General Discussion

[Demus Ragnok]

You could use the Eldar soul stone and then get the Iron. Bears/Niklaas to build a construct to house it.

 

Eisenhorn had that one guys soul in one didn't he. In a stone in a box that talked. Then the mangos built him a mechanical body that was totally awesome and OP.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Demus Ragnok

[Slips]

You could use the Eldar soul stone and then get the Iron. Bears/Niklaas to build a construct to house it.

 

Eisenhorn had that one guys soul in one didn't he. In a stone in a box that talked. Then the mangos built him a mechanical body that was totally awesome and OP.

Yeah, Pontius Glaw. But that was mostly due to either Chaos Shenanigans or Archeotech of the Highest order.

 

Thing about the Eldar Soulstone is the easiest way to incorporate them into a structure would be with Wraithbone since it was purpose made. It also regenerates unlike your typical Mechanical Stuff.

[Doctor Perils]

I was really leaning in the same direction as sigismund on this one, until you said that it was to have a contemptor kind of shape. Now that's something that could work.

 

Also it could be a small faction of the cult mechanicum that build it for Pionus: the Hospitallers promise them a small forge kingdom of several systems directly tithed to this faction, as long as they take every possible measure to save the Primarch. This Mechanicum faction only find Eldar tech to save him, so they use that, unbeknownst to the Hospitallers and Pionus himself.

 

Decades/centuries/millenia later, the Imperium discovers that this mech-faction is using xeno-tech and launch a crusade against them, and so the Hospitallers have to do everything to cover up the fact that their primarch is still "alive" because of them. And Pionus is slowly becoming mad because of the voices that he constantly hears in his head that seemingly come from nowhere... That could be the campaign where Pionus and Morro face off ?

[MikhalLeNoir]

I was really leaning in the same direction as sigismund on this one, until you said that it was to have a contemptor kind of shape. Now that's something that could work.

 

Also it could be a small faction of the cult mechanicum that build it for Pionus: the Hospitallers promise them a small forge kingdom of several systems directly tithed to this faction, as long as they take every possible measure to save the Primarch. This Mechanicum faction only find Eldar tech to save him, so they use that, unbeknownst to the Hospitallers and Pionus himself.

 

Decades/centuries/millenia later, the Imperium discovers that this mech-faction is using xeno-tech and launch a crusade against them, and so the Hospitallers have to do everything to cover up the fact that their primarch is still "alive" because of them. And Pionus is slowly becoming mad because of the voices that he constantly hears in his head that seemingly come from nowhere... That could be the campaign where Pionus and Morro face off ?

My favourite attempt so far. Great for story telling measures. The madness is a good idea. Listening for thousans years to vpices in your had could drive even a primarch insane.

[Sigismund229]

Oh you want him to have a contemptor like body? I thought you wanted to go full on eldar style wraithknight. I could see the other legions putting up with or even being thankfull that one of the primarchs was kept alive as it might guve them hope for their own primarchs.

Also, when the fact that it's Eldar comes out, perhaps that could set the scene for a civil war among the Hospitallers?

[MikhalLeNoir]

Among? Against. They are all heretics. They habe to be wiped out. (Damn...since when is an inquisitor from the ordo xenos in my head?)

[Hesh Kadesh]

Given Pionus' nature, I struggle to see where that 'Civil War' within the Scions would happen. Pionus, despite his hatred of Eldar was practical but also progressive. They will have seen their Primarch killed/crippled, and in an Avatar moment (sorry, went there) he finds himself merged body and soul into Wraithbone which is then armoured in Ceramite in an attempt to survive long enough against a now final formed Morro, who once considered pionus to be his closest brother.

 

The irony of one being operated on by Rakarth and turning into a Daemon of Horror as his soul was unwittingly sacrificed to Slaanesh in an attempt to stave off the death of the Eldar race and slaanesh'hunger, only to see the Eldar try to 'sacrifice' Pionus despite appearing as friends, and throwing him into combat against Daemon Morro and either send Morro into oblivion, and become one with Slaanesh, or fail and have his own soul given to Slaanesh instead. Tricksy elves

 

Plus tentacle godzilla and wraithbone king kong duking it out underwater? :cuss yeah

[MikhalLeNoir]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lT3JPrgM8_0/UIWEHQJB4WI/AAAAAAAACCg/DHsgkcmm-oA/s1600/cthulhu_vs_king_kong.jpg

 

This will be so awesome

[Sigismund229]

I was thinking of the civil war among the Hospitallers could occur when the rest of the Imperium finds out that Pionius' dread is made using Eldar tech. There could be one group who hold true to the Imperium and are disgusted by it and want to punsih the mechanicum who did it and cover the whole thing up and then the other group who stand by the mechanicum for saving their primarch

[Raktra]

Maybe this is how we end up with our version of the Codex Astartes.

[Slips]

My legion sure as hell wont be responsible for a worthless book!

 

Civil war among the Legion seems highly unlikely due to the nature of the Primarch. Even if they find out Eldar tech was Used, theyd be like:

 

Primarch still alive > Tech Heresy > Legion Imploding and crushing the Primarchs Dream.

 

If anything theyd go after the Admech dudes who made the suit because they straight-up lied to their faces.

[Skalpynock]

Maybe this is how we end up with our version of the Codex Astartes.

Funnily enough, I was musing about the Codex while attempting a timeline of the Revolution, I ended up with Kozja theorizing the basis for more efficient (if ritualized) Astartes indoctrination (which takes a decade as opposed to the crusade-time single year), owing to Grabiya's theorem being unusable now that most loyalist primarchs are dead. Meanwhile, the General writes treatises on low-number warfare, and the use of Astartes as an elite force rather than a whole army in itself, which became increasingly unworkable as the Legions were decimated beyond recovery to pre-Insurrection effective.

 

Now the question is: "How the hell does it manage to make its way into the Imperium, assuming the secession continues after the Insurrection?"

Perhaps as a gift for peace, perhaps as a warrant of relative independence, perhaps as tomes recovered during the scouring of the Oneiron Cluster?

[MikhalLeNoir]

Well didn't the whole imperial belief foots on lorgars books? So it could be that kozjas works reached the empure and wer dismissed until the end of the crusade/insurrection or when there is time to use it

[Slips]

While making WraithNought Pionus a Monstrous Creature is more or less a forgone conclusion for me at this point, what about pushing it to Gargantuan without Access to Stomps?

 

Too OP? At this stage, sure its pretty up in the air since theres no Stats or Special Rules to  base this Decision off of but would it make sense?

[Chief Captain Redd]

I say go for it, as I was picturing him Knight sized anyway.

[Slips]

First Draft: (I've literally given this no thought)

 

Pionus Santor      700pts

The Undying, The Everliving Son, The Leviathan

 

Having somehow survived his fateful encounter with his closest Fallen Brother, Morro, the Scions Hospitalier used all their influence and power at their disposal to look for a way to restore their Gene-Father or at least keep him among the living.

 

It is through secret, hidden and means obfuscated beyond all measure that the adepts of a branch of the Mechanicum were able to produce a "Body" for Pionus to inhabit. The Price, however, was the abandonment of his flesh and blood and to transfer his essence, consciousness and ultimately, his soul into the construct that would save him.

 

Whilst the ingenuity and technological mastery of the Mechanicum wrought a body for the Primarch, it was through the combined efforts of the finest artisans of the Iron Bears and Crimson Lions, Niklaas among them, that his new form was bedecked in the finest armor the Imperium has seen short of the Emperor's own Warplate.

 

It was with great chagrin that the unanimous decision was made among the Primarchs closest advisers to go through with the procedure; placing more value on their Primarch being among them and the living than consigning what little spark of life remained in his mortal shell to death.

 

 

WS  BS  S  T  W  I  A  LD  Sv

  8    5  10  9  8  6  6  10   2+ 

 

Unit Composition: 1 (unique)

Unit Type: Gargantuan Monstrous Creature

 

Wargear:

• The Lion & Bear
• The Atlantean Cerement
• Soul Gazer
• The Silent Scream
• Grenade Harness (unlimited)

The Lion & Bear: A pair of masterfully wrought Power Talons, the Bear & Lion bear the names of the Legions who created them, imparting some of their own Legions Identity into the weapons, molding them slightly into the heads of their respective animal. The Extra Attack from being equipped with both weapons has already been included in Pionus' Profile.

 

Range - Str - Ap - Type

     -        x2     1      Melee, Instant Death, Master Crafted, Shred, Sunder, Deathblow*

Deathblow: Pionus may elect to cut his attacks down by a Third (rounding down) minimum of 1 to increase the Strength of his attacks to Destroyer (S:D) for the duration of that turn.

 

The Lion & Bear each contain an In-built Irradiation Engine and Graviton Imploder respectively.

 

The Atlantean Cerement: The Armor made for his "Body" through a combined effort of the Crimson Lions and the Iron Bears, the Atlantean Cerement is made up, in part, from the Recovered Shards of Pionus' Opalescent Ward painted in the colors of a Black Pearl.

• Confers a 2+ Armor Save and a 4+ Invulnerable and Two Void Shields.

Soul Gazer: On his "Face", in place of eyes, sits a pair of Enormous, Ever-Swirling Opals and a single Ruby of the Deepest Red on the Forehead. The Soul Gazer has the following profile:

Range ---- Str ---- Ap ----- Type

Template    7          4          Assault D3, Torrent, Synaptic Shock

Synaptic Shock: Models that suffer unsaved wounds from a weapon with this special rule must immediately take a Leadership Test at -2 or be forced to Go To Ground! Regardless of Special rules that would prevent them from doing so; ie the Fearless Special Rule

 

Silent Scream: As he got accustomed to his new "body" Pionus soon discovered that it could emit a wave of force if he concentrated enough, something that was not described within its capabilities by the Archmagi who detailed its ins and outs to him.

 

Declared at the Start of the controlling Psychic Phase, Pionus may emit a wave of force centered around him and travelling 24" outwards in all directions. Any Models that are within this area of effect are pushed back D6" Parallel to Pionus and must take a Difficult/Dangerous Terrain test at -1 (Failing it on a 2 or 1). Any Flyers found within, friend or foe, must take an immediate Grounding Test or Immobilized test where applicable.

 

Grenade Harness: Pionus may choose to fire D3 of either Frag, Krak, Haywire, Plasma or Rad Grenades in the shooting phase, not counting towards his maximum allowance of weapons being fired. Only one type of Grenade may be fired per turn.

 

Special Rules:(Did not list duplicate entries found in the GMC and Primarch Special Rules)

• Primarch ( Eternal Warrior, Fear, Fearless, Adamantium Will, Fleet, It Will Not Die, Master of the Legion) Does not have the Independent Character Special Rule.
• Gargantuan Monstrous Creature (FNP (5+), Hammer of Wrath, Move Through Cover, Relentless, Smash, Strikedown)
• Sire of the Scions Hospitalier (per his original entry)
• Beacon of Salvation (per his original entry)

 

Visually, Think of a slightly smaller-than-a-Knight Contemptor but with subtle Eldar Smoothness and Lines to it.

 

Anyways, there you have it. He still reads as horribly OP to me :P But, hopefully being only 50pts Cheaper than a Warhound Balances him out a bit.

[Chief Captain Redd]

I really like him honestly, and his shooting isn't insane so I think the price is fair at 700.

[Grifftofer]

First Draft: (I've literally given this no thought)

 

Pionus Santor      700pts

The Undying, The Everliving Son, The Leviathan

 

Having somehow survived his fateful encounter with his closest Fallen Brother, Morro, the Scions Hospitalier used all their influence and power at their disposal to look for a way to restore their Gene-Father or at least keep him among the living.

 

It is through secret, hidden and means obfuscated beyond all measure that the adepts of a branch of the Mechanicum were able to produce a "Body" for Pionus to inhabit. The Price, however, was the abandonment of his flesh and blood and to transfer his essence, consciousness and ultimately, his soul into the construct that would save him.

 

Whilst the ingenuity and technological mastery of the Mechanicum wrought a body for the Primarch, it was through the combined efforts of the finest artisans of the Iron Bears and Crimson Lions, Niklaas among them, that his new form was bedecked in the finest armor the Imperium has seen short of the Emperor's own Warplate.

 

It was with great chagrin that the unanimous decision was made among the Primarchs closest advisers to go through with the procedure; placing more value on their Primarch being among them and the living than consigning what little spark of life remained in his mortal shell to death.

 

 

WS  BS  S  T  W  I  A  LD  Sv

  8    5  10  9  8  6  6  10   2+ 

 

Unit Composition: 1 (unique)

Unit Type: Gargantuan Monstrous Creature

 

Wargear:

• The Lion & Bear
• The Atlantean Cerement
• Soul Gazer
• The Silent Scream
• Grenade Harness (unlimited)

The Lion & Bear: A pair of masterfully wrought Power Talons, the Bear & Lion bear the names of the Legions who created them, imparting some of their own Legions Identity into the weapons, molding them slightly into the heads of their respective animal. The Extra Attack from being equipped with both weapons has already been included in Pionus' Profile.

 

Range - Str - Ap - Type

     -        x2     1      Melee, Instant Death, Master Crafted, Shred, Sunder, Deathblow*

Deathblow: Pionus may elect to cut his attacks down by a Third (rounding down) minimum of 1 to increase the Strength of his attacks to Destroyer (S:D) for the duration of that turn.

 

The Lion & Bear each contain an In-built Irradiation Engine and Graviton Imploder respectively.

 

The Atlantean Cerement: The Armor made for his "Body" through a combined effort of the Crimson Lions and the Iron Bears, the Atlantean Cerement is made up, in part, from the Recovered Shards of Pionus' Opalescent Ward painted in the colors of a Black Pearl.

• Confers a 2+ Armor Save and a 4+ Invulnerable and Two Void Shields.

Soul Gazer: On his "Face", in place of eyes, sits a pair of Enormous, Ever-Swirling Opals and a single Ruby of the Deepest Red on the Forehead. The Soul Gazer has the following profile:

Range ---- Str ---- Ap ----- Type

Template    7          4          Assault D3, Torrent, Synaptic Shock

Synaptic Shock: Models that suffer unsaved wounds from a weapon with this special rule must immediately take a Leadership Test at -2 or be forced to Go To Ground! Regardless of Special rules that would prevent them from doing so; ie the Fearless Special Rule

 

Silent Scream: As he got accustomed to his new "body" Pionus soon discovered that it could emit a wave of force if he concentrated enough, something that was not described within its capabilities by the Archmagi who detailed its ins and outs to him.

 

Declared at the Start of the controlling Psychic Phase, Pionus may emit a wave of force centered around him and travelling 24" outwards in all directions. Any Models that are within this area of effect are pushed back D6" Parallel to Pionus and must take a Difficult/Dangerous Terrain test at -1 (Failing it on a 2 or 1). Any Flyers found within, friend or foe, must take an immediate Grounding Test or Immobilized test where applicable.

 

Grenade Harness: Pionus may choose to fire D3 of either Frag, Krak, Haywire, Plasma or Rad Grenades in the shooting phase, not counting towards his maximum allowance of weapons being fired. Only one type of Grenade may be fired per turn.

 

Special Rules:(Did not list duplicate entries found in the GMC and Primarch Special Rules)

• Primarch ( Eternal Warrior, Fear, Fearless, Adamantium Will, Fleet, It Will Not Die, Master of the Legion) Does not have the Independent Character Special Rule.
• Gargantuan Monstrous Creature (FNP (5+), Hammer of Wrath, Move Through Cover, Relentless, Smash, Strikedown)
• Sire of the Scions Hospitalier (per his original entry)
• Beacon of Salvation (per his original entry)

 

Visually, Think of a slightly smaller-than-a-Knight Contemptor but with subtle Eldar Smoothness and Lines to it.

 

Anyways, there you have it. He still reads as horribly OP to me But, hopefully being only 50pts Cheaper than a Warhound Balances him out a bit.

 

Overall  I quite like him. I haven't ever really faced/played with GCs so I'm not too familiar with their rules so I'm not going to comment too much.

• The first thing that I think is a bit much is T9. As I recall Eldar Wraith constructs only go up to T8 and I think that is with good reason. At T9 you can completely ignore ANY weapon of S5 or lower including that Paragon Blade wielding Praetor and any other non-fist/mace wielding marine. This makes you invulnerable to so much stuff that it might be too much. Given that you also force fixed dice rolls to wound you on 6s (I think?) I don't think that dropping to T8 will be a major change to overall toughness. Especially as you have a pair of void shields to protect you against bigger weapons.
• For The Lion & Bear is there any good reason to give them S x2? I ask because at S10 already I can't think of any, except to ensure that he will always strike at S10 if Horus manages to deal any damage to him with his claw.
• Silent Scream seems like it would end up with lots of dice rolling if you ever use it. I would suggest removing the 'push' effect as it isn't really necessary and making it a simple dangerous terrain test that fails on a 1 or 2. I also recall someone saying that he might hear the voices of other souls as part of his construct's ephemeral connection to the Eldar infinity circuit. That might be something that could distract him or make him lose concentration. Even if that is not the case I suggest some kind of a test to let him use the power, be it an Initiative test, Ld (I'd maybe avoid this though) or just make it a regular Psychic power with a Level to be cast.

[Slips]

Fair on T8/9. Went with T9 since its a Wraith Construct with additional stuff over it but Lowering it down would be fair.

 

As for GMC, they only modify Fixed To-Wound Rolls such as Sniper and Poisoned but not Fleshbane, making them only wound on a 6. Additionally, unless they have Eternal Warrior, GMCs suffer D3 Wounds vs Instant Death Attacks instead of getting instagibbed. They also got Stomp.

Theres also a debate on whether they can only fire 2 weapons like MC's or More due to wonky wording. They also can move 12" Standard. Other than that, they get the Listed Special Rules with the addition of Fear and Fearless, which I didnt duplicate due to Primarch Already having it.

 

Sx2 is 'cuz They're Fancy Power Firsts Its also to potentially prevent any lowering of his damage, I guess.

 

Fair again on Silent Scream.

 

Was also thinking of turning him into a PML1 Psyker due to the Construct and all that jazz with access to fixed power(s). Silent Scream could be the one. Originally, the Push was a Fixed 3" but it felt too weak.

 

Edit: Tweaks to the Profile.

 

Hidden Content

Pionus Santor      700pts

The Undying, The Everliving Son, The Leviathan

 

WS  BS  S  T  W  I  A  LD  Sv

  8    5  10  8  8  6  6  10   2+ 

 

Unit Composition: 1 (unique)

Unit Type: Gargantuan Monstrous Creature

 

Wargear:

• The Lion & Bear
• The Atlantean Cerement
• Soul Gazer
• Grenade Harness (unlimited)

The Lion & Bear: A pair of masterfully wrought Power Talons, the Bear & Lion bear the names of the Legions who created them, imparting some of their own Legions Identity into the weapons, molding them slightly into the heads of their respective animal. The Extra Attack from being equipped with both weapons has already been included in Pionus' Profile.

 

Range - Str - Ap - Type

     -        x2     1      Melee, Instant Death, Master Crafted, Shred, Sunder, Deathblow*

Deathblow: Pionus may elect to cut his attacks down by a Third (rounding down) minimum of 1 to increase the Strength of his attacks to Destroyer (S:D) for the duration of that turn.

 

The Lion & Bear each contain an In-built Irradiation Engine and Graviton Imploder respectively.

 

The Atlantean Cerement: The Armor made for his "Body" through a combined effort of the Crimson Lions and the Iron Bears, the Atlantean Cerement is made up, in part, from the Recovered Shards of Pionus' Opalescent Ward painted in the colors of a Black Pearl.

• Confers a 2+ Armor Save and a 4+ Invulnerable and Two Void Shields.

Soul Gazer: On his "Face", in place of eyes, sits a pair of Enormous, Ever-Swirling Opals and a single Ruby of the Deepest Red on the Forehead. The Soul Gazer has the following profile:

Range ---- Str ---- Ap ----- Type

Template    7          4          Assault D3, Torrent, Synaptic Shock

Synaptic Shock: Models that suffer unsaved wounds from a weapon with this special rule must immediately take a Leadership Test at -2 or be forced to Go To Ground! Regardless of Special rules that would prevent them from doing so; ie the Fearless Special Rule

 

Grenade Harness: Pionus may choose to fire D3 of either Frag, Krak, Haywire, Plasma or Rad Grenades in the shooting phase, not counting towards his maximum allowance of weapons being fired. Only one type of Grenade may be fired per turn.

 

Special Rules:(Did not list duplicate entries found in the GMC and Primarch Special Rules)

• Primarch ( Eternal Warrior, Fear, Fearless, Adamantium Will, Fleet, It Will Not Die, Master of the Legion) Does not have the Independent Character Special Rule.
• Gargantuan Monstrous Creature (FNP (5+), Hammer of Wrath, Move Through Cover, Relentless, Smash, Strikedown)
• Sire of the Scions Hospitalier (per his original entry)
• Beacon of Salvation (per his original entry)
• Psyker (Mastery Level 1)

Psyker: Due to the Nature of his new Body, Pionus Santor's Latent Psychic Abilities (present among all Non-Blank Primarchs to an Extent) were activated. Haunted by Whispers and voices of Unknown provenance, the only way his Psychic Abilities have manifested was through what he calls, a Silent Scream. He otherwise has access to no other Psychic Disciplines or Powers.

 

Silent Scream: Warp Charge 2 24" Nova Power

• This Power forces all models, friend or foe, within its area of effect to immediately take a Dangerous/Difficult Terrain Test, regardless of special rules that let them ordinarily bypass taking them, that is failed on a roll of a 1 and 2. Only Invulnerable Saves may be taken against failed Tests.
• Additionally, any Models with the Flying/Flyer type that is not in either Hover or Glide mode takes an immediate Grounding Test or Immobilized test, whichever is appropriate for the model. 

Edited September 19, 2015 by Slipstreams

[Talonair]

I think you might be mistaken on the Instant Death vs Gargantuan Creatures side of things. the Unstoppable rule states that 'Any attack that normally inflicts Instant Death or says that the target model is removed from play inflicts D3 Wounds on a Gargantuan or Flying Gargantuan Creature instead'

[simison]

*outruns a tsunami of homework* 

 

Okay, guys, what'd I miss!?

[MikhalLeNoir]

*outruns a tsunami of homework*

 

Okay, guys, what'd I miss!?

Well....you know the himalayans? About that size on crazy ideas. We are now in the godzilla cthulla vs gargsntuan robo primarch gorilla thing^^

 

Oh. And the wardens of light are shiny as ever with that awesome bling on them

Edited September 19, 2015 by MikhalLeNoir

[simison]

Oh joy. Well, nothing to do but work my way through it. *grabs climbing gear*

[Slips]

I think you might be mistaken on the Instant Death vs Gargantuan Creatures side of things. the Unstoppable rule states that 'Any attack that normally inflicts Instant Death or says that the target model is removed from play inflicts D3 Wounds on a Gargantuan or Flying Gargantuan Creature instead'

Thing is, Eternal Warrior reduces any wounds taken from Instant Death Attacks down to 1.

[Skalpynock]

*outruns a tsunami of homework* 

 

Okay, guys, what'd I miss!?

-The Revolutionaries primarchs wrote the Codex as an "In case we lose" treatise.

-Pionus is in a giant gorilla-eldar-dreadnought. Who is bound to fight Cthulhu-Morro in a titanic clash.

-The Abyssal Mechanicum has a primarch-equivalent Archmagos