Question About Suppressing The Flaw

[Julgolax]

I've learned a lot about the Flaw since the last time I made a thread on the subject. I learned through interpretation and study that it is indeed caused by subtle mutations, (The Red Thirst) and a psychic imprint, (The Black Rage) left in the geneseed caused by the traumatic emotional and physical death of Sanguinius. I was originally under the impression that it was caused by exposure to Ka'bandha in the duel of Angel and Demon that caused this rage and blood lust, but that isn't the direction GW went with it. Just heretical theories!

 

That said I want to know more about how the rituals, procedures, or whatever that the Blood Angels and their successors, save for the Blood Drinkers, undergo to suppress the problem. I know that the Chaplains of any chapter minister the spiritual needs of their battle brothers but I read that they also are charged with keeping an eye on their brothers during pre-battle prayer for the onset of the Black Rage. However, I did not read that they did anything to fortify their brother's spirits against the Flaw.

 

I then turned to reading up on the chapter's Librarians. I originally thought that, "Hey! These guys can fortify their brother's minds with their psychic-ness!" but I found no evidence of this. I wondered why but then it occurred to me that Librarians are just as, if not more so, susceptible to the Flaw since they are inherently born with the psyker mutation, so expecting them to shoulder 100 other brothers' burdens would be too much to ask in addition to their own.

 

I really didn't see much at all on the issue beyond each man's individual efforts to steel his own mind however he can against the encroaching madness. That to me is rather disturbing however, as it seems both uncaring for their own well-being and thus their duty to perform as long as they can. Now don't get me wrong, they're definitely heroes on many levels for dealing with the Flaw AND fighting the worst the enemy has to offer, but is it just because of a collective "burn out" that they don't bother to try anymore like the codex says, or is there more to it?

 

Did I miss something that explains this better or what?

[marine7312000]

Sanguinary Priests. They spend a portion of their time looking for ways to suppress\ cure the Flaw. Chaplains watch for brothers that are about to fall to the flaw and induct these into the Death Company.

[Julgolax]

Sanguinary Priests. They spend a portion of their time looking for ways to suppress\ cure the Flaw. Chaplains watch for brothers that are about to fall to the flaw and induct these into the Death Company.

 

Oh, I know they work on the geneseed for the future but they're not responsible for minds of current battle brothers, just their bodies. That's why I didn't mention them.

[captain Angel]

But they are. The priests serve as just that. They attend to the spiritual needs of the men. They help with prayer, meditation, etc.

 

The blood angels also use coffins to Purify their blood while they sleep.

[Brother Raul]

Chaplain are a bit more proactive than you are suggesting. They inspire/ council the faith that protects against the black rage. Sanguinary priest are also keepers of the thirst and they have been known to incite capitulation to the red thirst in dire situations.

 

Something I linked about 6 months ago was a great short story. It was written by a 'member of the inquisition' who was suggesting that the blood angels geneseed was too pure (ba marines have very long lives) and the red thirst and black rage was the inquisition or even the emperors attempt to sabotage the ba geneseed as it was too pure and long lived marines could be a threat to the leadership of the imperium of man or more likely to fall to chaos as they lived so long corruption was inevitable. Absolutely ripping theories.

[Charlo]

Well, yeah, we all know that if a BA gets to 5k years old he grows wings >;)

[BadDice0809]

Can you link to that story? That sounds like a really cool read...

Also, I know one BA successor used the creation of art to suppress the Flaw/Thirst/ Rage, and that seemed to really work (until grimdark/chaos happened). The hall of art mentioned in the second Swallow BA series on Baal would suggest the Blood Angels might also use art as a supressing medium.

[Julgolax]

I know mystery strengthens the appeal of any story, but sometimes I wish GW would come out and explain the real nature of the Flaw to quell all theories. I still like my "head canon" of a curse put upon the legion by Ka'bandha as the Black Rage and the Red Thirst as a vampire-like mutation set on the Blood Angels by Alpha Legion saboteurs. The reason I like that notion is because the Alpha Legion had their hand in much of the "futurecrafting" of the post-heresy setting. They fell to Chaos at the will of Alpharius Omegon because he believed the only way to defeat Chaos was for it to win. So causing the Blood Angels to become vampiric bloodthirsty killers was the perfect way to take advantage of their innate battle lust.

 

That's just head canon though. :P

 

It's certainly questionable, the manipulations of Sanguinary Priests and Chaplains. I find it hard to believe that they would have the cruel audacity to actively force the Red Thirst and Black Rage... I know Astorath the Grim did that but that's because he has the ability to sense those falling to the Black Rage anyway.

[Xenith]

I know mystery strengthens the appeal of any story, but sometimes I wish GW would come out and explain the real nature of the Flaw to quell all theories. I still like my "head canon" of a curse put upon the legion by Ka'bandha as the Black Rage and the Red Thirst as a vampire-like mutation set on the Blood Angels by Alpha Legion saboteurs. 

 

The red thirst was always there in the Blood Angels. Sanguinius had it, but could control it better. As the geneseed gets older and more diluted, the ability to control it becomes lost.

 

The black rage. Well. That occurred because of the absolute devastation that Horus wreaked upon Sanguinius. Horus was jealous of him, and when he couldn't turn him at the last moment, Psychically charged demi-god Horus destroyed Sanguinius so utterly in body, mind and soul, that his ancestors literally feel this pain. His death anguish echoes through eternity and all of his sons feel it, and it drives them mad. 

 

Ka'Bandha? Well, it's odd where that fits in. He definitely showed Sanguinius what the BA could become by unleashing their rage and making them submit to the thirst, however it merely steeled Sanguinius.

 

Ka'Bandha broke Sanguinius's legs, but then he healed, and then snapped Ka'Bandha in half at the gate of Eternity.

[Charlo]

Xenith puts it's pretty expertly there. Horus and all of the other Primarchs to an extent looked up to the big S. He was the cool older brother. Graceful, powerful, humble and awesome to behold. Horus is often described lamenting about how he wished he could've turned him over to his cause instead of the more outcast and unstable brothers.

 

So when he finally confronts him aboard the Vengeful Spirit in combat and he refuses I imagine Horus has pretty much the entire rage of Khorne behind him at the situation, so after thier fight Old Sanguinius is left pretty much an empty corpse, even his psychic imprint in the warp probably erased forever.

 

This combined with how close Sanguinius was to his legionnaires is what had such an effect on us.

 

Obviously the Iron Hands also lost thier Primarch, but he was always cold towards his Legion. You were strong or he didn't want to know you, so less of a man of his people as it were. But they have thier own issues...

[Frater Antodeniel]

Well, first of all, we need to divide the Flaw in two great parts : The Red Thirst and The Black Rage.

 

The Red Thirst :

 

 - The Red Thirst is the most common aspect of the flaw, an ever present need of Blood that every Blood Angels of the 40k millenium feel, but with difference about it strenght between brothers.

 

- The Red Thirst is the result of the mutation of the Omophagea, a mutation born from the cultural influence of the Baalites populations from were the IX Legion recrut.

 

- The Red Thirst appears to be the Minor and Recent part of the Flaw, because as far as i remember, Sanguinius did not know of the red thirst, but knew very well about the madness of the Black Rage, a fact that lead him to mercifull execute some of his legionnaries. Due to this fact, the Red Thirst is something post Horus Heresy.

 

- Finally, The Red Thirst have quite a fluff gap since many information about it lack. We have piece of the Plan but we cannot really see it clearly.

 

The Black Rage :

 

- The Black Rage appears to be the final state of a seris of post-traumatics chocs due to a continue war combined with a lost of hope in final victory.

 

- The Black Rage is the Major and oldest aspect of the flaw, since it is stated that legionnaries fall to it before the Horus Heresy. Also, it is explain that the Blood Angels weren't the only one to suffer from this "martyr seeker" states, since some legionnaries of the Raven Guard suffered of it too.

 

- Finally, The Black Rage is the manifestation of both a physical and spiritual mutation that grant to those who fall to it, a part of the raw power they individually possess.

 

 

(More can be added to those facts, but, i thinks it would be enough for now.)

[Xenith]

Well, first of all, we need to divide the Flaw in two great parts : The Red Thirst and The Black Rage.

 

 

 

- The Red Thirst appears to be the Minor and Recent part of the Flaw, because as far as i remember, Sanguinius did not know of the red thirst, but knew very well about the madness of the Black Rage, a fact that lead him to mercifull execute some of his legionnaries. Due to this fact, the Red Thirst is something post Horus Heresy.

 

 

This part is incorrect, however good thoughts, otherwise.

 

The Red thirst is the howling need to feed upon the blood of the living. This reflects in battle as a near insane bloodlust which heightens the martial skill and killing prowess of a space marine. Read the instance of the first time The Angel fought the mutant hordes to protect The Tribe of The Blood. He channels the red thirst there, most assuredly.

 

The red thirst is a cellular degeneration that eventually turns a marine into...something not quite a marine. If it's on the same level as the physical changes observed in the Wulfen, we don't know, but they are locked up in the Tower of Amareo, and hidden from the light.

 

The marine in Fear to Tread has suffered from the red thirst, not the black rage (which is where the marine relives Sanguinius's final hours, which cannot be pre heresy, or known about to Sanguinius). He is an over adrenalined wreck, found with a body, if I remember correctly.

 

The red thirst was always around. Sanguinius can channel it perfectly and uses it to strengthen himself. It is also expressed in Amit, who is bloodthirsty, yet can regain compusure after battle. Basically Amit showd the enhanced signs of the red thirst before they started to develop in the legion en masse.

 

Maybe the psychic presence of Sanguinius subconsciously calmed the legion, and curtailed the worst of their excesses. Maybe The Big E subdued that part of the gene seed, then Ka'Bhanda's attack undid the Emperors efforts, and the red thirst gene was allowed to be expressed

[Arkangilos]

Xenith is right. The Red Thirst was always around, from the beginning of Sanguinius to the end of times. (Blood Angel Codex, 7th Edition, Page 19 [but also in every edition from 2nd foward]).

 

The Black Rage is the post heresy. It is pretty well established that the Black Rage is his final moments. In fact, there was a story somewhere that featured Tycho's fall to the rage, during it Tycho believed he was Sanguinius, and that Lemartes (it was back when Lemartes had total control), was his brother, Dorn. 

 

So those who fall to the Black Rage relive the final battle at Terra, and see their brothers as fellow primarchs and BA.

 

 

 

Now to the original post, the Sanguinary Priests were designed to be the spiritual leaders of the chapters. In fact, before recently, the chaplains were not really engaged in any religious activities. Index Astartes states that Sanguinary Priests took on the full role of Apothecary and Chaplain, but it's been changed a little so that they are both spiritual leaders.

 

The Sanguinary Priests focus on the Red Thirst, and the Chaplains on the Rage. Sanguinius, foresaw all of this and created both branches to combat it. 

 

If it's on the same level as the physical changes observed in the Wulfen, we don't know, 

 

There actually is evidence to support that they do physically transform, but that one piece of evidence also takes place during their stay in the Eye of Terror, so it's impossible to say if it was warp trickery or actual changes. (Blood Quest)

 

+Edited to add sources+

[Karhedron]

That said I want to know more about how the rituals, procedures, or whatever that the Blood Angels and their successors, save for the Blood Drinkers, undergo to suppress the problem. I know that the Chaplains of any chapter minister the spiritual needs of their battle brothers but I read that they also are charged with keeping an eye on their brothers during pre-battle prayer for the onset of the Black Rage. However, I did not read that they did anything to fortify their brother's spirits against the Flaw.

From the 2nd edition codex.

 

 

 

In order to keep the Black Rage in check, on the eve of battle the Blood Angels bend their thoughts to prayer and to the sacrifice of their Primarch so many centuries ago. Chaplains move from man to man, blessing each in turn and noting those amongst the brotherhood whose eyes may appear a little glazed, or whose speech is slurred or over excited. Some, almost all, overcome this ancient intrusion into their minds. All of a warrior's training is directed at controlling it, beating it down into the depths of their being. But for some the imprint of Sanguinius is too strong, the memories too loud and demanding. As the Chaplains chant the moripatris, the mass of doom, the chosen ones fall into the arms of their priests, and are taken away. The afflicted are formed into a special unit called the Death Company.

 

So the Chaplains do have a very specific role in helping their brothers overcome the Black Rage. The purpose of all that prayer is to help the BAs master the flaw.

[Crimson Devil]

Xenith puts it's pretty expertly there. Horus and all of the other Primarchs to an extent looked up to the big S. He was the cool older brother. Graceful, powerful, humble and awesome to behold. Horus is often described lamenting about how he wished he could've turned him over to his cause instead of the more outcast and unstable brothers.

 

So when he finally confronts him aboard the Vengeful Spirit in combat and he refuses I imagine Horus has pretty much the entire rage of Khorne behind him at the situation, so after thier fight Old Sanguinius is left pretty much an empty corpse, even his psychic imprint in the warp probably erased forever.

 

This combined with how close Sanguinius was to his legionnaires is what had such an effect on us.

 

Obviously the Iron Hands also lost thier Primarch, but he was always cold towards his Legion. You were strong or he didn't want to know you, so less of a man of his people as it were. But they have thier own issues...

 

In the Fear to Thread; Horus is revealed to fear Sanguinius. Horus thought if He could be corrupted then Sanguinius could replace him as the champion of Chaos. Hence the trying to kill him instead.

[Arkangilos]

 

Xenith puts it's pretty expertly there. Horus and all of the other Primarchs to an extent looked up to the big S. He was the cool older brother. Graceful, powerful, humble and awesome to behold. Horus is often described lamenting about how he wished he could've turned him over to his cause instead of the more outcast and unstable brothers.

 

So when he finally confronts him aboard the Vengeful Spirit in combat and he refuses I imagine Horus has pretty much the entire rage of Khorne behind him at the situation, so after thier fight Old Sanguinius is left pretty much an empty corpse, even his psychic imprint in the warp probably erased forever.

 

This combined with how close Sanguinius was to his legionnaires is what had such an effect on us.

 

Obviously the Iron Hands also lost thier Primarch, but he was always cold towards his Legion. You were strong or he didn't want to know you, so less of a man of his people as it were. But they have thier own issues...

 

In the Fear to Thread; Horus is revealed to fear Sanguinius. Horus thought if He could be corrupted then Sanguinius could replace him as the champion of Chaos. Hence the trying to kill him instead.

 

In fear to tread, yes. But at the final battle he tried convincing Sanguinius to join him. Sanguinius said no, they fought, he died.