MikhalLeNoir Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 EVERYTHING IS AT DOUBT!!!! Waaahhhhh where is my corner....hey...the strange guys in the corner vanished!!! Now I am alone :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted November 28, 2016 Author Share Posted November 28, 2016 There are several ways in which this doesn't affect us. As I've said before, our canon is an odd mishmash of several different editions of 40k. The term I've used to describe this is 1.5, but perhaps 2.5 would be more accurate. Regardless of the name, this idea has been shown a couple of different ways. The Emperor has been more upfront about daemons and Chaos, but he has still hidden the Chaos deities. This is a cross between his near-total ban on Warp shenanigans and his complete honesty of the earlier editions. Another example I intend to implement this style is with the Tau. When they were first introduced, they were actually a noble and bright faction with the GrimDark factor due to their situation. There were this bright star of hope and goodness utterly surrounded by this sea of enemies who could squash them with but a thought. This changed in later editions as the Ethereals were given a much shadier character, the sterilization practices came about, and so on. I intend to dial it back to the halfway point between the two interpretations. Besides that, this is another Black Library book. As Blunt pointed out, that means there are several different interpretations that could be read into the Emperor's words. We know how BL works with its fluid canon. On a third level, this is AD-B we're talking about. From my understanding, he typically places the Emperor in a harsh light, perhaps the harshest light possible, whenever he writes him. So, on this level, I could simply counter that I believe his interpretation is flawed based on potential biases or characterization, and my interpretation is the one this project is based on. Hence, my version of the Emperor is the true one for BotL, and AD-B's Emperor exists in a different universe. All this to say is that Master of Mankind has as much impact on our canon as we allow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomus Sardauk Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 I vote we keep our characterisation of the Big E, whenever someone writes a fan work of any kind they should be fully aware and accepting of the fact that at any time the original creator (GW) may write or retcon something that completely screws your work, it's an inherent risk of the job, and besides, the nature of alternate universes easily permits such a small change in attitude. Kelborn 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted November 28, 2016 Author Share Posted November 28, 2016 Heck, I'm reading through both threads on MoM, and even AD-B is explicitly mentioning how he's going with Icarion's aura, people hear the Emperor the way they want to hear him. Which means this book could be a really useful source for writing Icarion, but it says even less about the Emperor's true character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Drakzilla~ Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 From what it sounds like, it seems that MoM's portrayal of the Emperor and his attitude toward his sons lines up exactly with how Jade views his father and their relationship. So whatever direction we go in, I'm fine with it. simison 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomus Sardauk Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Which means this book could be a really useful source for writing Icarion, but it says even less about the Emperor's true character. Oooh, good point Sim! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted November 28, 2016 Author Share Posted November 28, 2016 From what it sounds like, it seems that MoM's portrayal of the Emperor and his attitude toward his sons lines up exactly with how Jade views his father and their relationship. So whatever direction we go in, I'm fine with it. That's a good point. Double bonus for our Primarchs. You and I should buy the book then. Which means this book could be a really useful source for writing Icarion, but it says even less about the Emperor's true character. Oooh, good point Sim! Thank you, I've kept reading the thread, and the book's biggest defenders seem to subscribe in the 'Chaos wins' ending for 40k. Throw in all of the ethical and philosophical clashes, and it's proven harder to read than I expected. It's interesting because the book seems to be implying that a certain weapon of lore has the power to end the Emperor alone and that the Emperor never stood a chance. If true, then I wholeheartedly will take this tidbit of lore and throw it out the metaphorical window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 I personally reckon that each Primarch/Legion should have their own view of the Emperor that is a bit of truth and untruth, so when they're all mashed together we each end up with our own rough outline of how we view "our" Emperor. He's supposed to be god-like, there shouldn't be a clear interpretation of him, it defeats the purpose. Also ditto on the super-weapon thing, for similar reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 From what it sounds like, it seems that MoM's portrayal of the Emperor and his attitude toward his sons lines up exactly with how Jade views his father and their relationship. So whatever direction we go in, I'm fine with it. And lest we forget, AD-B has only written the big guy from the point of view of traitors. He's emphasised that on more than one occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonair Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 On a slightly different topic, I've started writing actual stories for the Abyssii, and was just wondering, which Horus Heresy major characters are still canon in BotL (other than the big E obviously) simison 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted November 28, 2016 Author Share Posted November 28, 2016 I don't think we've outright eliminated any canon characters. They've died at different times, but that's the most I can think of. Is there anyone you were specifically curious about? Also, why did I have to open my big mouth in the MoM thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Captain Redd Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Pretty much everyone in some capacity, though they tend to fill very different roles as far as the Astartes go. Just like the HH there are a lot of various story arcs and plots happening at once, if you have any specific questions I've got notes for virtually everything within the last like four days or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 I don't think we've outright eliminated any canon characters. They've died at different times, but that's the most I can think of. Is there anyone you were specifically curious about? Also, why did I have to open my big mouth in the MoM thread. You should have stayed out of it. Pure toxic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonair Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 That more or less answers my questions, however the ones I am most interested in are Kelbor-Hal (and pretty much any other Mechanicum character), possibly Malcador, and anyone who it would be expected for Mortera to meet with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted November 29, 2016 Author Share Posted November 29, 2016 I don't think we've outright eliminated any canon characters. They've died at different times, but that's the most I can think of. Is there anyone you were specifically curious about? Also, why did I have to open my big mouth in the MoM thread. You should have stayed out of it. Pure toxic. Bah! I was doing fine, until I saw them ganging up on Darth. The man could soften his punches, but they were valid points. And I'm really annoyed with the whole 'Chaos will win' arguments I was seeing. Good gravy, what about the Tyranids? The Orks? There are several different ways for the End Times to go. Anyway, Kane should be another major figure Mortera meets, along with Zeth and Maximal. Locum Kane will become the next Fabricator-General after Hal defects. If Mortera is to become Fabricator-General after Kane, we'll have to figure out what happens to Kane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonair Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Does the Dark Mechanicum not win the Schism in the Lost-verse? In any case, perhaps Kane gets assassinated if he is loyal. Hell, if the opportunity arose during the chaos and confusion of the Schism, or at some other time Mortera would not be above killing or having Kane killed herself to secure her position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted November 29, 2016 Author Share Posted November 29, 2016 Does the Dark Mechanicum not win the Schism in the Lost-verse? In any case, perhaps Kane gets assassinated if he is loyal. Hell, if the opportunity arose during the chaos and confusion of the Schism, or at some other time Mortera would not be above killing or having Kane killed herself to secure her position Well, that got dark real quick. No, Alex personally intervenes into the Martian Civil War after he secures Terra. Maximal still dies, Mars is wrecked, but he's able to intervene in time to save Kane and Zeth. From there, the Dark Mechanicum is eventually ripped off of Mars. I'm not sure if we decided Hal escapes or not, but Mars is secured by the Loyalists. I think it might be wiser if Mortera uses Hal's betrayal to set herself up to be Kane's Locum/Deputy of Mars at the start. Then as the Insurrection wears on, she spots an opportunity to rid of Kane and becomes the new Fabricator-General...maybe. That would put her next to the Warmaster, who can read minds. Has Mortera always been this bloodthirsty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonair Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Not bloodthirsty per se, just unrelentingly ambitious, like any good Archmagos. And as for the Warmaster, mental partitions, some memory scrubbing and the like could help with that. Mikhal and I have actually agreed that the Abyssii study Gwal's Pariah-suppressing mask, so it stands to reason from that she'd learn a great deal about how to suppress etc various psychic phenomena. Plus I believe mind reading in 40k has long been established as a battle of wills and minds, and Mortera is certainly not lacking in either department MikhalLeNoir 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 What do we want to happen to Kelbor-Hal after the Schism? Does Icarion allow him to limp along until he is supplanted, or will it be a classic You Have Failed Me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Not bloodthirsty per se, just unrelentingly ambitious, like any good Archmagos. And as for the Warmaster, mental partitions, some memory scrubbing and the like could help with that. Mikhal and I have actually agreed that the Abyssii study Gwal's Pariah-suppressing mask, so it stands to reason from that she'd learn a great deal about how to suppress etc various psychic phenomena. Plus I believe mind reading in 40k has long been established as a battle of wills and minds, and Mortera is certainly not lacking in either department Hah, so that was the reason morthera wants to study it in the first place^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonair Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 If there are no objections I'd like someone from the Abyssii to take Hal down, maybe not Mortera herself. Could be Ariana, have Hal killed when his ship is intercepted as he tries to escape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 (edited) I don't think we've outright eliminated any canon characters. They've died at different times, but that's the most I can think of. Is there anyone you were specifically curious about? Also, why did I have to open my big mouth in the MoM thread. You should have stayed out of it. Pure toxic.Yeah, such a discussion is no fun at all. Pure speculations as each and everyone of us has his or her own expectations and ways of interpretation. Heck, Big E could get resurrected in the end and do a Odin-ish Ragnarök. With the small hints towards the Legion of the Damned in MoM and "good demons" in ToH, all those who have fallen could come back as ghosts and fight against the demons. Just like AoS. Gathered in the LotD, they could swarm against Abby's 13th Crusade. Eternal Astartes led by Ferrus or Sanguinius against eternal demons. And if havent even considered the Xenos factions! Edited November 29, 2016 by Kelborn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 (edited) That origin is far more cooler than the fire hawks explanation. But the use of valdor as assassin? That contradicts a bit with my personal view of the custodes and really? He sneaked her up in power armor? She must have a very deep sleep^^ Edited November 29, 2016 by MikhalLeNoir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonair Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Not bloodthirsty per se, just unrelentingly ambitious, like any good Archmagos. And as for the Warmaster, mental partitions, some memory scrubbing and the like could help with that. Mikhal and I have actually agreed that the Abyssii study Gwal's Pariah-suppressing mask, so it stands to reason from that she'd learn a great deal about how to suppress etc various psychic phenomena. Plus I believe mind reading in 40k has long been established as a battle of wills and minds, and Mortera is certainly not lacking in either department Hah, so that was the reason morthera wants to study it in the first place^^ That certainly could be a reason, yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 We could implement it into their first meeting. So that morthera gets interested. Talonair 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts