Frater Cornelius Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Now here's an unusual comparison. Two tanks that do two different things. And therein is the dilemma. I am working on some hard-hitting lists, hybrid guard. AV14, especially SH, are still rock-solid, especially since most shooting is S6, not even S7. The question here is purely about the counter. The Stormsword would be my first choice. It can remove big chucks of the battle field in one shot and hard-counters Jink saves, T5 and literally everything it shoots at. With the size of its blast it will be impossible to avoid the pain. However, the Stormsword does not counter the biggest problem units of the Guard, namely Wraith Knights, Imperial Knights and other SH units, the most obnoxious one being the Lynx Superheavy. The Shadowsword counters death stars and SH, but its blast is half the size of the Stormsword and as such will most likely only ever be able to target one units at a time, which is not enough when you are aiming for mass destruction. So, which one do you think fixes more problems, the Shadowsword or Stormsword? Obviously, trade-offs will be there, but utility can still be maximized. My army also includes Wyvern, Basilisks, Pask with Punisher and Executioner buddy, 30-40 dudes in a blob with AC or LC and Yarrick, Melta Vets or Vulture in any combination. A Knight in addition the the BB variant is also possible and I think it might contribute well to threat overload. Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311646-shadowsword-vs-stormsword/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 This will be a magnetised kit, right? ;) After doing some detailed reading up as part of my ETL vow I've become quite interested in the Stormsword. Very much a point and say goodbye weapon and that's hard to pass up with the large blast. The Shadowsword has a hard hitting weapon but with the changes to D weaponry the single shot with a small blast isn't as good which makes me wondering if it is worth it given the relative difference between the two main guns. With a Knight in the list you can get Strength D from the reaper chainsword, as well as use it to counter other Knights or Wraithlords if you must to protect your other units so I'd say the Stormsword would be more useful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311646-shadowsword-vs-stormsword/#findComment-4132291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 Melee D is too slow. WK have ranged D or high I in melee and Lynx has two D blasts at range. These things need to go T1 and every turn they remain on the board, they blow up too many points. I, too, consider the Stormsword superior, but IG lack the means of solving problems like Lynx in a timely manner, so the Shadowsword would need to cover for it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311646-shadowsword-vs-stormsword/#findComment-4132297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 ... and how do you solve the Skyshield problem that the Lynx is sat upon? ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311646-shadowsword-vs-stormsword/#findComment-4132385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 It's not possible to plan for everything, especially with how wide open the game is with allies etc now, so I wouldn't try to tick every box. Target prioritisation is key and sometimes that involves deciding something isn't worth targeting! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311646-shadowsword-vs-stormsword/#findComment-4132386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 ... and how do you solve the Skyshield problem that the Lynx is sat upon? Pray to the Emperor for that 6 on the D table :D Well, or like Fishy said, ignore that one match-up. A melee WK is not my primary concern, but rather ranged D is. The only ranged D that had a good enough range so that I can not bubble wrap my tanks are WK guns and the Lynx as well as the Shadowsword. This is not a whole lot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311646-shadowsword-vs-stormsword/#findComment-4132399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 It's not possible to plan for everything, especially with how wide open the game is with allies etc now, so I wouldn't try to tick every box. Target prioritisation is key and sometimes that involves deciding something isn't worth targeting! Oh I know, it's just that in these dark times, a Lynx and a Shyshield goes together as well as the jam and creme on the scones in the Commissariat lounge. ... and how do you solve the Skyshield problem that the Lynx is sat upon? Pray to the Emperor for that 6 on the D table Well, or like Fishy said, ignore that one match-up. A melee WK is not my primary concern, but rather ranged D is. The only ranged D that had a good enough range so that I can not bubble wrap my tanks are WK guns and the Lynx as well as the Shadowsword. This is not a whole lot. I realise it's a meta thing and changes aren't quick, but are you expecting to come across the heavy wraithcannon more than the suncannon combo? Trends are changing and many are shifting back towards the suncannon... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311646-shadowsword-vs-stormsword/#findComment-4132423 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Anyway, I guess I don't see the Shadowsword as a counter to the Lynx or Wraithknight, but perhaps that's just my Marine perspective. There's also this on the Shadowsword which has helped with its use. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311646-shadowsword-vs-stormsword/#findComment-4132425 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 The melee WK is becoming the popular choice everywhere. The more I think about it, the more the Stormsword and Stormlord start to look appealing. They are superior in close to any matchup except the aforementioned Lynx, which is not all that common to begin with. Edit: I agree with the thread you posted. The Shadowsword is indeed a superior tank killer. I leave the enemy SH to a Knight and massed LC while I focus on massed destruction to destroy everything around it. One SH won't win a game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311646-shadowsword-vs-stormsword/#findComment-4132435 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emicus Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Isn't the obvious answer to get a couple of each? :)I was very partial to the shadowsword when first reading about it because "omg D". But the Stormsword has a much bigger template and will thus melt MORE stuff to slag whereas the Shadowsword melts less stuff but EVEN HARDER. Unless rolling 1's of course. The range disandvantage is less of a biggie cause the opponent will go nuts trying to kill the shadow regardless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311646-shadowsword-vs-stormsword/#findComment-4133343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurio Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 The stormsword is brutal. Before the nerf to D weapons, I used the shadow sword more often. Now I use the stormsword as my variant of choice and people hate facing it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311646-shadowsword-vs-stormsword/#findComment-4133389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted July 31, 2015 Author Share Posted July 31, 2015 Yeah, I would love to play the Stormsword against a Ravenwing player. He will tell you about his 2s re-rollable FnP squad with smug expression. But then you put get that pie plate out and see his hope sink faster than the Titanic. Totally worth it :D Do you think it is worth sticking four Sponsons on it? Or maybe just two? Or none at all? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311646-shadowsword-vs-stormsword/#findComment-4133395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Not that the Titanic sank particularly fast... :P Sponsons are cool, a nice addition but only a single pair is really needed. Rounds off the fire power nicely as the lascannons can do some good support work and HBs are always useful to fend off enemy infantry. A second set is great for adding more of this but then you're starting to look more expensive. In for a penny in for a pound though, so it's more down to personal preference. Of course best thing is to magnetise so you can change depending on your list... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311646-shadowsword-vs-stormsword/#findComment-4133415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Sponsons are actually pretty great value. They're 10pts cheaper than buying that firepower normally per-sponson. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311646-shadowsword-vs-stormsword/#findComment-4133422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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