General Discussion

[bluntblade]

 

Does anyone know of stories that depict Destroyers in action?

Distant Echoes of Old Night, I believe.

Cheers.

 

Also, here's an idea for how Icarion's tipping point with Chaos could play out. I know I'm getting ahead, but it struck me today.

 

++++

 

“The campaign stalls, I grant you that,” Alexos shrugged, and Icarion's anger rose at his insouciance. Fortunately the throneroom was almost empty, save for his own guards. “But I am privy to far worse tidings. I have seen further ahead than you dare to look, my lord. The future that awaits if you do not accept the aid of our allies in the Warp.”

 

“And you would have me step into the Maelstrom with you?” snapped Icarion. “With no guarantee that I am seeing the truth and not a fabrication by your other masters?”

 

“I would only have you trust in your own gifts.” Alexos spread his hands slightly, inclining his head but maintaining eye contact with the Stormlord. “I am a scientist as much as I am a priest, and I understand your need for data you can rely on. So my lord, I beseech you to gaze ahead down the current path. Ten milllenia should be sufficient.”

 

Icarion frowned, but Alexos’ expression did not change. He closed his eyes and concentrated.

 

Tides of blood seethed around him. The armies of Man were beset on all sides by xenos. Some he knew- greenskins in numbers never seen before, pulling soldiers apart. But others were creatures he had never even imagined.

 

Legions of soulless silver figures that crushed planets underfoot, wiping them clean of organic life or flaying people for skins with which to drape themselves. Some had the shape of men, others serpentine or insectile forms. All driven to eradicate humanity.

 

And something vast, that came from beyond the Galaxy's edge. A swarm of bio-engineered creatures, slaved to a hunger for biomass, reducing every world they reached to a husk.

 

He saw Astartes felled by the silver abominations, and Titans crushed under the claws of monsters that stood just as tall. People of the Imperium betrayed their species to serve strange xenos, seduced by lies of a better existence. Others were dragged into the Webway by Dark Eldar, there to face unimaginable torment. Before his eyes, the populations of entire hive worlds were consumed by seas of maggot-like creatures that lived only to devour.

 

He saw the slow death of humanity… his Imperium…

 

“It shall not be!" It was a moment before he realised he had spoken. A strange look passed across Alexos’ face as Icarion's eyes settled on him. Something close to satisfaction. Icarion forced himself to keep a neutral tone, shocked at how much the vision had shaken him. But then, how could it not? “Your allies can grant us the strength to destroy those threats?”

 

Alexos simply nodded. “Nothing will stand in our way, lord. I can prove that to you, if you will permit me.”

 

“What do require?”

 

“Raktra, and his Legion. Allow me to lead them against the dominion of the Lions, and I shall bring them back as war incarnate.”

 

Icarion leaned forward in his throne. He imagined casting aside this poor substitute and ascending the steps on Terra to take his rightful place. His hands clenched. “Make it so.”

Edited April 3, 2016 by bluntblade

[simison]

I was at church this evening, and, given how quickly my mind works, I tend to make notes while I'm waiting for the next point to be introduced and explained. So, I came up with a list of what happens to most of the Primarchs post-Insurrection. Now, for my mild amusement, I'm going to keep what I wrote a secret for now. Instead, I have an announcement: I reserve the right to substitute this fate by killing any Primarch whose author disappears/drops out from the project beyond the 'Point of No Replacement'. I reserve the right to kill a Primarch with a rock if the departure was particularly nasty. (The 'Rock falls, party dies' clause) Finally, I reserve the right to turn a Daemon Primarch into a new Chaos god, a Loyalist Primarch into a new Emperor, or a third-party Primarch into master of the Galaxy, if their author left project because they died. 

 

On a more serious note, it occurs to me that we haven't picked a Primarch to be the Perpetual Primarch. I'm not sure why, but I developed a system for it if there was no agreement on who. Simply put, I roll a D-6 among the muggle, non-Traitor Primarchs. (No Traitors because they can achieve Daemon-hood) Under that definition that list includes: Niklaas, Hectarion, Azus, Yucahu, Jackel, and Kozja. 

[MikhalLeNoir]

We talked about this before and if I can remember right, we didn't choose a perpetual because we came to the consent, thst the.whole concept is not a route we want to follow.can be seen somewhere around on thread general discussions page 25 )

 

And don't teaser us, talk.;)

Edited April 3, 2016 by MikhalLeNoir

[Kelborn]

Do we need a Perpetual primarch?

At first, I loved the idea of an immortal Vulkan as he is one of my favorite primarchs but then it was screwed up.

 

Can imagine that it could be either boring "oh look, there's Azus again. And now he's dead agains. Respawn in 5...4..."

or it ends like Vulkans fate. It needs to be well done but nearly everything is better than Kyme's version...

 

Hectarion already got his deamon shard story. Would take hin out of the poll.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Niklaas would be funny cause this rebornstuff is clearly a witch thing and he hates witchtbings. Could end in a story arc where he tries to get himself rid of immortality.

[Demus Ragnok]

Ha ha ha....

 

No.

[MikhalLeNoir]

That is so sad....i hope fate/dice will choose you^^

 

But...Second to Kelborn I loathe the concept. We are all lost legions amd didn't we all got purged and burned?

[Kelborn]

Imagin Daer'dd being the perpetual, hiding after his rebirth, he realizes that the Imperium needs stronger warriors and weapons.

So he hides for several years to work on the ultimate weapon and comes back with some Deathstar or T-1000 shenanigans, saying "We are the sons of the Emperor. Resistance is futile. Beat that, bitches!"

[MikhalLeNoir]

Haha or if he resurrects in front of Koschei who is atm in his dark mood. Koschei kills him over and over cause he WANTS to be in this mood and feel guilty but damn Daer'dd doesn't stay dead.

[Raktra]

I'm against it, unless we can make it actually dark, not Vulkan's "I'm going nuts from dying but not really I'm the bestest eva" bullcrap. Less Jean Grey, more 'I have no mouth, but I must scream". Or like Dark Souls.

[Kelborn]

And then Daer'dd looses his mind, goes bear mode, beating the crap out of Koschei, is found by Icarion and used as his personal killer teddy bear. Sounds plausible.

 

Please no perpetuals. Even leave Grammaticus out of it... :/

[simison]

We talked about this before and if I can remember right, we didn't choose a perpetual because we came to the consent, thst the.whole concept is not a route we want to follow.can be seen somewhere around on thread general discussions page 25 )

 

And don't teaser us, talk.

 

Fair enough. This wouldn't be the first time I've forgotten an old line of thought, come back to it, only to get this same response. Given the strong reactions here, we can drop the Perpetual Primarch. 

[Sigismund229]

I was at church this evening, and, given how quickly my mind works, I tend to make notes while I'm waiting for the next point to be introduced and explained. So, I came up with a list of what happens to most of the Primarchs post-Insurrection. Now, for my mild amusement, I'm going to keep what I wrote a secret for now. Instead, I have an announcement: I reserve the right to substitute this fate by killing any Primarch whose author disappears/drops out from the project beyond the 'Point of No Replacement'. I reserve the right to kill a Primarch with a rock if the departure was particularly nasty. (The 'Rock falls, party dies' clause) Finally, I reserve the right to turn a Daemon Primarch into a new Chaos god, a Loyalist Primarch into a new Emperor, or a third-party Primarch into master of the Galaxy, if their author left project because they died.

 

On a more serious note, it occurs to me that we haven't picked a Primarch to be the Perpetual Primarch. I'm not sure why, but I developed a system for it if there was no agreement on who. Simply put, I roll a D-6 among the muggle, non-Traitor Primarchs. (No Traitors because they can achieve Daemon-hood) Under that definition that list includes: Niklaas, Hectarion, Azus, Yucahu, Jackel, and Kozja.

What's a "Point of No Replacement"?

 

Also I'm against an immortal primarch. Too many ways it could be messed up, even though Daer'dd being a perpetual could be funny

 

K'awil(kneels in front of Icarion, giving him a box containing Daer'dd's head) It's done.

 

Icarion: Then...why is the head still talking?

 

Daer'dd: now you see the real advantage of adamantium fused with plasteel is...(notices Icarion and lets loose a load of curses)

 

K'awil: Oh yeah he does that. Two seconds(takes box back, hits the head inside severl times) Sht up! Do you want to make me look bad in front of Icarion?

[bluntblade]

I assume point of no replacement is where we can't transplant another Legion into the setting. So, for example, the Ghost Walkers could perhaps be swapped out with minimal consequence, but the likes of the Godslayers are so deeply embedded that, were Squig to fall under a Warhound tomorrow, we couldn't replace them without making a huge mess.

[Skalpynock]

As it stands, were I not to disappear beyond the hypothetical "point of no replacement", Yucahu leads a campaign post-scouring that goes straight to the edge of the galaxy, where he delivers a final speech about the Great Crusade not being done yet, and he sets off to Andromeda with about one company worth of soldiers.

[Sigismund229]

As far as Hectarion goes, following the Siege of Terra he'd feel that he'd failed everyone who mattered, Daer'dd, Alexandros, Pionius and even the Emperor. As a consequence of that he'd hurl himself and his legion into the Scouring without a second thought and he'd take every battle that came his way, no matter the odds(so if there was an Iron Cage incident, he'd rush headlong into it) in an effort to regain some of the honour he feels he's lost through his failures. However, he eventually realises that such an attempt at attonement is selfish and he still has a duty to the rest of the Imperium and the rest of mankind and that to just give up and seek a glorious death elsewhere would be the ultimate failure of that duty, the ultimate betrayel of the Emperor. So he fights and keeps fighting for all he's worth and holds the Imperium together as best he can or helps the other primarchs to do so and tries to hold on to the Emperor's dream of a united secular humanity. While the other primarchs leave or dissapear, Hectarion stays and fights, his guilt gradually eating him up but his sense of duty keeping him from just saying ":cuss it" and going to the EoT to seek a glorious death. However, around M32 he dissapears, presumed dead, in battle, not sure against who yet.

 

That's what I was thinking for Hec's end. What was your idea sim?

[MikhalLeNoir]

Well Gwalchavad vanishes soon after the Imperium is restored, leaving his sons behind.

Although they were able to save the Imperium for humanity, it was not saved for him. And the day when brother raised against brother and the Stormborn announces his treason, for Gwal the very Idea of his father died.

 

So he vanishes into the webway. Some say he seeks a remedy for the Emperor, as he can't forgive himself for taking too long. Some say he seeks his old friends, the servants of the laughing god. Others say the gods of chaos took a special interest on him as he was able to bann their champion Travier. And now they want revenge and Gwalchavad simply disappeared to protect his sons. Maybe all was true or nothing. But the Wardens of Light and their successors believe, thst during the Emd Times the Light will return to the Galaxy and Gwalchavad will return to their side.

[MikhalLeNoir]

And it is done. As I would never recommend something before I tried it myself, I asked slaine for a commission of the inner circle and see what I have got.

 

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2016/4/3/789992-Wardens%20of%20Light%20-Inner%20Circle.jpg

 

 

I say: fits perfectly into a fw style rulebook. So commission him or let us gather all onfos for the chars amd make a big whole order^^

 

http://slaine69.deviantart.com/

[simison]

That's what I was thinking for Hec's end. What was your idea sim?

 

First, a disclaimer. The canon way has all of the Primarchs become inactive/disappear until the End Times. I'm not sure we need to do that, given that the Imperium never returns to its former glory since Kozja's Suzerainty survives the Insurrection (not sure if it's an autonomous state from the Imperium or if its a confederate with the Imperium, like the Mechanicum). 

 

But, if we went the canon route, these were my notes:

 

Alex: Dead, but the state of his soul is unknown. Might be held by Eldrad and Ulthwé for reasons. 

 

Gwal: (This is before Mikhal told me his version) For Gwalchavad in the classic theory, right after the Battle of Terra, he returns home to rest before he will take his role in the Scouring. He is miserable and his spirit is broken with the crippling of the Emperor and the deaths of Alex & Icarion. He is meditating, restoring his spirit when Chaos strikes. For vengeance for personally defeating their champion, Travier, Chaos engulfs Gwal's home planet in a Warp Storm.

 

Now, from there, I had two ideas. One, the planet is simply isolated. Gwalchavad now had 10,000 years to meditate and cool. Because after 10,000 years, the Warp storms dissapate, and now Gwal can participate in the next huge battle. 

 

Or Gwal and the Wardens have to protect the mortals from an army of Daemons over that time. The Wardens of Light become literal wards as they form walls around the cities and use their Pariah powers to protect the civilians. In this scenario, 10,000 years pass, but it feels like only a hundred days go by.

 

Pionus: Disappears while investigating a Webway portal. Initial idea was that one of the other Eldar craftworlds or the Harlequins have abducted him and are plotting to use him to rescue Isha from Nurgle. 

 

Azus: Found the first Necron tomb world. It malfunctioned so no Necron activates, but Azus trips one of the few working traps and is hit with a stasis bomb that holds him there for 10,000 years. 

 

Or, someone nearly cuts his head off, and he's thrown into a stasis to preserve him on the edge of life or death (Guilliman's fate and the whole 'cut the head off a serpent' theme.) He is also slowly healing.

 

Yucahu: Is on the edge of the galaxy, finishing the last few battles of the Scouring, when Chaos destroys the Beacon guiding his fleet. He's lost to the Warp until he reappears during the End Times, confusted but ready to fight. (He only experiences the time as a century, maybe less)

 

Niklaas: Disappears in a titanic explosion but is captured. Hadn't picked a party yet.

 

Hectarion: Let's his temper get the better of him and charges headfirst into a trap and goes missing.  It was about here the sermon ended, so I didn't get very far with these last two Loyalists.

 

Reformists & Jackel: Hadn't come up with anything concrete. I am of the opinion that maybe Jackel is the last active Primarch, which explains how the Jackels still maintain their own territory lasting all the way to 40k.

I assume point of no replacement is where we can't transplant another Legion into the setting. So, for example, the Ghost Walkers could perhaps be swapped out with minimal consequence, but the likes of the Godslayers are so deeply embedded that, were Squig to fall under a Warhound tomorrow, we couldn't replace them without making a huge mess.

 

Essentially. As of right now, only two legions are not firmly beyond the Point of No Replacement: Stygian Jackels and Ghost Walkers. Even then, I'm sure that'll change once Depth & Invictus aren't buried in RL stuff. 

Edited April 3, 2016 by simison

[simison]

And it is done. As I would never recommend something before I tried it myself, I asked slaine for a commission of the inner circle and see what I have got.

 

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2016/4/3/789992-Wardens%20of%20Light%20-Inner%20Circle.jpg

 

 

I say: fits perfectly into a fw style rulebook. So commission him or let us gather all onfos for the chars amd make a big whole order^^

 

http://slaine69.deviantart.com/

I can contribute $20 to the cause. If we're aren't going to do a group order, I'm willing to pay for a Book 1 Primarch to put in the rule book.

[Kelborn]

Already wrote him.

He currently prepares a lot for a convention.

But nevertheless he is interested in every commission. Nice guy who is also interested in what you are doing.

Hope that he soon gets the time to work on my order. Can't wait for it and of course I will share it with you although it has nothing to do with our project. ;)

[MikhalLeNoir]

The storm riders could always become a successor of the wardens;)

[simison]

The storm riders could always become a successor of the wardens;)

That'd be ironic, since the Halcyon Wardens used to be known as the Storm Riders

[Kelborn]

 

The storm riders could always become a successor of the wardens;)

That'd be ironic, since the Halcyon Wardens used to be known as the Storm Riders

 

 

Well, let's see if there is some space for the Storm Riders. But that can wait a long time. ;)

Maybe when we're working on the time after the Insurrection.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Irony is the fuel of this universe^^