General Discussion

[Kelborn]

Well I started to create a greater timeline, remember?

with it as a basement, one could create such an overview

[bluntblade]

Actually, let's give those guys a little one of their own. Also, the example Lightning Bearer should definitely have a volkite, and the Crimson Lion a breacher shield. Plus if someone could Paint/Photoshop a plain black visor onto the Scion that'd be neat Edited September 21, 2016 by bluntblade

[MikhalLeNoir]

So a timeline for everyone. Only insurrection or shall we add the great.crusade too? Maybe the great crusade change the scale..so where inthe i surrection it is 1 year in the great cruaade it is 20 years. And we can make a general.overview pic so that everybody knows wjen tgey tackle their timeline that they have a better overview when creating their stories.

[bluntblade]

I say split the Crusade and Insurrection, as the Insurrection will pack a lot into a shorter timeframe. I'll make a start shortly

Edited September 22, 2016 by bluntblade

[bluntblade]

Actually, I'm not sure what scale we should use for the Crusade timeline. How long did it take to conquer the Sol System in canon?

[Kelborn]

Might be a stupid question but is it worth it to order Forge Worlds Crusade Imperialis - Army List if I'm not a player?

 

It covers all general units and their rules, right? Think that it would make it a bit easier for me to work on my Legion without scrolling through six pdf files just to find the "normal" units.

[Doctor Perils]

Just a note about timelines: wikis have some possibilities of integrating interactive timelines - I don't know exactly the manipulations, but it is possible.

 

Same with interactive maps :)

[Grifftofer]

I'm in a rule writing mood at the moment everyone. So if you have any ideas for units/characters/wargear/RoWs that need some non-fluff work please tell me. I won't even charge a commission :P

[bluntblade]

Maybe you could adapt Khârn from his canon incarnation to his compassionate, somewhat less angry Shepherd/Knight Errant form? We have him wielding a waveblade axe, but I don't think anything else is bolted down.

[bluntblade]

The Dune Serpents' elites may have rules (I forget) but Squig and I definitely haven't devised any for the leaders of those elites yet.

[Raktra]

I'm still not happy with Raktra's rules. Wanna whack at 'em?

[Chief Captain Redd]

Where are they (Raktra's rules) Raktra? I'd love to take a look.

[Grifftofer]

Maybe you could adapt Khârn from his canon incarnation to his compassionate, somewhat less angry Shepherd/Knight Errant form? We have him wielding a waveblade axe, but I don't think anything else is bolted down.

 

The Dune Serpents' elites may have rules (I forget) but Squig and I definitely haven't devised any for the leaders of those elites yet.

 

I'm still not happy with Raktra's rules. Wanna whack at 'em?

Any particular things you think I should be focusing on? Or things you think need to be included? Or (in Raktra's case) what aren't you happy with?

[Raktra]

I'll dig 'em out in a couple of hours, I'm just about to finish my lunch break.

[Grifftofer]

Page 6 of the Primarchs and Legion rules thread seems to be the most recent set (at least as far as I have found so far).

[simison]

Could you also post Koschei's rules in the Book 1 thread? My free time seems to have taken a hit this week.

 

Also, I played another legion game yesterday. It was a against a brand new 40k player who had migrated from Warmachine, so I stuck to the Blood Angels. And promptly stomped him. I felt bad because he was playing a 40k Mechanicum list (combo of Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus), and I didn't know what advice I could give him to strengthen his list.

 

I had a Praetor with JP, 2 assault squads with apothecaries, two Veteran Tac squads, a Predator Strike Squadron (2 tanks), and a heavy support squad with lascannons. With a Knight Warden on the top.

 

I....I'm not sure what the names of his units were, for the most part. He had two Sicaran squads, one shooty & one melee, outflank. Two [ranger] squads? One with plasma, the other with a small anti-tank weapon with haywire. A sniper squad with armourbane rifles. Culexus assassin. And a Baymax-bot unit, 4 Baymaxes, 1 Tech-priest, and two mini-tech priests(?). I knew that last unit alone costed 700 points. 

 

Thoughts?

[Grifftofer]

Unfortunately I have basically no experience of the new Mechanicum/Skitarii codices. I will say that your list doesn't look particularly dirty though. And if he put 700 points into one unit he was probably always going to be at a disadvantage, putting so much in one place means that they have to perform or they will never be worth it. Its actually a similar issue for Primarchs, they cost enough that unless they are doing their thing they won't do enough damage to have been worth taking.

The Dune Serpents' elites may have rules (I forget) but Squig and I definitely haven't devised any for the leaders of those elites yet.

Ok. So I had a bit of a browse through the Serpents' thread and found one character who caught my interest:

Zulfik Fal'uak
The Dervish, Legion Champion
WS7; BS4; S4; T4; W3; I5; A5; LD10; Sv2+
Cost: 170pts

Unit Composition

• 1 (unique)

​Unit Type

• Infantry (Character)

Wargear

• Artificer Armour
• Su'en
• Volkite Serpenta
• Frag & Krak grenades
• Refractor Field

​Special Rules

• Legiones Astartes (Dune Serpents)
• Independent Character
• Uncompromising

Warlord Trait

• Paragon of Glory

Su'en: SUser; AP3; Melee, Duellist Edge, Master Parry

Master Parry: When in a challenge may reduce his attacks by 1 to increase his invulnerable save by 1 (max of 3+).
Uncompromising: Whenever an opponent rolls a 1 when rolling to-hit Zulfik, in close combat, they immediately suffer a S4, AP- hit.

I basically made him pretty much a pure beat-stick character. He doesn't lead all that well or buff the army at all, but in combat (especially in a challenge) he becomes pretty awesome.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Grifftofer

[Raktra]

Page 6 of the Primarchs and Legion rules thread seems to be the most recent set (at least as far as I have found so far).

Aye, I think that's the newest.

[Grifftofer]

Ok. Had a bit of a play with Raktra too. Not too many changes, but they felt in keeping with parts of his personality to me, if not necessarily the ones you want to focus on Raktra.

 

The Primarch Raktra Akarro
The White Devil, Berserkerkin, Skyhunter
WS8; BS5; S7; T6; W6; I6; A5; LD10; Sv2+
Cost: TBD

Unit Composition

• 1 (unique)

​Unit Type

• Infantry (Character)

Wargear

• The Behemoth Cuirass

• Sorrow's Edge

• Heartworm

• Frag grenades

• Impact Thrusters

​Special Rules

• Primarch

• Sire of the Berserkers of Uran

• Skyhunter

• Very Bulky

• Preferred Enemy

 

The Behemoth Cuirass: 2+/4++. Hammer of Wrath attacks are made at AP2.
Heartworm: 12”; S6; AP3; Pistol 2
Sorrow's Edge: S+1; AP2; Melee, Vicious, Specialist Weapon [+Two-Handed, Reaping Blow, Sunder]

 

Sire of the Berserkers: Raktra ignores enemy FNP rolls in close combat. When models with LA(BoU) outnumber their opponents in melee they gain Preferred Enemy.
Skyhunter: Gains the Vector Strike special rule (in spite of not being a Flyer/FMC).

Vicious: On a to-Wound roll of 6+, an unsaved wound from this weapon becomes 2 wounds.

 

 

In this version of him I tried to focus more on his prison upbringing and 'weakness vision' (Preferred Enemy) than his anti-flyers thing. Having seen the two models I wanted to show that he can wield his weapon in either one or two hands. If he does 2 handed then he strikes at -1I, but gains an extra attack if in base contact with 2+ enemies. This also felt like how he would use the weapon vs vehicles so I added Sunder into this second 'profile'. I also changed the name, because I'm really not a fan of Grinder, it just didn't feel very evocative to me given the names of some of the other weapons in the Insurrection/Heresy.

 

The upgrade to his HoW and the change to Skyhunter were a one led into the other situation. I wanted him to still be able to strike hard at flyers/FMCs, but felt that the army-wide rule didn't fit with his character so much. I know that Vector Strike is intended for FMCs/flyers but Raktra using his impact thrusters to slam into things as he runs past them felt in keeping with him. And a rocket powered Primarch should be able to leap with enough force to slap planes and winged beasts out of the skies. This then led into me thinking that if he can slam things at S7, AP2 when running, why would his HoW be worse than that, so it became AP2 as well.

 

Like Angron I feel as though Raktra should give only limited buffs to his army as he is not so much of a general as many other Primarchs. So I thought that restricted access to a special rule would be pretty in keeping. I went with Preferred enemy to represent the Berserkers becoming even more brutal and taking advantage of the opening left by them outnumbering their opponents, but I could easily be convinced that something like Rending would be a viable option too. As they take advantage to slip blades into the gaps between armour plates.

[bluntblade]

Well, Rampage and Marked by Dark Fates don't really fit our Khârn, and Legacy of Blood doesn't apply in a galaxy where there's no Gorechild (but then he has his Waveblade Daybringer, so that's no issue). Edited September 22, 2016 by bluntblade

[MikhalLeNoir]

Grifft, I like your rules, they seem to fit perfectly to Raktra. Evil beast of destruction^^

[Raktra]

Ok. Had a bit of a play with Raktra too. Not too many changes, but they felt in keeping with parts of his personality to me, if not necessarily the ones you want to focus on Raktra.

 

The Primarch Raktra Akarro

The White Devil, Berserkerkin, Skyhunter

WS8; BS5; S7; T6; W6; I6; A5; LD10; Sv2+

Cost: TBD

 

Unit Composition

• 1 (unique)

​Unit Type

• Infantry (Character)

Wargear

• The Behemoth Cuirass

• Sorrow's Edge

• Heartworm

• Frag grenades

• Impact Thrusters

​Special Rules

• Primarch

• Sire of the Berserkers of Uran

• Skyhunter

• Very Bulky

• Preferred Enemy

 

The Behemoth Cuirass: 2+/4++. Hammer of Wrath attacks are made at AP2.

Heartworm: 12”; S6; AP3; Pistol 2

Sorrow's Edge: S+1; AP2; Melee, Vicious, Specialist Weapon [+Two-Handed, Reaping Blow, Sunder]

 

Sire of the Berserkers: Raktra ignores enemy FNP rolls in close combat. When models with LA(BoU) outnumber their opponents in melee they gain Preferred Enemy.

Skyhunter: Gains the Vector Strike special rule (in spite of not being a Flyer/FMC).

Vicious: On a to-Wound roll of 6+, an unsaved wound from this weapon becomes 2 wounds.

 

 

In this version of him I tried to focus more on his prison upbringing and 'weakness vision' (Preferred Enemy) than his anti-flyers thing. Having seen the two models I wanted to show that he can wield his weapon in either one or two hands. If he does 2 handed then he strikes at -1I, but gains an extra attack if in base contact with 2+ enemies. This also felt like how he would use the weapon vs vehicles so I added Sunder into this second 'profile'. I also changed the name, because I'm really not a fan of Grinder, it just didn't feel very evocative to me given the names of some of the other weapons in the Insurrection/Heresy.

 

The upgrade to his HoW and the change to Skyhunter were a one led into the other situation. I wanted him to still be able to strike hard at flyers/FMCs, but felt that the army-wide rule didn't fit with his character so much. I know that Vector Strike is intended for FMCs/flyers but Raktra using his impact thrusters to slam into things as he runs past them felt in keeping with him. And a rocket powered Primarch should be able to leap with enough force to slap planes and winged beasts out of the skies. This then led into me thinking that if he can slam things at S7, AP2 when running, why would his HoW be worse than that, so it became AP2 as well.

 

Like Angron I feel as though Raktra should give only limited buffs to his army as he is not so much of a general as many other Primarchs. So I thought that restricted access to a special rule would be pretty in keeping. I went with Preferred enemy to represent the Berserkers becoming even more brutal and taking advantage of the opening left by them outnumbering their opponents, but I could easily be convinced that something like Rending would be a viable option too. As they take advantage to slip blades into the gaps between armour plates.

I like it! Admittedly not an enormous fan of the name change on the sword, but that's a whole 'nother thing :) The only thing I'd possibly change is how the Sire rule kicks in, although I dunno what to change it to. Mainly to differentiate it from a Night Lords thing. But otherwise, :cuss yeah man, this feels right to me! Almost feel like he could take a decent crack at Guilliman/Horus now.

[bluntblade]

Does the chain still factor in as a weapon of sorts?

 

As for the Serpents elite leaders, Zulfiq Fal'uak is meant to be like a Palatine Blade only his men don't announce themselves - in the fluff they mingle with a regular Serpents formation and strike suddenly at enemy champions and commanders. So he's an excellent duelist, but specialises in sudden, debilitating strikes.

 

Kalhu Nachash on the other hand leads their assault elite, but with an emphasis on establishing footholds. So, whatever makes him and his forces good at holding objectives would be suitable

[Nomus Sardauk]

I say keep the name as the Grinder, it's short & sweet, straight to the point, does what it says on the tin and personally I don't see Raktra giving it a fancy, meaningful name like other Primarchs might with theirs, it's a instrument of wanton slaughter, not a work of art.

[Grifftofer]

Well, Rampage and Marked by Dark Fates don't really fit our Khârn, and Legacy of Blood doesn't apply in a galaxy where there's no Gorechild (but then he has his Waveblade Daybringer, so that's no issue).

Honestly my thoughts on Insurrection Khârn keep returning to shuffling some bits around on Garro. Probably +1WS, -1Ld and then some renamed equipment and he'd be pretty good. He'd then be Praetor tier in terms of fighting, but not as charismatic of a leader. Not sure how that would fit with your interpretation though.

 

SNIP

I like it! Admittedly not an enormous fan of the name change on the sword, but that's a whole 'nother thing The only thing I'd possibly change is how the Sire rule kicks in, although I dunno what to change it to. Mainly to differentiate it from a Night Lords thing. But otherwise, yeah man, this feels right to me! Almost feel like he could take a decent crack at Guilliman/Horus now.

Well I will happily admit that I am not the best namer of things, but I wanted to mention my 'meh' feelings towards Grinder as a name. If you stick with it that's entirely up to you :) I'm not too sure how else to limit the Sire rule that feels right. I mean you could have it activate off of a characteristic test (probably Ld as they coordinate to set up the killing strikes), but I'm not sure that would fit any better. Not sure if this will tip you towards or against the rule as written, but the Night Lords are not the only Legion to use such a mechanic as the Sons of Horus have a similar one.

 

.... Maybe it could be a first round of combat only thing? Them trying to take down their opponents as quickly and brutally as possible until their foes gain their measure and can 'counter' it, to an extent. In any case I'll think on it some more and see if something better comes to mind.