Arc Rifles vs Plasma Calivers

[Jax40kplyr]

I'm looking to start putting together a War Convocation List, and trying to decide whether or not to arm the Skitarii Rangers with Plasma Calivers or Arc Rifles.

Pretty much a standard list for the Skitarii and Adeptus Mechanicus (2 units of 3 Kataphron Destroyers w/Grav Cannons), with an allied force of Flesh Tearers (Sanguinary Priest, 5 Scouts and 4 drop pods).  The oathsworn detachment will be a Crusader with battle cannon, melta gun, gatling gun and storm spear rocket pod).

I've seen comments on similar lists that taking 3 arc rifles on the Rangers provides more anti-tank than the plasma calivers- essentially both the Rangers and the Vanguard coming out of drop pods with 3 plasma calivers is overkill, especially combined with the kataphron destroyers and crusader.  Thoughts? I've also seen recommendations to swap out the crusader with a Gallant Knight for the dedicated "D" counter-attacks, but its hard to pass up that much dakka  (and the ruststalkers and infiltrators seem to be decent counter attackers).  Just like some feedback from more knowledgeable folks.  Thanks!

[CommodusXIII]

I get some good mileage out of my arc rifles against vehicles.  I can't say that this weapon doesn't do its job, and if I fought more vehicles at AV13+ I'd probably have more to say about it.

 

That being said, three plasma calivers with an Alpha are utterly disgusting in the amount of damage they can do.  I don't face many vehicles above AV12, and the calivers shred transports and infantry alike.  This gets even worse if you roll the BS4 Overwatch trait on the Alpha.

 

Outside of the Alpha's retinue, I don't think I would recommend it.  Without the proper Doctrinas, it's very likely that they'll fry themselves.  This can hamstring you if there are combats brewing elsewhere, as you'll be sacrificing the WS of your entire army to protect your caliver troops.  Even with Preferred Enemy from the Alpha it's a risk, but one that is certainly worth taking.

 

As they say, there's no kill like overkill.

[Jax40kplyr]

I see your point, but would only be running the plasma calivers in the convocation list, which eliminates gets hot.....

[CommodusXIII]

Oh man, I forgot about that! Unless you're facing a lot of AV13+, I'd take full advantage of that!

[Vel'Cona]

Agreed, in a Convocation using DP the Calivers are a strong choice.  Not having Gets Hot! takes care of the biggest issue I have with PC, especially given that they're free for your Convocation Rangers and Vanguard.  Arc Rifles are still strong when dealing with AV14, so I wouldn't write them off entirely.  It really depends on how you set up the rest of your Convocation.

[Pipkin]

Arc Rifles, any day of the week baby.

 

30pts for something that will kill yourself in round 3 (if you're lucky) is kinda to expensive.

[CommodusXIII]

It turns out that this is in relation to the War Convocation formation, so the calivers are both free and safe to handle.

[munocat]

On my vanguard I love the plasma. With the war convocation I run plamsa (vanguard) and arquebus on the Rangers. The reason for the arquebus is the reroll pin that you get to assign against one armor target each turn, using the relic from the cult mechanicus. It is armorbane so 2d6 plus 4 @ 60"

[Jax40kplyr]

Munocat what do you think about the flesh tearers strike force for the drop pods?  Anything better you could see?  Could drop it down to 3 drop pods, sanguinary priest and 2 units of 5 scouts for objective camping....... really comes down to the effectiveness of the plasma alpha strike, combined with the Crusader knight and other associated units.

[ScottishDunc]

So in my experience there is two ways to play the War Convocation (although I am trying other options currently). 

 

1: DP Allies comes in 2 forms depending on what you are looking for

- Flesh Tearers with 3 or 5 pods and 1 or 2 Sang. Priests (I run two) and scouts of whatever flavor.  Put the priests with the Devastators and pod in Arc Rifles and another unit that will punish the enemy turn 1 (typically grav devs for me)

- Space Marine with 3 or 5 pods, Librarian (try for Invisibility or get prescience - prescience isn't a big effect in the war convocation I find), 2 units of scouts.  Same deal with the pods

 

2: Max units.  Fill out all Skatarii units to 10 men, add your preference of CM models (extra units of troops or Robots seem to be popular) and use it to take max effect of the Canticles with volume of fire first turn (can easily choose shroudpaslm over the omniscience turn 1 with the amount of shooting you'll have).

 

Alternate units to look at... Calexus Assassin (if your meta has decent psykers as hes great in a pod), AM for templates and extra shooting (I look at the Wyvern and Tanks), SM for either the Librarian Conclave or the Whirlwind and then you have Corteaz and/or Karamaziov which are both powerful depending on your meta and what you may be lacking.

 

I'm still experimenting of course... just some observations.  The BAO War Convocation list is a great place to start I think though I like a unit of plasma devs due to my meta and remember pods are best to take in odd numbers.

[Frater Cornelius]

I would usually say Arc all day unless it is your Warlord, but seeing as it is the Convocation, I would pull all stops and do full on Plasma, seeing as the Formation eliminates the two disadvantages, cost and heat.

[Jax40kplyr]

Trying to keep it somewhat on topic- has anyone identified any real hard counters to the Convocation list yet?  Somewhat concerned about flyer spam against it...

[Vel'Cona]

Well, if the meta starts to go flyer heavy you can give your IK an Icarus AC, but I think the best counter would be a Dunecrawler or two with Icarus Arrays.  Just a pair of those should be enough to lock down all but the most dedicated air attack.

[ScottishDunc]

That's a good point.  I currently run 1 Dunecrawler with the Icarus as there is some flyers and a bunch of skimmers so it was the right fit for my meta.  Plus, rerolls due to the Canticles can help deal with pesky flyers.

[Cactus]

There's also the Raiment of the Technomartyr on a Magos Dominus, allowing you to double the chances of his unit hitting with snap shots. Not many flyers in my area but I imagine they all fall if you throw enough cognis haywire shots at them.

[Frater Cornelius]

Trying to keep it somewhat on topic- has anyone identified any real hard counters to the Convocation list yet?  Somewhat concerned about flyer spam against it...

 

Hard-counter is a pretty meaningless word when it comes to balanced lists, and the War Convocation, as silly as it is, is very balanced by its nature. To answer your question, there is no hard-counter to the War Convocation. However, Tau and IG can easily outgun them at range. Even Eldar can. They are very slow and fragile. Shrouding + Stealth does not help against IG and Tau either. When you play War Convocation + Flesh Tearers and stick your dudes in pods, then the match-up becomes very hard to beat for most armies. Light Mech armies like Battle Company, especially WS with Scout, have enough redundancy to survive and respond. Tau and Intercept and IG can go to ground behind the Aegis and stand back up on top of their redundancy. Then there is also Coteaz with IHBEY.

I imagine the Green Tide + Mek Gun spam will do nicely as well

 

Notice a pattern? Long range firepower and redudancy beats AdMech armies due to their innate fragility. When you face them as an Elite army though, you will have a tough time.