Malakithe Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 I was reading the codex a bit more when I realized I didn't know what the differences are. I noticed they both have run/shoot and both have the vendread rule. It's the deepstrike rules that are different. I'm sure this has been discussed already. DWRF says deathwing assault, come in automatically turn 2+. The DWSF doesn't say anything about turns and such. Only thing it says is if you have a RWAS or RWSF you can choose to pass or fail reserve rolls. Unless I missed something that includes per squad on any turn. No where does it say all units must pop in turn 2+ or something similar. Does that mean, for example, I can drop 2 squads turn 1 then 2 squads turn 2 etc? If not why and where does it say it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Neither version allows you to deep strike on turn one. All units in a Deathwing Redemption Force arrive together on your choice of turn 2, 3 or 4, decided before the game begins. Units in a Deathwing Strike Force obey the normal rules for Deep Strike Reserves, meaning you start rolling for individual units from turn 2. With a Ravenwing Strike Force or Ravenwing Attack Squadron in the army, you can choose to automatically pass or fail those rolls. Both Detachments require every unit in them to start the game in Deep Strike Reserve. This means you automatically lose the game on turn one unless you take something else in your army that starts on the table. It also makes it impossible to take Land Raiders as Dedicated Transports, because they can't be put in Deep Strike Reserve. GW may not have intended either of these things, we're waiting on the FAQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted August 5, 2015 Author Share Posted August 5, 2015 Ahh right I forgot about that. I'm still using the strike force regardless lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Ahh right I forgot about that. I'm still using the strike force regardless lol I'm in agreement with the above things but it's not all bad news, both let you take dreadnaughts in pods and if you do they come on t1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Not on one of them.On the formation, It specifically says the dread will come on turn 2+ with the rest of the army. Of course you can mix formation and detachment to go around that... Or just use Ravenwing to not auto-lose. Currently the detachment is a bit better than the formation to field 100% pure DW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted August 5, 2015 Author Share Posted August 5, 2015 I'm including a bike and support unit anyway just cuz then benefits exceed going full deathwing. 12" deep strike bubble and stupid firepower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanSturrock Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 The other option is to add a CAD with a termie HQ and a couple of scout squads for cheap obsec. I think scouts + termies can be quite effective right now. I know it's not pure deathwing, but I don't see pure deathwing as especially fluffy, anyway, personally, unless you're attacking a Space Hulk. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Another main difference is the obligatory units. The detachment lets you pick anything from the Elites section, so you could run your HQ+Knights straight off the bat. The Formation requires that you bring 2 squads of DWT before you bring anything else. It's sort of dumb because they are almost identical they just use different words to accomplish similar things making it look the rules are any different, but at the core they are effectively the same. Sort of like White Scars having Skilled Rider USR in the form of Born in the Saddle, but not directly being stated they have that rule. Yur typo in the thread topic made me chuckle as they are both so similar they may as well be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted August 5, 2015 Author Share Posted August 5, 2015 I don't do/care about pure deathwing anyway so that's a good idea. Might look at a DW type CAD. I personally think the redemption force was tailored to fit better as auxiliary in a lion's blade. It only has 1 HQ and has 2 squads of normal dw which would fit nicely. But that's formation VS full on detachment so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 I think the key difference between the DWRF and the DWSF is how much better the strike force synergizes with the ravenwing. Being able to pass or fail reserve rolls at will is pretty powerful. On the other hand, the redemption force is great when you don't have RW as you still bypass the need to roll for reserves, just with less control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elios Harg Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Fielding both is almost a requirement for a pure Deathwing list. Strike Force lets you drop dreads turn 1, Red. Force guarantees everything else comes in turn 2. Redemption Force has being part of the lion's blade going for it. So if you take a demi-company and want Deathwing support, they get full BS Overwatch. In concert with a Ravenwing Strike Force or Attack Squadron, the DWSF is far superior as you have more freedom to field what you like and complete control over your reserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath of Bruinen Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Aye, just seconding what others have said - my general rule is: if you're taking ravenwing too, DWSF is better, if not (or it's a Lion's Blade), go with the Redemption Force. And if you only want Deathwing, take both! Simples *meerkat noise* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Note: demi plus DWRF is overwatch at BS3, not full Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elios Harg Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Not true. A Lion's Blade consists of at least one demi-company plus at least one auxiliary plus 0-1 command. All of these parts get supreme fire discipline which is at full BS. A demi-company by itself, not as part of a Lion's Blade, gets fire discipline which is BS3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 Full BS deathwing could be pretty nasty. Most will probably just shoot them to death but still Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Ah my bad, brain fart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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