Crazy HQ Idea

[morroccomole]

So I had a nutty idea for those who want to run Pask in a punisher.

Instead of taking Pask as the Warlord, take a Lord Commissar embedded in a special weapons squad. It seems way cheaper, and if you're running a mech list you won't care to have a CCS. The Lord Commissar even gets senior orders for "Chain of Command," provided you don't have a CCS floating around. And the SWS gives you more bubble wrap around your HQ, with less expense. Flamers would be my ideal squad. It will require the platoon "tax," but that isn't overly expensive, especially when considering you wont be giving up "Slay the Warlord" on turn 2-4, because Pask has to get so close to do anything. The platoon "tax" can even bubble wrap the SWS as it moves up the board, tarpitting deepstrikers or turboboosting bikes.

The trade-offs are the BS4 of a normal CCS, and "Old Grudges" for Pask, since he won't be the warlord. But he will still get all his main gun abilities (Punisher rending on to-hits of 6,) and rerolling armor penetration.

Am I wrong about anything? Does anyone disagree? I'd love criticism. This was just a wacky idea I had this afternoon, to keep the warlord both low-key, and well protected.

[librisrouge]

Does he get the senior officer orders? I didn't think he did but now I have to go look that up. Could be a great idea for an HQ in a mech list that isn't so easy to kill.

 

If you're going pure mech, you can even just put him with a veteran squad (plasma pistol time.) I sometimes just take a tank commander as my HQ, so a better set of warlord traits would be nice.

 

EDIT: I just checked my dex and he has no way to gain the Senior Officer rule and only gains Voice of Command via a 5 or 6 on the IG warlord trait list. Takes a bit out of this idea sadly. Yarrick still rocks though.

[morroccomole]

According to my dex, Lord Commissars get "Chain of Command," where if no one else in your army has "Senior Officer" he does.

I correct myself. He can be warlord as long as no one else has "Senior Officer." That's an important distinction. No orders, just the ability to be warlord.

[morroccomole]

Still, keeping your warlord out of a blob (Commissar in any blob, which can serve it purposes on the frontline), and out of a deathstar-style killing unit (Pask, which will draw attention), and only in a purely defensive unit seems interesting to me. 

​Rope-a-dope the opponent into targeting the hard hitters, while your HQ slinks around and does a few wounds here and there.

[Emicus]

I can't speak for the validity of using the commissar as your warlord, but it does sound like you have reasoned it out and it'd be "easy" to verify if it works or not.

However I question the value in doing it. You're potentially paying a platoon tax (depending on your army build) and a lord commissar tax. This is on top of paying the points for Pask, and losing a large part of what makes him good, the preferred enemy. Wouldn't it be cheaper to just take a demolisher for good AP shooting?

In addition, do you think this will help keep your warlord VP? I can see the merit in spreading your power around, a good tank here that will get shot anyway, a warlord there that is a separate target so both don't go up in smoke with a single melta. But 1 shooting phase from near anything will blow up the unit. And 1 shooting phase from 1 unit for a VP? That's good value. If you place him with conscripts you'll atleast have ablative wounds for days. Or a bunker if you could use any of the upgrades.

[librisrouge]

Along similar lines, why go with a Commissar Lord at all. Perhaps a Primaris Psyker. He can be the warlord. He has one less wound but various power might make him even tougher and, lets face it, almost nobody is bemoaning the staying power of a T3 +5 save model (+4 if you take carapace and your opponent has never heard of power weapons.)

 

This way you get a more useful guy that is equally good at hiding your warlord point.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

In my last game, I used my Lord commissar as my warlord, due to the fact that he was my sole HQ choice, and I put him in my platoon command squad. If you need a cheap HQ, and you're already planning on taking a platoon, sure it works just fine. I would not however advocate taking a platoon just for a SWS, to put the commissar in. That's just me though, I like platoons though so I'm ok with it.

[Frater Cornelius]

Technically, a Lord Com can obtain the ability to give orders with the right Warlord Trait. However, that is not fool proof and he only has one order and no senior officer rule. He will be a Platoon Commander + Commissar.

As for the SWS, the problem is that they can not receive a dedicated Chimera, so they need to snatch one T1. This makes them very vulnerable to pie plates and barrage if you do not have first turn.

 

Frankly, a CCS can still be a budget option, if you do not equip them up the arse. They are still the premier option for order in low point games.

[WarriorFish]

I think most points have been covered. I'd just go with Pask as the Warlord. His bonus is nice and your opponent will be gunning for him for how good he is anyway. If you really want to hide from Slay the Warlord then a cheaper option hiding in a larger squad would be best.

[morroccomole]

Thanks for everyone's feedback! I've been trying to get outside the box, but I'll go back to the codex and keep thinking.

 

I have a lot of trouble against this one marine player. He always brings thunderfire cannons to rip up my blobs, deep strikes combi-meltas in my rear armor, and occasionally spams bikes, which are in my face on turn one. So I was looking for ways to split my threats and VPs around.

[Canadian_F_H]

Oh man... They need to bring back commissar tank hq...

[Frater Cornelius]

God help you if you put a Commissar in a Punisher. If one guy decides to run, you might get half your army executed :D

[Emicus]

How many points?

 

For 1770 you can have
2x HQ Vanquisher w/Battle Tank wingman
4x10 Veterans
6x single Battle Tanks.

Double CaD​

 

Let's see him bring enough combi-melta for 10 russes. Extremely light on upgrades to be sure (there are none), but if you play say 1850 you get some gravy.

 

Veterans used to bubblewrap tanks to take the first volley.

[WarriorFish]

He might not have enough combi-melta, but he'll definitely have enough kraks :P

 

Against an opponent rude enough to try out-gunning the Guard you should respond in kind. See how he likes some real artillery...

[Frater Cornelius]

He might not have enough combi-melta, but he'll definitely have enough kraks

Against an opponent rude enough to try out-gunning the Guard you should respond in kind. See how he likes some real artillery...

Nothing is a match against honest human intolerance backed by a sufficient amount of guns ;)

[CoffeeGrunt]

This is a cool idea, but the CCS is just better, IMO. 35pts cheaper before upgrades, can take a Chimera, gets Senior Officer and the ability to take Advisors, a versatile BS4 squad that can gear up to put down some hurt, and doesn't require a Platoon tax like the SWS would.

 

The SWS just doesn't bring much to the Lord Commissar, and he doesn't bring much to them. If you're paying that much for an Ld10 Morale Machine if he's just buffing a spare 6-man squad rather than a blob. :/

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Oh man... They need to bring back commissar tank hq...

No, Commissar Tank Elites, so we can field more than just 2 BS4 Leman Russes.