General Discussion

[Demus Ragnok]

Every legion got one as a legion flagship. Or should. Da Bears use The Dragon instead which is unique. Everyone else should have at least one.

[bluntblade]

What ships do we have besides the Dragon that can rival a Gloriana? I believe the Lightning Bearers will have one or two, what with the fabled shipyards of Akira. There's also the matter of who gets the Terminus Est.

[MikhalLeNoir]

The Lightning Bearers have the Thunderchild which their Gloriana-Pattern Flagship. The flagship of raiden athrawes fleet is emperors class.

[Raktra]

Can I just raise my hand and say that I have absolutely no clue about how any ships in 40/30k work.

[Grifftofer]

Well generally Bigger = Better :P And the Glorianas are among the biggest ships ever produced at around 20km long (regular battleships are 8-12km, depending on the source).

[Demus Ragnok]

Can I just raise my hand and say that I have absolutely no clue about how any ships in 40/30k work.

(Places hand reassuringly on Raktras shoulder)

 

Its ok.

[Sigismund229]

What ships do we have besides the Dragon that can rival a Gloriana? I believe the Lightning Bearers will have one or two, what with the fabled shipyards of Akira. There's also the matter of who gets the Terminus Est.

I believe Terminus Est went to the Dune Serpents.

 

As for ships which could stand up to a Gloriana, each Clan of the CL has a Blood Stars pattern battle barge as its flagship. They tend to be around 16-18km in length and everything about them, like most CL ships, is built to get into a boarding action as quickly as possible. Short range wpnry, prow heavy shields etc. Think the Eternal Crusader but Great Crusade scale

Edited September 19, 2016 by Sigismund229

[MikhalLeNoir]

 

What ships do we have besides the Dragon that can rival a Gloriana? I believe the Lightning Bearers will have one or two, what with the fabled shipyards of Akira. There's also the matter of who gets the Terminus Est.

I believe Terminus Est went to the Dune Serpents.

As for ships which could stand up to a Gloriana, each Clan of the CL has a Blood Stars pattern battle barge as its flagship. They tend to be around 16-18km in length and everything about them, like most CL ships, is built to get into a boarding action as quickly as possible. Short range wpnry, prow heavy shields etc. Think the Eternal Crusader but Great Crusade scale

Wouldn't it make more sense to have more small ships who are faster and easier to maneuver for boarding actions?

[Kelborn]

You could also make use of Avenger grand cruisers. Nearly the same purpose.

 

And isn't it a bit too much giving every clan such a huge ship?

[MikhalLeNoir]

How many clans are there?

[Doctor Perils]

 

 

What ships do we have besides the Dragon that can rival a Gloriana? I believe the Lightning Bearers will have one or two, what with the fabled shipyards of Akira. There's also the matter of who gets the Terminus Est.

I believe Terminus Est went to the Dune Serpents.

As for ships which could stand up to a Gloriana, each Clan of the CL has a Blood Stars pattern battle barge as its flagship. They tend to be around 16-18km in length and everything about them, like most CL ships, is built to get into a boarding action as quickly as possible. Short range wpnry, prow heavy shields etc. Think the Eternal Crusader but Great Crusade scale

Wouldn't it make more sense to have more small ships who are faster and easier to maneuver for boarding actions?

 

Larger ships will be able to launch more boarding torpedoes and other boarding craft in a single time

 

 

You could also make use of Avenger grand cruisers. Nearly the same purpose.

 

And isn't it a bit too much giving every clan such a huge ship?

Well, considering that each chapter in 40k has 2-4 battle barges it should be all right no?

[Chief Captain Redd]

Remember the Legions also control most of the ships that end up in the Imperial Navy later on, plus battle barges and the "super heavy" class ships. So it's okay to have big ships.

 

Though keep in mind there is a reason not everyone gets a Dragon of Autumn or Terminus Est and for the legions that do, they are MAJOR features of that legion and they tend to not get that much action because they're sort of an auto win button most of the time unless facing huge odds.

[~Drakzilla~]

Keep in mind that the general consensus of a battle barge is usually only 6-8 km long.

 

I would say having around 12 ships of near-Gloriana size is quite a bit much.

 

Anyways, the Warriors of Peace's flagship is a slightly larger Gloriana named The Mandate of Heaven. I say slightly larger because the Warriors often commit the bulk of their legion to battles, so their main ship needs to accomodate that.

[Grifftofer]

Also we should probably take into account how much crew such a ship would require. Assuming that the crew scales linearly with the ship's size and we use the Fantasy Flight values as correct for a cruiser-sized ship (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Lunar_Cruiser) then a Gloriana-sized ship would require a crew of around 6 million. Even assuming that better technology available in 30K can reduce that by an order of magnitude that is still more than half a million people just to maintain the ship's functions. That is enough manpower for multiple regiments of the Imperial Army.

 

Even in the scale of things in the Warhammer universe such numbers might get slightly silly if we have too many ships of that size.

[bluntblade]

Also, Lion Clans vary so much in size that for several of them it'd be unnecessary to have such a huge ship, and even counterproductive

[Sigismund229]

Also, Lion Clans vary so much in size that for several of them it'd be unnecessary to have such a huge ship, and even counterproductive

At this point in time yes some of them are very small but they weren't always like that. That's just what the present Myrvallen's leadership and the fortunes of war have led them to. So they'll still have it even if they prefer smaller ships given that one Blood Stars class Battle Barge can carry their entire clan(which reminds me I really need to redo their numbers to fit the CL's enhanced nunbers).

 

And bear in mind for several of these to serve in the same theatre is rare. They serve as the flagship of the Myrvallen and so most of the time will be serving all across the various expeditions the CL are committed to or will be used as displays of raw power if the Myrvallen wants to impress.

[Chief Captain Redd]

A ship to move vast numbers Astartes would be insanely huge, like Phalanx huge. Most battle barges/Emperor class ships only comfortably hold 300-500 Astartes and their required supplies at most, a Gloriana maybe a couple chapters worth.

[Demus Ragnok]

Um Ferrum of the Iron Hands was a "mid sized strike cruiser" and it carried 10 companies of Morlocks to Istvann.

 

That's 1000 dudes plus crew.

[bluntblade]

I'd say that regarding the Lions, a few Clans might swap. If nothing else, it helps to distinguish them if some of the outrider Clans are rolling a bunch of smaller sloops and strike cruisers rather than full-on battle barges. And there's much less hassle in keeping those in optimal condition Edited September 20, 2016 by bluntblade

[Chief Captain Redd]

Um Ferrum of the Iron Hands was a "mid sized strike cruiser" and it carried 10 companies of Morlocks to Istvann.

 

That's 1000 dudes plus crew.

Wasn't Istvann a quick deployment though not a more typical continual crusade?

[Demus Ragnok]

 

Um Ferrum of the Iron Hands was a "mid sized strike cruiser" and it carried 10 companies of Morlocks to Istvann.

That's 1000 dudes plus crew.

Wasn't Istvann a quick deployment though not a more typical continual crusade?

Well i suppose so.

[Chief Captain Redd]

 

 

Um Ferrum of the Iron Hands was a "mid sized strike cruiser" and it carried 10 companies of Morlocks to Istvann.

That's 1000 dudes plus crew.

Wasn't Istvann a quick deployment though not a more typical continual crusade?

Well i suppose so.

So I'm not saying a ship couldn't handle more but any prolonged tours Astartes need a lot of space for gear, workshops, med bays, mess halls, armouries, support quarters, ship weapon ammo etc...

The Dragon of Autumn is currently our largest in BotLverse ship at over 40km long and having two hulls (one prow) and a ridiculous tonnage of armour. But she still "only" houses 13,000≈ Astartes, 80,000 Daughters, 5,000 Ogryn, and a crew of about a 1.5 million crew and serfs when in prolonged engagements. I'm not arguing anyone shouldn't have big fething ships, I have the Dragon, a Gloriana, and 3 leviathans which while less than have little more than half the length of a Gloriana probably weigh twice as much from armour. It's just that they should have more secondary ships for deployment. The Imperial Fists have the Phalanx which is moon sized and then the biggest fleet in the Imperium for example.and cramming all Astartes on one ship is a bad idea. That's all.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Wasn't it said earlier that you need 6 million crewmembers to h andle a gloriana? So how come the dragon need only 1,5 milliom when it should be 12 million.?

[bluntblade]

Can we find some concrete numbers for that? 6 million seems prohibitively costly in terms of resources

[AlphariusOmegon108]

 

What ships do we have besides the Dragon that can rival a Gloriana? I believe the Lightning Bearers will have one or two, what with the fabled shipyards of Akira. There's also the matter of who gets the Terminus Est.

I believe Terminus Est went to the Dune Serpents.

 

As for ships which could stand up to a Gloriana, each Clan of the CL has a Blood Stars pattern battle barge as its flagship. They tend to be around 16-18km in length and everything about them, like most CL ships, is built to get into a boarding action as quickly as possible. Short range wpnry, prow heavy shields etc. Think the Eternal Crusader but Great Crusade scale

 

 

I am sorry, but this is WAY to much. that is 12-almost gloriana's. No legion should be able to do that. Look with two HUGE ships (like the red comet and the Tira-To) thats okay, but more than 10? That is outright rediculous.