MikhalLeNoir Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 (edited) *outruns a tsunami of homework* Okay, guys, what'd I miss!? -The Revolutionaries primarchs wrote the Codex as an "In case we lose" treatise.-Pionus is in a giant gorilla-eldar-dreadnought. Who is bound to fight Cthulhu-Morro in a titanic clash. -The Abyssal Mechanicum has a primarch-equivalent Archmagos In absence of fulgrim, Gwalchavad is the best looking guy in the galaxy. He is so cute, he actually wears a mask in order to not shame hos brothers ;) And yeah...don' t know what is more crazy. Pionius as an eldar dreadnought, cthullu morro ( actually i love him) or the iron lady. Actually even if this is already insane stuff, I think miss thatcher is too strong because to be earnest: if big e or the mechanicum could built suxh a monster. Why bother with primarchs and make deals eith crazy gods. Just as they say in iron man: "heroes weren't born, they were built" Last but not least: Do we have a talented artist amoung our lines, so that we can visualize the whole insurrection? Edited September 19, 2015 by MikhalLeNoir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonair Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 *outruns a tsunami of homework* Okay, guys, what'd I miss!? -The Revolutionaries primarchs wrote the Codex as an "In case we lose" treatise.-Pionus is in a giant gorilla-eldar-dreadnought. Who is bound to fight Cthulhu-Morro in a titanic clash. -The Abyssal Mechanicum has a primarch-equivalent Archmagos In absence of fulgrim, Gwalchavad is the best looking guy in the galaxy. He is so cute, he actually wears a mask in order to not shame hos brothers And yeah...don' t know what is more crazy. Pionius as an eldar dreadnought, cthullu morro ( actually i love him) or the iron lady. Actually even if this is already insane stuff, I think miss thatcher is too strong because to be earnest: if big e or the mechanicum could built suxh a monster. Why bother with primarchs and make deals eith crazy gods. Just as they say in iron man: "heroes weren't born, they were built" Last but not least: Do we have a talented artist amoung our lines, so that we can visualize the whole insurrection? I'm working on toning Mortera down. I was never going to get it 'just right' on the first draft, she was always going to be under- or overpowered. Who is, at present, the single most powerful traitor Primarch, and/or the most durable? And for the point on 'why don't the mechanicum just make one', they really can't. Mortera at present is the culmination of millenia of experience, tinkering, upgrades and chance Dark Age salvage. She's not an STC design, they can't just print more of her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Mine's the hardest hitting at the minute. I think, anyway. He ignores the most survival bonuses, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grifftofer Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Yep. Raktra hits the hardest and Pionus/Niklaas are the hardiest. It's a little blurred as Niklaas is tougher against certain opponents due to his higher Toughness, whereas Pionus has his FNP which makes him tougher against others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonair Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 I'll test Mortera against the three of them then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) Test her against Gwal too please. He is not the strongest but at the brink of dead he could improve Edited September 20, 2015 by MikhalLeNoir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonair Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 I've tested her against Pionus, Raktra and Niklass, and so far her damage output completely overruns each of them. Raktra comes the closest to killing her, but dies the fastest (0.7ish wounds per round dealt by Raktra vs 1.7ish per round dealt by Mortera, both taking into account It Will Not Die), Pionus comes second, dying the slowest and managing to get some good damage on her, and Niklass can barely scratch her paint. I think, overall, Pionus would be the one with greatest chance of killing her, if he gets lucky with a Disembowl attack. I haven't had the chance to test her against Gwal, but I will do that now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonair Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Having tested it against Gwal, I think her biggest threat is a tie between Gwal and Pionus. Gwal got heavily beat on in the first few rounds, but as soon as his +2 WS and +1 S kicked in, Mortera's damage output dropped off a cliff. He was also able to put as much damage into Mortera as Pionus was. However, unlike Pionus, when Gwal's at his peak combat prowess, it doesn't take much bad luck to see him wiped off the table. So, with that in mind, here are the changes I propose to make to Mortera: Remove master crafted from her scythe, definately get rid of Entropic Discharge (all these rolls were made without taking it into account), drop the Disruption Forks to Strength 4 or 5 (these rolls were made with them at strength 5), drop rad grenades (all these rolls were made without taking them into account), maybe drop her invuln to a 4+, maybe drop the reroll on her IWND, and maybe drop the +1 Str on her scythe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Will you test her again with the new stats? Hoe does she fare against the canon primarchs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonair Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 I'll keep testing her, and I've yet to test her against the canon Primarchs yet. I will get back to you with those results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted September 20, 2015 Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 *throws a wrench at the gallery* Okay, after wrestling with the images, I have an announcement! I've hired an artist to do a commission for Alexandros! I've uploaded the first sketch over on my WIP thread. Here's the link: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309261-the-warriors-of-the-renegade-legion-and-their-allies/ I would love it if people could give me advice because I'm wrestling with one or two things. Raktra 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 He is great, but he looks too good. Don't dare to compete with Gwal;) I always envisioned Alexandros with a bigger shield. Older looking. More like a leader. Actually he looks very friendly and more like someone who likes to joke around. Wo draws him for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted September 20, 2015 Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 The shield does need to be bigger, that is true. As I mentioned, I'm struggling with the shield. A round, Hoplon shield fits the Greek theme better, but the Myrmidon use Roman tower shields. Decisions, decisions. I'm intrigued by your thoughts on Alex. I've always try to portray him as the young brother, bit of a runt of the litter vibe. He does like to joke around as you've guessed. The artist is the one who drew Icarion for Athrawes: http://saint-max.deviantart.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Have you seen my detailed answer in your WIP-Thread? On the shields: Maybe there are big macedonian shields? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphariusOmegon108 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 As the tower shields are widely used by breacher marines, maybe use the hoplon shield? would also fit a more "fluent" combat style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted September 20, 2015 Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) I did, Mik, I'm just giving the thread another hour/few more replies so I could reply en mass. ....actually, I should probably be replying there right now. I'm too used to saying everything over here. *goes back to proper thread to reply* Edited September 20, 2015 by simison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Perils Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 You could probably also run with the "Dhal" shield from india ? And I don't know if the Hoplon or the Tower Shield is adapted to a Primarch: they were designed for Shield Wall tactics, and, as far as I know, Alexandros isn't generally going to fight in one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Would be a big wall:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted September 20, 2015 Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 Okay, this is the last time I'm going to reply on Alex here. That's part of the reason why I prefer the hoplon over the tower. The tower has very limited mobility thanks to its size, but I've seen the hoplon used well in duels. (Check out Hector's & Achilles' duel from the movie Troy.) The Dhal shield doesn't address the theme issue. Should Alex match his sons or is it okay that he has his own shield style? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Maybe go for a hybrid between the big roman shield and the hoplite shield and create your own design Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Daemon-me conversion material inbound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Yyyyaaaaasssdd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonair Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Ok, having tested her against various canon Primarchs with her adjusted profile, Mortera's results are as follows: Horus: Phyrric victory to Mortera. Mortera reduced to 1 Wound, her Weapon skill knocked down to 1, her strength to 2 (she restored two points lost in Strength over the course of the battle). The battle would leave Mortera utterly crippled, and perhaps easy prey after dispatching Horus. This combat lasted more than 12 rounds, and was very much a case of slowly chipping each other away. Angron (no bonus from Nails): Victoy to Mortera. Mortera reduced to 4 wounds. Angron just can't put out damage fast enough when not buffed by Butcher's Nails Angron (max. bonus): Phyrric victory to Angron. Angron reduced to 2 wounds Fulgrim: Total victory to Mortera. Mortera ended the combat on maximum wounds (two regens). Fulgrim'sproblem here is that me can only wound Mortera on 6s Mortarion: Stalemate. Each Primarch was damaging the other as quickly as they were regenerating. Concussion from the Forks did nothing, due to Mortarion's weapon being unwieldy, and Mortarion's Instant Death denied Mortera her FNP. Overall, I kept rolling until I got bored, leaving Mortera and Mortarion on 6 wounds each Ferrus (Hammer): Phyrric victory to Ferrus. Ferrus reduced to one wound. Another very lengthy combat Curze: Victory to Mortera. Mortera reduced to four wounds. Curze suffers very much the same problem as Fulgrim, however the Shred and ID a a ways to mitigating that Vulkan: Phyrric victory to Vulkan. Vulkan reduced to two wounds. Lengthy combat, shorter than Ferrus'. That ID S10 hammer is lethal to Mortera, and Vulkan's 3+ invuln saved him a lot of pain Lorgar (default): Lorgar rolled Invisibilty and Hallucination. Victory for Mortera. Mortera reduced to 5 wounds. That was a short lived combat. He never managed to get either of his powers off, and Mortera just clubbed him to the dirt Lorgar (transfigured): Lorgar selecting Invis and Hallucination (other powers have no bearing on combat). Phrric victory to Lorgar. Lorgar reduced to one wound. Hallucination never went off, but he successfully cast Invis every turn, and just slowly chipped away at Mortera. Mortera got a few hits in, and an unlucky Perils took away Hallucination Perturabo (Fists): Total victory for Mortera. Perturabo got some hits in, but Mortera regenerated them. The combat lasted for some time, but Pertuarbo with the Logos just doesn't have the damage output Perturabo (Hammer): Phyrric victory for Mortera. Mortera reduced to 2 wounds. The hammer makes a real difference here Alpharius: Total victory for Mortera. Alpharius didn't so much as scratch Mortera, and the combat was over pretty quickly Rogal Dorn: Total victory for Mortera. Again, couldn't scratch the paint. Corax: Victory for Mortera. Mortera reduced to 6 wounds. That was the fastest combat yet, lasting two rounds. Corax opened with Scourge, getting 9 attacks, of which two went through, Mortera dealing three wounds in return. Next turn was Shadow-walk, and Mortera dealt another three wounds, and restored a lost wound. Guilliman: Phyrric victory for Guilliman. Guilliman reduced to one wound. That increasing weapon skill helped Guilliman, meaning Mortera was never hitting on 3s, and after two rounds he was hitting her on 3s. The reroll to one invuln save per phase helped as well, as did his S10 gauntlet. So, after those tests, the results are: 8 sound victories to Mortera, 2 Phyrric victories, one stalemate, 4 loses which were Phyrric victories to her opponent. With these results, I believe the best option would be to enact the changes I tried out here, and perhaps with one fewer wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Was it mere dice luck or not? And how did the brosverse primarchs now fare against her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 I've been super busy as well, it sounds like Cochise is vastly underpowered. But that's a good thing since it's easier to move up in power than down :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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