General Discussion

[Hesh Kadesh]

If i can find some time and get back in country more and play some games I'd love to.

 

I've signed up the Drowned (Breachers, and Hades drills) for the Challenge in 30k general forum, and I've not had chance to break open the packets yet, and only had 3 games this year so far.

[Big Bad Squig]

Just FYI, the challenge includes modelling, so go wild!  I too remember the Eye of Horus issue being brought up.  We could of course just use the Lightning Bearer's symbol, or mash it together with the chaos star.

[MikhalLeNoir]

by the way: I think building a primarch should be worth more points^^ 10points at least^^ painting as well, cuz I for my part didn't dare to paint mine^^

[Sigismund229]

First Captain related fluff!

Maridius is one of oldest of the Crimson Lions still alive that isn't encased in a dreadnought. Recruited from Albyon 18 years after the end of the Unification Wars, Maridius' home people had retained their warlike nature after the Unification Wars, making the youth a good candidate to join the III legion and the long hours of working in his peoples forges had made Maridius stronger than many adult men despite his young age, making him more likely to survive the implantation process. Once he had been implanted with III legion gene-seed, Maridius soon made a name for himself, earning the nickname "Longstride" for his extraordinary height(due to small malfunction in his ossmodula, Maridius grew remarkably quickly even by III legion standards, a change which nearly killed him) he distinguished himself during the Aracan campaign, where he wrestled and ork warlord to the ground and ripped out the beast's spine, an action that so impressed Rix Nathaniel Garro that he elevated Maridius to his personal guard. From here, Maridius rose quickly, becoming a captain within just a few years(following his slaying of the "Emperor" of the Foriss system) and from there rising to become one of the Thinger(an assembly of captains who acted where other legions had a legion master). Then, when the primarch was found, Maridius impressed him(no one quite knows how although some reports say it was through keeping up with Hectarions ability to drink nerith, a feat no other human could manage) and Hectarion elevated him Myrvallen of the newly formed Clan Mycenor. Hectarion even entrusted Maridius with selecting the first astartes to join the Myramodons, his personal guard. In recognition of his new status, Hectarion then gave Maridius would become his trademark weapon, Soul Cleaver, a large two handed broadsword inscribed with Mycenaean runes and curses which are said to shatter the soul of any slain by it.

 

However, Maridius promotion didn't prevent him from taking to the field, as proven when he led a lightning campaign that subdued the Blood Stars in just 9 months. In recognition of this prowess, Maridius was appointed Tiarnos of the Blood Stars by his primarch, the first Lion to be afforded the title, although many more would follow. This would prove a wise choice, for in the years of Maridius' guardianship, the Blood Stars have become an important and wealthy part of the empire of Mycenae, producing weaponry and warships of a quality unrivalled by any forge world other than Mars and producing regiments of disciplined, brave and skilled Arpine Auxilia, often seen at the frontlines of the Great Crusade.

 

However, over the years, Maridius has payed heavy price for his loyal service to the Emperor and to his primarch. On Ivrax Secundus, he had his right arm destroyed by an Ivraxian plasma cannon(as well as suffering extensive damage to his lungs, although this was subsequently repaired), with what remained of his arm being amputated and replaced with a bionic limb, earning him the nick name "Iron-arm", name he bears to this day. On Phanton, Maridius had his secondary heart ripped out by a deamon and this too needed to be replaced with a bionic replacement. However, the most serious damage ever done to Maridius was on Chirok V, during a battle with the Ynthik slavers. A campaign which the III legion conducted in conjunction with Grave Stalkers, the Ynthik slavers were powerful pyschers who duped legions of slaves into serving them through physic trickery(hence the need for a force of pariah's to be present). However, Maridius became seperated from the main force of astartes and so from the protection of the pariah's. He was soon attacked by one of the slavers who attempted to ensare Maridius. Maridius managed to resist until an unknown Grave Stalker killed the slaver with a bolter shell to the head. However, the mental strain of resisting the slaver was such that the muscles on the left of Maridius' face were paralysed into a rictus grin, an appearance that so horrified Maridius that he had an ivory face mask made to cover that side of his face, leaving only his eye(which remained unparalyzed) visible. Maridius subsequently blamed this injury on the Grave Stalkers and harbours an intense hatred of that legion ever since. The most recent injuries Maridius incurred were fighting against the Qarith when a Qarith warriors talons left Maridius blind in his right eye and with an enormous scar bisecting the right side of his face, with his left being saved by his face mask.

 

Equerry fluff

Called "Silver-tongue" by his brothers, Vericos is a relatively young astartes at only 38 years of age. However, despite his youth(and recklessness) Vericos is the equerry of his primarch, dealing with delegates the primarch has no time for and as the Myramodons are Hectarions martial guards, so Vericos is his political guard, protecting his primarchs reputation as the Myramodons protect his person.

 

Vericos first rose to prominence during the subjugation of Torinak Alpha. The worlds inhabitants had steadfastly refused to accept Imperial rule and had destroyed a small III legion force sent to bring them back into the fold, led by Myrvallen Bryn. Hectarion was preparing to descend upon the world alongside the entirety of Clans Mycenor and Briganda and bring it into line. However, before he could do so, he decided to give the Torinae one last chance to enter the Imperium peacefully. At first, he was going to send Maridius, his sword arm, but before the shuttle departed, a young Crimson Lion from Clan Briganda begged the honour of going in Maridius' place, saying he preferred that the legion lose him than Maridius. While normally Hectarion wouldn't even give this request a second thought, on this occasion some instinct seems to have made him agree. The young astartes was called Vericos "Silver-tongue" and was well known as a wily trickster amongst his bretheren. However, over the course of 48 hours he managed to negotiate a peacefull settlement with the Torinae, granting them slightly greater privileges within the realm of Mycenae than other worlds(such as not being part of any Tiarna) in exchange for them joining the Imperium peacefully and surrendering those responsible for the earlier deaths of Crimson Lions. Following this act, Vericos was named "Hero of Mycenae", with the right to wear a laurel wreath atop his helm and some nicknamed him "Peace-maker", although Vericos himself continued to refer to himself as "Silver-tongue". However, Hectarion was still reluctant to appoint an equerry, on tje grounds that he had never loved politics as some of his brothers did. In the end, it took an intervention by his brother, Alexandros of the Fifth, to persuade Hectarion to make Vericos his equerry. Since then, Vericos has handled the politics that Hectarion is too pre occupied to deal with or with those Hectarion wishes to keep at arms length(such as members of the Administratum seeking to collect tithes from the empire of Mycenae). However, it would be a mistake to assume that Vericos' is a purely political animal. While he can frequently be found in the debating chambers of Hellia, Vericos is also often fighting alongside his primarch, wielding his power maul, a weapon Vericos favour due to its ability to kill with one blow. Not only this, but Vericos also wears a suit of armour many believe is more suited to legion like the Wardens of Light than the brutal sons of Mycenae, as it is chased in silver and has an eccentric face mask. Despite this, none may dispute Vericos' martial skill as his showy armour frequently draws enemy champions to him in battle and it is one of Vericos' proudest boasts that his armour has yet to be scratched.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Sigismund229

[Raktra]

So, now we've got the alternative RoWs in book 6, anyone considering a second one for their Legions?

Also, look at the Blood Angels. They fight like Berserkers +1 half the time. It totally fits my fluff! Spies, everywhere.

[Skalpynock]

So, now we've got the alternative RoWs in book 6, anyone considering a second one for their Legions?

 

Also, look at the Blood Angels. They fight like Berserkers +1 half the time. It totally fits my fluff! Spies, everywhere.

Thought about these for a while tonight, and of the fact that I have wrote the pre-Insurrection RoW either…

 

Void Eagles RoW 1 (pre-insurrection) – Wings of Fire: Saturation oriented, focuses on bombardment and Worldburners

Void Eagles RoW 2 (mid-insurrection) – Wings of Fury: Represents the survivors of fleets taken by surprise at the outbreak of the treachery, boarding and assault-oriented.

 

Warbringers RoW 1 (pre-insurrection): The legion's usual way: shooty infantry / termie blocks and rapiers. Don't really know how to translate it ruleswise.

Warbringers RoW 2 (mid-insurrection): The new-10 regiments begin to be deployed en-masse: Militia units spam and Tryzub terminators vanguard.

 

Also, have you looked into this new World Eater apoth character for you Berserkers?

Edited February 7, 2016 by Skalpynock

[Demus Ragnok]

I got some cool names for Fire Keeper RoW no rules though.

 

Ash and Dust

 

Ring of Fire

 

Scarlet Dusk

 

Black Dawn

[Slips]

Scions Hospitalier Episode 2:

The Wraithening, Electric Boogaloo:

Pionus Is back and he's pissed.

 

Summarized in crappy movie-title form!

 

Probably not going to be this but, whatevs.

[Raktra]

 

So, now we've got the alternative RoWs in book 6, anyone considering a second one for their Legions?

 

Also, look at the Blood Angels. They fight like Berserkers +1 half the time. It totally fits my fluff! Spies, everywhere.

Thought about these for a while tonight, and of the fact that I have wrote the pre-Insurrection RoW either…

 

Void Eagles RoW 1 (pre-insurrection) – Wings of Fire: Saturation oriented, focuses on bombardment and Worldburners

Void Eagles RoW 2 (mid-insurrection) – Wings of Fury: Represents the survivors of fleets taken by surprise at the outbreak of the treachery, boarding and assault-oriented.

 

Warbringers RoW 1 (pre-insurrection): The legion's usual way: shooty infantry / termie blocks and rapiers. Don't really know how to translate it ruleswise.

Warbringers RoW 2 (mid-insurrection): The new-10 regiments begin to be deployed en-masse: Militia units spam and Tryzub terminators vanguard.

 

Also, have you looked into this new World Eater apoth character for you Berserkers?

 

Say whaaaaa? I must spy.

[Skalpynock]

Say whaaaaa? I must spy.

Gahlan Surlak: worlds eaters version of 'fabulous' bile, a lovely gent who's basically gone ":cuss it instead of helping the injured, i'm going to make the 'nails' even worse. he can 'augment' any tactical squad, giving them +1 str and FNP (6+) but they also have -1BS and are no longer scoring (still denial). in addition those units don't confer VP for being killed. he also has another rule for any unit he joins, in any assault phase the entire unit can have +1 attack, but at the end of the phase, each surviving model must roll a 2+ or be removed from play. doesn't effect minis with the 'character' rule.

This last rule is also applied to all WE primus medicae and apothecaries.

 

[Sigismund229]

I was thinking for the CL that their pre insurrection RoW might further emphasise their killyness in cc/shield wall and be called something like "the Iron wall".

No clue for their mid insurrection RoW

[Hesh Kadesh]

Well, I've got the basic idea for mine already laid out; 

 

Traitor Only

Have my Gal Vorbak equivalents available as Troops, and give the "Sergeants" a Ritual Blade. If model is removed, on a 6, place a portal. Alternatively, at start of the psychic phase, remove model, and on a 2+, open a portal, which can deploy on the battlefield. Grants IWND to Daemons oswith 12" of one or more portals, and allows free Summoning Rolls (Malefic is still banned) with a random result to select which one comes through; on a 1, the opponent chooses, 2-5 on a table, and on a 6, Player chooses. Also acts like a Nuncio Vox for Daemons only.

Daemons of Slaanesh are allowed as allies, while Slaanesh Daemon MC's/Flyers and Gargantuans are available as a Lord of War for the main detachment. Be'lakor may be taken as a Support Officer.

Any time a Psyker is killed, roll a dice, on a 4+ Rift appears. If Killed due to Perils, Rift appears without need to roll.

All Daemons get Preferred Enemy (Pariah) and (Twisted Brotherhood)

Limitations

Dreadnought Talons are only limited 1 maximum.

Although Daemons taken as allies score, those Summoned may only Deny.

[Athrawes]

Just FYI, the challenge includes modelling, so go wild!  I too remember the Eye of Horus issue being brought up.  We could of course just use the Lightning Bearer's symbol, or mash it together with the chaos star.

 

What I had been planning on doing was something in this vein:

 

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i327/nickfayette1/a17b3e5b-64dc-4ba7-9b8e-a2092644d3ec.jpg

 

 

I'd leave it up to somebody with more artistic tallent than me, but basically meld the Lightning Bearers Natal Star with the 8-pointed Chaos star.

[Grifftofer]

Had a go at compositing something similar to your sketch Athrawes. What do you think?

 

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn171/Grifftofer/ISA1_zpsz0vzatcu.jpg

[Athrawes]

Looks cool Grifftofer. It was just an Idea I had scribbled down a while ago. As a minor tweak, the points on the Lightning Bearer Natal Star are meant to be different lengths. The middle points are the shortest, the top and bottom points are longer.

[Grifftofer]

I may have overcompensated a little.

 

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn171/Grifftofer/ISA2_zpsnbrm4t9l.jpg

[Sigismund229]

On a serious note, I managed to create a rough outline for the first Crimson Lions RoW(name still to be decided).

-Wall of shields: If a squad with this RoW is making charge move and the squad they are charging uses Overwatch, reduce the S of all hits scored with Overwatch by 1.

-Fury of the Lion: Squads armed entirely with boarding shields may make Fury of the Legion attacks.

-Hold the wall: When a squad with this RoW is charged it must take a LD test. If this test is passed, then their enemies do not gain +1A from charging. If failed, the squad with this RoW loses 1I.

-Honour must be satisfied: If a character with this RoW receives a challenge, they may not refuse it. When fighting challenges, character with this RoW gain +1A.

-Firmly grounded: Armies using this RoW may only take 0-2 Fast Attack options. However, all assault squads using this RoW may take hoplon shields.

-Honour the fallen: When a friendly or allied squad gets destroyed, any squads using this RoW within "18 gain +1A and +1LD.

-Til the end: When a Crimson Lions squad is under 25% of its strength the remainders of that squad gain +1LD and may roll 3 dice when running and pick the best result.

[Doctor Perils]

Some interesting concepts.

 

Just to clarify, for fury of the lion, does a unit with an independent character without a boarding shield lose fury of the legion ?

[Slips]

Hold the wall would also be redundant with Breaching Shields as they have Defensive Grenades which cause disordered charges.

[Hesh Kadesh]

I like this a lot. A few questions, though. Is it intended for the Wall of Shields to affect non-shielded units? Fury of the Legion is an incredible idea! I love it!

 

May I make some suggestions? -1 Strength from Overwatch, Fury of the Legion, Disordered Charge on all units, +1 attack for characters, 4++ Saves for Assault Squads if wished, bonus attacks as a result of losing units, and super Leadership, in exchange for a small chance to suffer -1 Initiative, inability to refuse challenges, 0-2 Fast Attack (when most of the units you're buffing are troops anyway XD). The penalties are sadly extremely minor in exchange for some very capable bonuses.

 

Crimson Lions Unique Rite of War; X X

- Wall of Shields; Units made up entirely of models with the Legiones Astartes (Crimson Lions) special rule equipped with Boarding, Combat or Hoplon Shields gain the Counter Attack special rule, and reduce the strength of all overwatch shooting attacks made against them when they initiate a charge.

- Fury of the Lion; Models with Boarding Shields gain Fury of the Legion special rule. Independent Characters with this special rule equipped with a Boarding Shield may also participate in a Fury of the Legion attack in exception to the normal rule.

- Hold the Wall; Enemy units suffering one or more casualties as a result of an overwatch attack from a model with the Legiones Astartes (Crimson Lions) special rule must immediately take a Leadership test. If failed, they count as having made a Disordered Charge. In addition, Legion Assault Squads entirely taking Combat Squads may instead upgrade to Hoplon Shields for +7pts per model.

- Honour the Fallen; In Challenges, models with this special rule gain +1 Attack. While in a challenge, any morale tests taken by the same unit roll one additional dice for a Leadership test and discard the highest. In addition, if ever a Unit made up entirely of models with this rule is destroyed, a single unit also consisting entirely of models with this rule with one or more models within 18" of it and in Line of Sight gains +1 Ld and +1 Attack for the rest of the battle. A unit may never benefit from this bonus more than once.

Limitations

- Units made up entirely of models with the Legiones Astartes (Crimson Lions) special rule equipped with Combat, Boarding or Breaching Shields must pass a Leadership test when a charge is declared against them before any other actions are resolved. If this test is failed, they may not make overwatch attacks and enemies do not count as making a Disordered Charge as a result of charging Boarding Shields, as well as reducing their Initiative by 1. Note that any other cause that an enemy unit may have for making a Disordered Charge are still not ignored.

- Characters in detachments with this Rite of War may not decline challenges, and if the Warlord is killed, your opponent gains +D3 Victory Points.

- Detachments using this Rite of War may not include more Fast Attack units than they have non-compulsory Troop choices.

- In missions which would normally have a random game length, the Crimson Lions player's opponent can opt to play to six full turns instead of the roll to end the game being made.

 

I apologise is this is not the direction you were intending to go in, but I hope it's thematic, and thought for idea's? I could include all of them, as you've essentially got 6 rather good bonuses (characters potentially gaining +3 attacks as a result of seeing a unit killed , on top of having something like 5 base, you could have an 8 Attack Praetor on the defense even as it stands). Essentially, the downsides are that you must take additional troops choices to run Fast Attack, give an opponent the opportunity in the few Random Game End's to bug out early, and lose VP's if your Warlord is killed, while Shield equipped units have a chance (Ld test) of breaking the Shield Wall (although as they see units destroyed, they have get improved Ld, and the Warrior of Legend upgrade (see below) providing Ld Rerolls). The only real mechanic I've not been able to bring over is the Til the End as that was yet another trigger to keep track of in game, but Ive tied the bonus the character being in a challenge.

 

In regards to comments balancewise on top of that, the only thing I'd change is requirement only to accept, rather than force them to issue. Especially if it's tied only to IC's. If there's ever a legion that exemplifies the Space Wolves, World Eaters, Sons of Horus and Blood Angels, in the BotL, for me, it's this legion, and having them as a glowing champion of humanity, calling out the big bad xenos heroes to get cut down by a Chainaxe is how I've pictured the Crimson Lions :). I love their indepth background.

 

I couldn't find your legion rules with a quick search, but here I found some comments I made about rules earlier;

 

With the Rix (quick aside; I know you said you weren't keen on the idea of making a Rix an upgrade for a Legion Champion, but my idea behind it was that the Rix essentially become the Captains as a result of exemplifying the Crimson Lions ethos in war, and were more an elite type of Captain, as well as giving the Legion Champion an actual reason to be used - plus with the ability to get bonuses for attack for being in a challenge, being able to make Glorious Interventions more properly is a decent mechanic) providing a +1 Toughness as a result, you've got Breacher Squads and Aishetari with T5, making Fury of the Legion attacks (with Specialist Ammunition for Aishetari- why yes, of course, lets place a potential 80 S3 Sniper Templates down on a unit within 9"! Or 40 S4 Shred Rending Shots at 24", or 80 15" S4 Sniper Shots). This is damn awesome. Backed up by 3+/4++ units which may have 2 attacks base and a 4 Attack Challenging Sergeant with a 2+/4++.

 

With the Warriors of Legend upgrade, you can always reroll your Ld test to not give up your breaching squad upgrade as well, so even that's not a huge penalty, and army synergy :).

 

Again, I hope that it meets your expectations and desires, if not, let me know, and I'll make your changes *thumbs up*. Trying to be a bit more helpful after being less than in the past, so please don't take this as me barging in to take over XD.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Hesh Kadesh

[Big Bad Squig]

On the subject of RoWs, I've done two for the Godslayers.  Traitor only, seeing as I feel otherwise the traitor Godslayers run the risk of being very mono-build.  Also note that Corrupted Godslayers may not take any non-Dreadnought vehicles (the Dreadnoughts play a very important role in the storyline, as they are unaffected by the plague due to their life-support systems.  Oh, and, for reference, where a Warlord without the Corrupted Godslayers LA is mentioned, this means a character upgraded to a daemon.

 

 

Rite of War:  Survivors of the Rapture

Benefits:

Some Semblance of Tactics:  Squads with the option to take a Rhino as a Dedicated Transport may instead select a Legion Drop Pod.  Legion Contemptors and Dreadnoughts may take Dreadnought Drop Pods as Dedicated Transports.

Ancient Survivors:  All models within a Legion Contemptor, Leviathan, Deredeo, Contemptor-Cortus, Contemptor Mortis, Mortis Dreadnought or Dreadnought Talon gain the Walker (Character) unit type, as well as the Hatred and Rampage special rules.  However, each model is worth 1 additional victory point to the enemy if slain.

 

Limitations:

Sentient Command:  The army’s Warlord may not have the Legiones Astartes (Corrupted Godslayers) special rule, and may never take an allied detatchment or fortification.

 

 

 

 

Rite of War:  The Unliving Tide

Benefits:

The Plague Spreads:  All models using this Rite of War spawn Plague Zombies on a 5+ as a result of The Dead Will Rise Again opposed to on a 6+.

Daemonic Brethren:  Plaguewalker Hordes and Rotkeeper Packs may be taken as Troops choices instead of Elites and Fast Attack (respectively), but are worth 1 additional victory point to the enemy if slain.

Smother the Warp:  All models with the Pariah or Twisted Brotherhood extend the range of any effects of this rule by 6 inches where applicable.  Note that this does not grant a range to abilities that would not otherwise have one.

 

Limitations:

Deceased Hordes:  An army using this Rite Of War must take two more Troops choices than normally necessary, and may never take an allied detatchment or fortification.

Lumbering Advance:  An army using this Rite of War has a -1 modifier to the roll to decide who takes the first turn, and may never Seize the Initiative.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Big Bad Squig

[Raktra]

I feel kind of dumb being the one to bring this subject up and yet not have a clue what to do for it myself. Entertained by what I'm seeing come out, though.

[Slips]

I feel kind of dumb being the one to bring this subject up and yet not have a clue what to do for it myself. Entertained by what I'm seeing come out, though.

GO AGAINST THE GRAIN!

 

MAKE A LOYALIST ONE!

[Raktra]

I ALREADY DID THAT ONCE. Stupid Knight Errant Berserker...

[Slips]

I ALREADY DID THAT ONCE. Stupid Knight Errant Berserker...

YOU FOOL!

 

HOW ABOUT ONE THATS ALL ABOUT BIG STOMPY ROBBITS!?!?

 

Like:

 

In Addition to Master of the Legion dude, you can only Take Forge Lords or Praevians as HQs.

 

Vorax are Trooperinos and you've gotta take 3 Per Maniple if taken this way; 1 Squad Is Compulsory

1 Squad of your "UBER KILLY LEGION SPECIAL BOYS" is compulsory

 

Artalax are Fast Attack.

Castellax and Domitar are Elites.

 

Must have more units with the Vehicle (Walker) Type or Battle-Automata than you have Infantry. Ie: Take LOTS of Dreads and Robbits.

If not already applicable, Dreads and Automata in this Detachment get LA:BoU.

 

I call it: 

 

The March of the Blenders

Aka Poozers

 

Edited February 11, 2016 by Slipstreams