rending is fun, isn't it?

 

I see the allure of the Battlecannon. My only concern on that is deviation. Knocking out my own GK's with it seems like a real possibility. 

 

See this is why it's still in the box. lol

[jeffersonian000]

Because sitting back is inefficient. You are paying for CC, so avoiding CC is wasted points. It's cheaper to ally IG.

 

SJ