ChaoticEric Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 The concern of scattering onto your own knights is also true for the thermal cannon but with terminators the damage is going to be a lot less with the battle cannon than the thermal cannon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311567-prot-must-build-a-knight/page/2/#findComment-4142430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaoticEric Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Because sitting back is inefficient. You are paying for CC, so avoiding CC is wasted points. It's cheaper to ally IG. SJ I've found that the knight is a magnet to things able to bogging it down in CC. With my recent going up against daemonkin the bloodletters did an excellent job of tying my knight up in CC. Since daemons traded daemonic instability for fearless in daemonkin they are perfectly suited for it and he only had to survive with a single bloodletter after his round of charge to waste an entire round of 450+ points of shooting for me. With grey knights it's difficult to set a unit aside to babysit the knight for this kind of situation as we're already usually short on units to hold objectives and getting stuck in. With the crusader I prefer to have it roam the back of my table, holding objectives and unleashing hell from a distance on my opponent as well as avoiding getting stuck in combat. I'm not sure the chainsword or gauntlet really helps against this as str D doesn't really do much against cheap and cheerful hordes? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311567-prot-must-build-a-knight/page/2/#findComment-4142982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 I guess there is a loss in translation, as I was asked explain my original point, which I did. I'll restate, though. In my opinion, the Thermal Cannon's threat range encourages a Knight player to play aggressively, which will bring the Knight into combat sooner rather than later. The Gatling Autocannon have the same threat range, yet also has a much higher rate of fire, making it the better of the two. The Rapid Fire Battlecannon has a threat range well outside of its combat range, which encourages the player to hang back. On a Paladin, it's a waste to hang back, as you are wasting points spent on combat capability. A Crusader, on the other hand, is paying a premium to stay out of combat, which encourages you to upgrade to the RFBC and the Ironstorm rocket pod, both of which have the same threat range. Yet, the Crusader still has great combat potential via Str10 and Stomp, which points to the TC and Stormspear as the more efficient load out, which compliment the AGC more than the RFBC. Yet, it can be argued that a Crusader with RFBC, Stormspear, and Meltagun is optimized for Str8 while maintaining a good spread over all of the different range brackets. Pretty sure that didn't help. /sigh SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311567-prot-must-build-a-knight/page/2/#findComment-4143001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 If you find you have trouble being "encouraged" to play badly by a unit's stats, maybe try writing a reminder on your army list or something. I can't believe that's a serious consideration for most players. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311567-prot-must-build-a-knight/page/2/#findComment-4143035 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaoticEric Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 I completely agree that the knight with thermal cannon and chainsword/gauntlet (can never remember the name of the variants) should be played aggressively, a role it fulfills beautifully. If you find you have trouble being "encouraged" to play badly by a unit's stats, maybe try writing a reminder on your army list or something. I can't believe that's a serious consideration for most players. Perhaps stick a big post-it on top of the knight; "charge, charge, charge!" :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311567-prot-must-build-a-knight/page/2/#findComment-4143038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
varchilde Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 I bought my Knight a month or so before the new kit came out /grumble. It's on my paint desk as I type, and it's a bog standard errant; thermal cannon and sword. I intend to run it up close alongside my 2 NDKs, where it will serve a similar but complementary role: assault duty plus high ST low AP shooting. I love rending in theory, but in practice my dice rolls suck. AP1 consistency will help against hard targets a lot! Some one (Prot I think?) mentioned assault being covered by hammer-handy-force-active-guys. It's worth bearing in mind that running a 400 point knight is going to reduce the number of psychic dice you have available; that's a plus one for the melee version of the knight for me (since D doesn't need those buffs). My 2p v. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311567-prot-must-build-a-knight/page/2/#findComment-4143148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I bought my Knight a month or so before the new kit came out /grumble. It's on my paint desk as I type, and it's a bog standard errant; thermal cannon and sword. I intend to run it up close alongside my 2 NDKs, where it will serve a similar but complementary role: assault duty plus high ST low AP shooting. I love rending in theory, but in practice my dice rolls suck. AP1 consistency will help against hard targets a lot! Some one (Prot I think?) mentioned assault being covered by hammer-handy-force-active-guys. It's worth bearing in mind that running a 400 point knight is going to reduce the number of psychic dice you have available; that's a plus one for the melee version of the knight for me (since D doesn't need those buffs). My 2p v. Pretty much exactly what I do, and for the same reasons, although my Errant only sees table time at 1850 or above. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311567-prot-must-build-a-knight/page/2/#findComment-4143693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted August 16, 2015 Author Share Posted August 16, 2015 Well I did it.... Built the Knight.... he's primed and ready to paint. I could not magnetize him nearly as much as I would have liked. So instead I magnetized him on the shoulders for the choice of 3 mounts. However I think my Ultra's NEED him more. I have 200 million Ultra lists, and he can fit in about 90% of them. And my GK lists hardly change.... But I admit I built him with shooting for GK's in mind. Weird, I know. But I just feel like I don't fear too much in Close Combat with my GK's so I went ridiculously shooty with a:Crusader Knight: Rapid Fire Battle Cannon Avenger Gatling Cannon Stormspear Rocket Pod 470 pts How would this fit into my 1850? Honestly, I think the easiest thing to do is pull a Dreadknight because of the over lap in shooting, even though this leaves a gap for Close Combat, I still think he's best served in the back row for all the Maelstrom I play. In the event of a very deep strike heavy army, it's simple enough to keep Termies on hand in my own zone to prepare for that. It's all theory of course.... I admit I've played against, but never with Knights. (I've used a friend's squadron of 3 in a few Apoc games but i don't count that.) So I'm thinking: 1 Libby: WC3, Liber Daemonica 10 Termies, 2 psycannons, 2 hammers, 2 sets of Falcions NDK loaded Stormraven (Yup, still addicted to making this junker work) 5 Purifiers (riding in the Raven) 5 Interceptors Aegis w/Comms Since I'm mostly just pulling a single NDK from my 1500 point list to make this, and making it 1850, I don't see that big a dip in Warp Charge points. No idea if this will work. Or if it gets GK colours..... but in truth I think unless I play my old 1st Co Gladius with Ultra, the Knight MUST have the chainsword for they suck it hard at CC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311567-prot-must-build-a-knight/page/2/#findComment-4148368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 "He built a Knight, and he liked it ..." :) Seriously, though, the reason why I still run the Errant is because I only needs to drop 20 points of bling to fit it to my 1500 point list for 1850 point play. If I were to take a Crusader instead, I'd have to downgrade Draigo to s second Librarian. Been thinking about ~1000 point all Gallant detachment supported by a 500+ point NSF, for the giggles. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311567-prot-must-build-a-knight/page/2/#findComment-4149134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted August 17, 2015 Author Share Posted August 17, 2015 "He built a Knight, and he liked it ..." Seriously, though, the reason why I still run the Errant is because I only needs to drop 20 points of bling to fit it to my 1500 point list for 1850 point play. If I were to take a Crusader instead, I'd have to downgrade Draigo to s second Librarian. Been thinking about ~1000 point all Gallant detachment supported by a 500+ point NSF, for the giggles. SJ That completely makes sense. I just kept looking at all the big guns and missiles in the box.. it all looked so darn good.... I just got carried away and built a walking fortress! lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311567-prot-must-build-a-knight/page/2/#findComment-4149150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Crusaders are freakingly awesome, no lies. They pew pew stomp stomp stomp better than most, and can just about murderize anything else willing to go toe to toe. And you pay for it. The Warden is definitely a Crusader-lite, being an affordable murderizer. Now Gallants, on the other hand, are thus odd mix of stomps without the pew pew that looks interesting on paper. Interesting enough that I'm seriously thinking on converting three into "Lancers" by scratch building lances in place of their Reapers, and remodeling their legs to be more equestrian. Esquestrus pattern Chargers, so to speak. Cheap and Knightly. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311567-prot-must-build-a-knight/page/2/#findComment-4149170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetterOffShred Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Go Ham on those GK colors Prot. It looks proper as hell. Nah I understand, you got another army that can use him so it might honestly be worth painting him up in a set of "house" colors to have him be a Merc for either force. There's gotta be a whole lot of houses out there in the Imperium that will send a Knight to plow through heretics, Xenos, and everything else that threatens the throne. When I painted mine, I realized that GK were the only loyalist force I was interested in (the most loyal..?) so I Painted him as the big brother the NDK always wanted. That all being said, I'm super excited to see how yours turns out Your painting is always pretty excellent and I think you'll do the model in a glorious fashion. -Brett Edit: I say "when I painted mine" but yeah.. It's not done. This damn Linear Algebra class.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311567-prot-must-build-a-knight/page/2/#findComment-4149531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 Thanks for the vote of confidence. It's an incredibly fun model to paint. I'm several hours into it already. When I start a big project/model I like to make sure my painting push on the project starts with several hours of initial work to keep the motivation up there, but the initial base colours are taking me a very long time.... such huge surfaces. I'm doing a Knight House that committed its resources to Titan.... should be fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311567-prot-must-build-a-knight/page/2/#findComment-4149859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
painkiller Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Do we get to see any pictures, Prot? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311567-prot-must-build-a-knight/page/2/#findComment-4151397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted August 20, 2015 Author Share Posted August 20, 2015 I hope to have pictures up this weekend if I'm lucky. Unfortunately this model started first as a pain because of the assembly and indecision on load out, then I started loving him as the painting started. Now.... I've lost count of how many hours I've sunk into him. I just want to get him done now. lol Also a note of debate I'm having is the decals. I'm unsure of using a house dedicated to the Grey Knights (I came up with a bit of history for that) but decal wise I'm not sure if I'm going to use just decals from the box or mix in a few Grey Knight/Inquisition decals. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311567-prot-must-build-a-knight/page/2/#findComment-4151574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I covered my Errant in =][= bits left over from my GK and Sister projects, and have him painted in silvers and gold just like my GKs. Because I can. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311567-prot-must-build-a-knight/page/2/#findComment-4151718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 Do you have a picture of him? He sounds pretty cool. So I admit burn out tonight. I have sold a few armies to raise funds and had to touch them up and I've done a lot of ultra work with plus rebuilding my gk. this crusader is done. He'll have to do for now. He's drying right now. Hope to have some pics shortly tomorrow Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311567-prot-must-build-a-knight/page/2/#findComment-4152168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
painkiller Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Hi Prot, I seem to remember that you own an airbrush. If so, did you use that to paint the knight? And if yes, why did it take so long to apply the base colors? Brgds, Painkiller Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311567-prot-must-build-a-knight/page/2/#findComment-4152218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I don't really do pics, not a good photographer. Maybe one day. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311567-prot-must-build-a-knight/page/2/#findComment-4152245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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