Elysian demolition

[Shamansky]

A friend of mine suggested that i should use Elysian Drop Troops for my list for next tournament instead of suicide melta SWS. As i'm not used to forge world army lists, i'd like to know what does Demolitions doctrine give to veterans? Melta bombs are clear. But army builder that i use sais that it gives breacher charge instead of democharge. However IA8 states that this doctrine gives demo charge. What is the right option? And how can i get democharge?

[WarriorFish]

Be aware that by FW's own admission the Elysians are not designed to be "competitive" i.e. they're cool but their list can struggle to compete. Have you checked for an FAQ? It may be a case of it being different terminology for the same thing, I'm not that familiar with the Elysian lists unfortunately.

[CoffeeGrunt]

I know that the list in IA3 has Breacher Charges, which are effectively a Basilisk attack with a 6" range. As they're Ordnance, you can't move-and-shoot them, and Elysians themselves only have the advantage of getting Valkyries as Dedicated Transports to make them worth considering. Otherwise they're lacking in big guns and they pay for Deep Strike, which you might not even use. Their prices are also a Codex behind, so many of the upgrades are prohibitively expensive.

 

IMO vanilla Demolitions Charges are much better. You can have an SWS with three of them for dirt cheap, and since they're not Ordnance they can throw them after moving/jumping out of a Vendetta or Valkyrie. They're AP2 as well, so very good for combatting tougher threats if your plasma is dead.

[Shamansky]

Hm... In IA3 2nd edition those breacher charges have following profile: range - special; s8; ap2; melee, one use only, blast (3"), wrecker*

 

*wrecker - reroll penetration rolls against fortifications and add +1 to result on Building damage chart. if building is destroyed it is removed from play.

 

The only useful thing i see is that it is melee. But how the blast weapon is resolved in melee? Weird stuff they smoke in Forge World.

FAQ is really needed here.  

[CoffeeGrunt]

Must have been thinking of something else. I imagine you place the charge in base contact with the model carrying it in that case. 

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

The doctrine upgrades are expensive, while sergeant upgrades are cheaper. As for demolitions, I've never used the breacher charge, only the melta bombs. Elysians can spam valkyries like nobody's business, but they lack big guns, as has been mentioned. The good news is that the Valks are cheaper than the regular codex, but with rocket pods come out about the same. They can't get some of the heavy weapons options that are available to regular Guard, so you don't get autocannons or lascannons, and IIRC you can't put HWT in Platoon infantry squads. That last bit doesn't bother me much, since I don't really use HWT's in my infantry squads. 

 

Using Elysians really needs a shift in strategy and tactical thinking. The whole army needs to be played aggressively, put your HWS in the back, mortars with heavy bolters covering them, while your infantry squads move around to cap objectives, Valk squads should be sent up ahead to cap midfield objectives, or do their specific purpose (melta vets need to get up and kill tanks). Some doctrines work well with certain combinations on vets.

 

Forward Observers - Take full up grenade launchers and a heavy flamer and a heavy bolter team, and put them in cover. They get infiltrate, so you can get them out front to, and the Sarge gets a tracking beacon, so you can deep strike with accuracy. 

 

Demolitions - Take on a full up melta squad, this gives you melta bombs and that breacher charge just in case. Put them in a Valkyrie and make sure they're coming on first turn. 

 

Grenadiers - Take with plasma vets, so they're better protected if/when that plasma explodes. 

 

Heavy flamers can be taken in addition to the special weapons, so it's pretty much an auto include for me, since it's extra protection on overwatch. 

 

Those are just my thoughts, I don't play tournaments, but I think Elysians can be competitive if played correctly. Airborne forces are by nature aggressive, so play them that way.

[Shamansky]

Thanks for your comments. Agressive play style is what i was thinking about because when i was playing defensive gunline my opponent was having the table while i was only reacting. Not the most pleasant feeling.

 

As i have discovered the breacher charge in melee works like simple attack. If the model manages to hit that means the blast goes off in its' position. If to hit roll fails that it scatters. Which is really bad when thing are close and personal. That's why my friend calls breacher charge a shahid belt.