If You Could Publish An Official Errata/FAQ..

[WolfOfHorus]

What would you change/add in the Crusade List?

 

I'm personally putting together an Errata for my FLGS, we've all come to the conclusion alot of units from Book 1 are either overpriced or lacking rules that justify the cost.

 

Examples of pricing range from the very obvious such as Destroyers, Justerin, Rampagers, Recon Squads etc to the minor upgrades like a Champion, or the Delegatus. It's rife mainly in HQs, Troops and Elites.

 

Or are on the special rules side why Power Scythes for Death Guard aren't just Rampage or why Dreadnoughts have only 2 attacks base and don't have Legion Astartes rule.

 

What would you do?

[Hesh Kadesh]

I keep promising to writing one up but I'm struggling for time (and our houserules are literally scribbled notes pinned to a wall board).

 

Essentially, most of the houserules are made fixing up the rules interaction errors by FW (like Slow and Purposeful) to the downright atrocious wording of certain rules (Master of the Legion), all the way up to modifying the rules to fit within the 7th edition style of game while still feeling like a legion game.

[Theredknight]

In ec -

Perhaps clarify the sonic shrieker rule, so if it's intended that if bought for a model the model gains the benefit not the squad?

 

Maybe add re roll to hit in the units first combat? In row.

 

Crusader doesn't do much anyway, welcome to drop.

 

Some 'mark your target' bonus perhaps, to represent the perfect application of fire and finding weak points, sunset maybe? In row. Possibly bonus to hvy slots targeting, if a unit with nuncio has line of site. Like caking Fire missions.

 

Phoenix guard - ws4 to ws5, maybe add options for volkite chargers or something. Slight point reduction.

 

Rylanor - reduction and access to change weapon load out,but must include one ccw.

 

Tarvitz - maybe give the unit he's with counterattack table wide, maybe bonus like stubborn to units charged in their deployment zone.

 

Kakophoni, change the weapon profile!!!

Keep str 6, lose gets hot, lose the morale test, lose heavy, change to assault, if charging the unit you shot at, some negative modier applied (-1 ws and I possibly?)

make ap3 or ap2 one shot, ap4, 2 shots. Maybe give option of a template attack? That would really make them a viable option for once.

 

Holy moly I just created a legion.

[ROBOcaster]

I would like to see some of the older special characters get a revamp. Loken seems so underwhelming when compared to later special Praetors like Dynat. Not sure the specifics, I'll leave that for someone smarter than me to come up with.

[Marshal Loss]

The first thing I'd do, as a Sons of Horus player would be to make Justaerin worth the points. Either give them a sizeable buff, remove the 85 point tax on three Terminators or simply give them 5 for the set price of 3. Emperor's Children are in need of some attention too.

 

Other than that, balancing the main list. I'd like cheaper Destroyers.

[Moonstalker]

Contemptor Mortis/Mortis dreads available in standard Talons of their type.

 

Vindicators (and Lasdestroyer Vindicators) available in squadrons with Predators.

 

WW Scorpius increase in price, available in artillery squadrons.

 

Deredeo cost increase.

 

Buff several of the lesser-used consuls.  Just some ideas off the top of my head: Champion gets Eternal Warrior when fighting in a challenge.  Vigilator allows you to take one squad of Recon marines with Special Issue Ammo as one of your compulsory troops choices, but he must join them and cannot leave them during the game.  Siege Breaker removes 0-1 limitation on artillery squadrons.  Reduce the price of the Delegatus (he has a good role, but at his price point you're better off just spending 25 more points on a Praetor for the extra stats and wargear) to somewhere between 0 and 15 points.

[Plaguecaster]

Maybe give breacher said the option to get close combat or power weapons like the ultramarines mainly so I can have my breachers wielding sword/ axe and shields without having to play the boys in blue. Maybe give breachers fury of the legion as well.

 

Give veterans access to breacher shields as well, I just like shields ok

[SkimaskMohawk]

No squads of scorpii please, its the only thing that keeps them sane

[Moonstalker]

No squads of scorpii please, its the only thing that keeps them sane

 

Paired with a cost increase, I think it's fine.  They're grossly undercosted anyway.

[DuskRaider]

Let's see...

 

Give the first four Legions a rule update to bring them more in line with the later Legions.

 

Reduce the points cost of Destroyers.

 

Move Grave Wardens to Elites.

 

Allow Vindicators to be taken in squadrons.

 

As was said before, give Power Scythes Rampage. Or remove Unwieldy.

 

Remove "Unwieldy" from Mortarion's weapon Silence.

 

Give Breachers the Counter Attack rule, or allow them to pick one ala the test rules.

 

Take away the "Support Role" BS from some Consuls... Especially Librarians. Poor mutant scum Magnus.

 

Level out power levels of Primarchs to be more in line with what they're supposed to be. Yes, Angron's defense should be subpar, but Guilliman shouldn't really be able to take him down so easily (nor should most barring Horus and perhaps Sanguinius). Nor should Vulkan be tougher than Mortarion.

 

That's about it. For the most part, FW has done an amazing job with the HH rules. There is a definite power level difference between the first four Legions and any that followed. Remove dumb rules from some Legions as well.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

No squads of scorpii please, its the only thing that keeps them sane

 

Paired with a cost increase, I think it's fine.  They're grossly undercosted anyway.

 

 

I agree they're undercosted, but the lack of squadrons is huge. 30k is known to have HS problems, so much so that some amazing choices like sicarans and deredeos can at times be less attractive because they take up an entire slot compared to predators, land raiders and artillery. Thudd guns are already extremely popular as they're efficient at killing everything. A squadron of scorpii is just so much better with a minimum of 6 str 8 ap 3 blasts, taking care of all anti infantry and most vehicle problems; you can now focus solely on AA and possibly anti heavy armour with your remaining two slots and fill in the rest of your list afterwards.

 

Unless you increase the cost where its questionable to even take one, then it will pretty be much always be worth to take 3 of them with the same principle applies to deredeos and sicarans; both are getting a bit pricey when upgraded, but everyone would be running squads of them in an instant, despite the 600+pt cost for it.

 

The same principal goes for either vindi; having the ability to take three in one slot would over-saturate your ability to deal with threats without an actual drawback from losing the slot. 

[Hesh Kadesh]

 

No squads of scorpii please, its the only thing that keeps them sane

 

 

Paired with a cost increase, I think it's fine.  They're grossly undercosted anyway.

Not really. They are strong ap3 in an ap3 dominated meta. If you can't counter that or aborb then you're not a very good player. At low points they are very good, but they are far from autoinclude at higher level, 1-3 squadrons would make that worse as the biggest complaint is that more than 1 take up too many slots. Increasing points costs wouldnt fix that unless they were priced far higher than whaat they are worth; check out the Whirlwind for example.

[DuskRaider]

The problem I see with the Vindicator is it's useless when you factor in that it takes an entire Heavy slot for one tank. It's not a Sicaran, it's a 24" blast. More often than not, I find it a smouldering wreck before it even gets in range.

[Slips]

The problem I see with the Vindicator is it's useless when you factor in that it takes an entire Heavy slot for one tank. It's not a Sicaran, it's a 24" blast. More often than not, I find it a smouldering wreck before it even gets in range.

But, then, you'd take LasVindicators in Squadrons of 3 and drown armor in S9 Ap1 Ordnance 3 Shots per tank....for ~300 points.

 

...yeah.

[Moonstalker]

Regarding the Vindicator and its Lasdestroyer variant, I think they're underrepresented.  Just don't see them often enough, and I think that's down to them taking an entire slot for each.  The heavy support slot is so competitive that they're getting pushed out by other options.  I'd like to see them sharing slots some way, and I thought adding them to a Predator Squadron would be cool.  Perhaps it's more balanced if they're one-per-squadron.  You could take two Predators and one Vindi in one slot.

 

The Scorpius always felt quite powerful to me, and its point cost/armor/weapons compared to both Predators, Vindicators, and the Medusa all seem out of whack; really seems like it needs a price increase.  I like the idea of rolling it into the artillery squadron choice, but allowing 3 of them may not be appropriate.  Maybe you could allow it in the artillery squadron as a one-of, like the idea above, but also allow people to take the very-underused standard Whirlwind (or WW Hyperios, also underutilized) alongside them.

[Darog]

Fix prices

Fix wording of rules - so many errors

Fix rites of war for some legions

 

Fix units:

Assault aquad - minus price

Breacher squad - minus price

Destroyers - rebalance

Bikes - minus price

Seakers - rebalance

jet bikes - minus price

 

Fix some primarches like Dorn, give Corax 4++and other.

 

Squadrons for vindicators, scorpions and other vehicles, mortis dreads.

[norngahl]

Lets be honest wit the Legion:

 

Thudd Guns are undercosted. Way undercosted.

 

Command Squad is overcosted.

 

Dreads are a little overcosted (especially when compared to 40k now), just increase their attacks and they are totally fine.

 

Destroyers are way to overcosted.

 

Assault Marines are totally overcosted.

 

Seekers are a bit overcosted.

 

Karyabyss is way to overcosted. Hell its a drop pod with some small dakka.

 

Scorpius is undercosted.

 

 

 

SoH:

 

Justaerin are the most overcosted unit in the game. Increase them to 5 and their points are right.

 

Reavers are fine, but maybe let them choose their special ability like regular veterans rather then forcing them to take outflank?

 

Increase Lokens AS to 2+ at least.

 

Add some Bonus to abbadon. Like a paragon blade instead of a powersword and he might actually see battle.

 

What about a 2+ AS for Maloghurst at least? For the same points. Right now he dies to easy for 140 points..

 

Rules for Aximand! Please!!! 2+/4+/Paragon Blade tactical genius please :D

[Theredknight]

To be fair, those of us with first four legions, we bought the army for something new at the time, and betrayal was a gamble for fw, and sort of a test bed, I understand why things in that book aren't priced correctly, everyone who I played had this fear that heresy armies were going to be so so overpowered, with fury etc.

I think Iv used fury twice.

 

There's going to be a bit of legion creep, they have done very well overall, some errors, but they are human I suppose!

[Ishagu]

1: I would significantly drop the cost of Destroyers, Recon Marines, Assault Marines and Justaerin Terminators.

 

2: I'd increase Dreadnought and Contemptor Dread base attack profiles to 4.

 

3: I'd increase EC Phoenix Guard WS to 5, and decrease their points.

 

4: I'd allow for all Vindicator types to be taken in squadrons.

 

5: I would change Death Guard Legion rules to:

-Move through Cover

-Ignore dangerous Terrain

-Stubborn

-Subtract 1 from sweeping advance and run rolls.

 

5: I'd keep the costs for Deredeo and Scorpius the same as they are heavy support options that can be taken in limited numbers only.

 

6: Give Abaddon a Paragon Blade, make him Eternal Warrior. Upgrade Loken to have Artifacer Armour.

 

7: Decrease cost of Librarian Consul upgrade.

[Theredknight]

Oh, Eidolon should be eternal warrior too, after what that guy has been through, which is more punishment than sigs!

[Prodigal Son of Magnus]

For the main army list: Seemed Squads, Breacher Squads, and Assault Squads need some sort of price drop, The Scorpius and the Volkite Culverin on HS squads need some sort of nerf/price hike.

For the Legions: Justaerin need something. 2 wounds, assault on deep-strike, or a massive points decrease. Phoenix Guard go down to 250 base and should be WS5. Abaddon and Sevatar should have Eternal Warrior. None of the Primarchs should be unwieldy. Phalanx Breachers need some kind of upgrade or price decrease. Sons of Horus and Emperor's Children need better rules in line with the rest of the legions. Both DG and WE got upgrades and so should they.

[WolfOfHorus]

Nearly finished the Errata for Book 1 if anyone wants it, mainly point reductions but a couple new rules and rehauls.

 

Feels little thought was put into regular Contemptors/Dreadnoughts. Mortis is fine, but the others are waaaay too pricey.

[rendingon1+]

My errata for Alpha Legion:

Lernean Terminators - preferred enemy

Exodus - preferred enemy (infantry), -2 to look out sir (just like vindicare)

Saboteur - insted of sabotage - D3 rolls on haywire or D6+3 wounds (yup, infiltrte->isolate->destroy by Lias Issodon)

Banestrike ammo - ignores 3+ on 5,6. (or increase range to standard boltgun 24")

[DuskRaider]

Perhaps the Laser Destroyer Vindicator needs to go back to being a Sabre and have a different profile. Remember too, you can also give Predators LasCannon turrets and take them in squadrons of 3, so I'm not sure that argument really holds up.

[LostAlone]

Perhaps the Laser Destroyer Vindicator needs to go back to being a Sabre and have a different profile. Remember too, you can also give Predators LasCannon turrets and take them in squadrons of 3, so I'm not sure that argument really holds up.

 

There's a pretty solid difference between 'Just Lascannons' and 'Laser Destroyers' though. Between twin linked re-rolls and being ordinance for penetration makes a difference. I've no idea if that makes enough of a difference, but it's certainly a thing that exists. 

 

As for my own fixes to HH era stuff - 

 

I think personally my only real change would to make it so that a vehicle can never take both a flare shield and armored ceramite. Personally I just don't think that combination leads to fun games. It's such a no brainer to take both and that's bad even for a non-competitive meta-game. Only having one (and it being a players choice) would make for much more interesting games at least in my opinion so that's something I'd definitely change.

 

Other than that... Well, I'd like to see Destroyers and Justarians better balanced points wise but that's kinda obvious. I'd personally like to see dreads have drop pods available (either costing much more points or an extra slot somewhere) outside of specific RoWs but that's more just a pet thing. 

 

Also, maybe I'm just crazy but I'd like to see 30k era games played with the old destroyer rules. Not for any particular reason, just destroyer used to be awesome and it sucks that it's gone.