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IL XVII - The Warriors of Peace (thread 1)

simison

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simison Venerable Brother

simison

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Ah, that'd be an interesting fight.

 

 

Nian Crown, why the deep strike bonus? I'm trying to picture how that'd fit the original Lu Bu, and I'm not seeing it. Could you explain it to me? 

 

I wanted to make his helmet special in some way to justify including Lu Bu's fancy head-dress but was struggling to think of something, then I had this idea of accompanying Jetbike Squadrons (and maybe Air Masters) dropping in from on high to assist Wang as he leads the charge, but to be honest I don't know if Jetbikes can actually deepstrike, so that was perhaps a foolish decision on my part.

 

 

Red Hare was renowned for its speed and endurance. I don't think the grenade launcher system accurately represents this. Maybe a bonus to movement or Jink? Maybe allow Ju-Long to run and charge or would that be too overpowered?

 

Again, that was me trying justify making Red Hare a unique Jetbike, my thought was that Wang would leave enemies scattered in his wake like Lu did on Red Hare, but because Jetbikes are kinda fragile you can't just ram & trample through people like with a horse, so I figured leaving grenades in his wake ala Swooping Hawks would be a good alternative.

Skilled Rider already grants a bonus +1 to Jink saves, so maybe Turbo Boost instead? (assuming Jetbikes don't have that already)

 

 

I've finally checked the Jetbike entry. No deep strike, but I agree that I'd like to do something with his unique head gear. 

 

...and I really wish the thread would update when someone edits a post. Okay, read the new rules for the Crown. Instead of Stubborn, I think Fear would be much more fitting, given the item description and Lu Bu's effect on his enemies. I'm more curious how the Digital Weapons is supposed to work. 

 

I think the Red Hare granting an invul save is simple but effective. One nitpick, Refractor Fields grant a 5+ Invul, while the Iron Halos grant the 4+ Invul.

 

What about Hit and Run, and then a 'snare' grapple, when resolving a hit and run, a single infantry, Jump infantry or jet pack infantry model in base contact with Ju Long is taken along with them, and then placed within 2" of Ju Long after resolving the hit and run move. This allows you to either pull independent characters out of unit safety, or pull a unit out of cohesionband force a reshuffle.

 

Although amusing, I think it's overly complicated. 

Grifftofer Veteran

Grifftofer

Posted
Posted (edited)

Perhaps a rule that simply gives you a Hammer of Wrath strike when you successfully use Hit and Run (either just for him, or for his unit)? That way he doesn't just get out of combat, but potentially runs people over on the way out http://image.bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png

Edited by Grifftofer
Nomus Sardauk Venerable Brother

Nomus Sardauk

Posted
Posted (edited)

I could throw black pudding at you ^^

 

So be it, Black Puddings at Dawn, Sanguis Extremis. http://image.bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_emoticons/default/furious.gif

 

Ah, that'd be an interesting fight.

 

 

Nian Crown, why the deep strike bonus? I'm trying to picture how that'd fit the original Lu Bu, and I'm not seeing it. Could you explain it to me? 

 

I wanted to make his helmet special in some way to justify including Lu Bu's fancy head-dress but was struggling to think of something, then I had this idea of accompanying Jetbike Squadrons (and maybe Air Masters) dropping in from on high to assist Wang as he leads the charge, but to be honest I don't know if Jetbikes can actually deepstrike, so that was perhaps a foolish decision on my part.

 

 

Red Hare was renowned for its speed and endurance. I don't think the grenade launcher system accurately represents this. Maybe a bonus to movement or Jink? Maybe allow Ju-Long to run and charge or would that be too overpowered?

 

Again, that was me trying justify making Red Hare a unique Jetbike, my thought was that Wang would leave enemies scattered in his wake like Lu did on Red Hare, but because Jetbikes are kinda fragile you can't just ram & trample through people like with a horse, so I figured leaving grenades in his wake ala Swooping Hawks would be a good alternative.

Skilled Rider already grants a bonus +1 to Jink saves, so maybe Turbo Boost instead? (assuming Jetbikes don't have that already)

 

 

I've finally checked the Jetbike entry. No deep strike, but I agree that I'd like to do something with his unique head gear. 

 

...and I really wish the thread would update when someone edits a post. Okay, read the new rules for the Crown. Instead of Stubborn, I think Fear would be much more fitting, given the item description and Lu Bu's effect on his enemies. I'm more curious how the Digital Weapons is supposed to work. 

 

I think the Red Hare granting an invul save is simple but effective. One nitpick, Refractor Fields grant a 5+ Invul, while the Iron Halos grant the 4+ Invul. 

 

I'd considered Fear but I given that his usual opponents would be other Legionnaires that all have Know No Fear I didn't know if it would have much effect. Digital Weapons basically allow you to re-roll one failed To Wound roll per turn in CC, if my memory serves and GW haven't changed what they do whilst I wasn't looking.

 

Refractor Fields are only a 5+? Huh, okay then, that's probably for the best actually, Wang is a bit of a monster right now and I don't want him to end up a Mary-Sue, so making him a smidge squishier might be for the best, on that same note I'd also considered bumping his suit down to standard Power Armour rather than Artificer but was debating whether that would make sense given that even Tactical Sergeants can take AA in the Heresy rules.

 

Also, I forgot to ask before but what do you think of his name; Wang Ju-Long? I think it's correct according to Chinese naming conventions (good lord they're complicated) with the surname first, then forename following as such. I chose his names based on their meaning, with Wang meaning "King" and Ju-Long "Powerful Dragon."

 

Perhaps a rule that simply gives you a Hammer of Wrath strike when you successfully use Hit and Run (either just for him, or for his unit)? That way he doesn't just get out of combat, but potentially runs people over on the way out http://image.bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png

 

That could work, perhaps it could be tied-in to Red Hare somehow? Some kinda of mechanism that grants the HoW when he disengages?

Edited by SanguiniusReborn
simison Venerable Brother

simison

Posted
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Perhaps a rule that simply gives you a Hammer of Wrath strike when you successfully use Hit and Run (either just for him, or for his unit)? That way he doesn't just get out of combat, but potentially runs people over on the way out http://image.bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png

 

That, I like. Not too complicated but incredibly unique and represents Ju-Long's brash nature.

 

 

I'd considered Fear but I given that his usual opponents would be other Legionnaires that all have Know No Fear I didn't know if it would have much effect. Digital Weapons basically allow you to re-roll one failed To Wound roll per turn in CC, if my memory serves and GW haven't changed what they do whilst I wasn't looking.

 

Not so in 30k. ATSKNF doesn't exist here. So, Fear is actually much more effective. And I understand what the rule does, but I meant how does it work from a fluff perspective. Does he shoot lazers from his eyes?

 

Refractor Fields are only a 5+? Huh, okay then, that's probably for the best actually, Wang is a bit of a monster right now and I don't want him to end up a Mary-Sue, so making him a smidge squishier might be for the best, on that same note I'd also considered bumping his suit down to standard Power Armour rather than Artificer but was debating whether that would make sense given that even Tactical Sergeants can take AA in the Heresy rules.

 

The +1 Toughness is going to give him some survivability. What else he has above that, I leave to you. Just no 3+ Invuls.

 

Also, I forgot to ask before but what do you think of his name; Wang Ju-Long? I think it's correct according to Chinese naming conventions (good lord they're complicated) with the surname first, then forename following as such. I chose his names based on their meaning, with Wang meaning "King" and Ju-Long "Powerful Dragon."

 

I find it very fitting, but I'm inclined to use Ju-Long because I like typing that more than Wang. Yes, I'm racist like that.

Nomus Sardauk Venerable Brother

Nomus Sardauk

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Posted (edited)

I'd considered Fear but I given that his usual opponents would be other Legionnaires that all have Know No Fear I didn't know if it would have much effect. Digital Weapons basically allow you to re-roll one failed To Wound roll per turn in CC, if my memory serves and GW haven't changed what they do whilst I wasn't looking.

 

Not so in 30k. ATSKNF doesn't exist here. So, Fear is actually much more effective. And I understand what the rule does, but I meant how does it work from a fluff perspective. Does he shoot lazers from his eyes?

 

Ah, I was not aware of that, well then that makes this much simpler, Fear it is! And yes, the Digi-Weapons are built around the eyes of the Nian Crown, for dramatic effect.

 

 

Refractor Fields are only a 5+? Huh, okay then, that's probably for the best actually, Wang is a bit of a monster right now and I don't want him to end up a Mary-Sue, so making him a smidge squishier might be for the best, on that same note I'd also considered bumping his suit down to standard Power Armour rather than Artificer but was debating whether that would make sense given that even Tactical Sergeants can take AA in the Heresy rules.

 

The +1 Toughness is going to give him some survivability. What else he has above that, I leave to you. Just no 3+ Invuls.

 

Roger that, no 3+ Invuls. Well, seeing as he's only got a 5+ from the Refractor Field I think I'll stick with the AA so he can last in duels with other characters, 3+ just won't cut it.

 

 

Also, I forgot to ask before but what do you think of his name; Wang Ju-Long? I think it's correct according to Chinese naming conventions (good lord they're complicated) with the surname first, then forename following as such. I chose his names based on their meaning, with Wang meaning "King" and Ju-Long "Powerful Dragon."

 

I find it very fitting, but I'm inclined to use Ju-Long because I like typing that more than Wang. Yes, I'm racist like that.

 

 

Heh, I thought that might come up, I admit I was a little wary of using Wang given the obvious jokes that could be made but I thought Wang Ju-Long flowed off the tongue fairly well and I eventually grew too used to it to change unless someone like yourself had a problem with it. http://image.bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png

 

-----

 

Okay, here's the good Captain's updated profile, lemme know what you think.

 

Captain Wang Ju-Long: 

Duizhu (Captain) of the Eighth Company, the Flying Captain, Master of the Cavalry.

 

WS  BS  S  T  W  I  A  LD  Sv

6      4    5   5  4   6  4  10   2+

 

Unit Type: Jetbike (Character)

 

Wargear: Sky Piercer, the Nian Crown, Artificer Armour, Red Hare, Bolt Pistol, Frag & Krak Grenades, Melta Bombs.

 

Warlord Trait: Paragon of Glory.

 

Special Rules: Legiones Astartes (Warriors of Peace), Independent Character, Hit and Run, Skilled Rider, Prideful, Whirlwind Of Steel, Gun It.

 

Prideful: Wang must always issue a challenge in close combat if possible.

 

Whirlwind Of Steel: Instead of making his normal attacks, Wang can instead choose to whirl Sky Piercer in an arc . If he does so, he inflicts a single automatic hit on all enemy models in base contact. Declare whether Wang will perform a Whirlwind Of Steel of before any blows are struck.

 

Gun It: When Ju-Long successfully disengages from a combat using Hit and Run the unit/model he was engaged with suffers D3 Hammer of Wrath hits to represent him trampling the enemy beneath Red Hare as he makes his escape.

 

Sky Piercer: Wang's favoured tool of destruction and forged to his exacting specifications, Sky Piercer is a unique Power Halberd based on a Jin weapon known as a Ji. Custom-built to suit Wang's fighting style, Sky Piercer boasts a pair of elegant crescent Power Blades on either side of the shaft suited for slashing while also mounting a high-powered Shock Lance on the end for use in Cavalry charges. As such, Sky Piercer uses two weapon profiles:

 

Weapon                         Range     S       AP    Type                                  

Sky Piercer (Shock Lance)   -            +2     2       Melee, Charge Turn Only, Concussive,

                                                                            Master-Crafted.

Sky Piercer (Halberd)  -                     +1     2       Melee, Unwieldy, Master-Crafted.

 

The Nian Crown: A beautifully crafted MK.IV helmet fashioned for Wang upon his ascension to the rank of Duizhu, the Nian Crown is fashioned in the likeness of the Leonine beasts of Jin's mountainous regions and boasts a pair of magnificent Giant Rainbird feathers that trail behind Wang's head like wind-blown antennae. The Crown's true worth however comes in the form of it's hidden Digital Weapons, allowing Wang to re-roll one failed To Wound roll per turn, and it's terrifying visage, granting Ju-Long the Fear USR.

 

Red Hare: Wang's faithful steed, the Red Hare is modified Scimitar Jetbike armed with a nose-mounted Heavy Bolter and a Refractor Field, conferring Wang a 5+ Invulnerable Save. As a Jetbike Red Hare also bestows Wang with the Hammer of Wrath, Jink & Relentless USR.

 

Both a legend & oddity amongst the taciturn sons of the XVIIth Legion, Captain, or Duizhu, to use the original Jin title, Wang Ju-Long is a warrior renowned throughout the Legion Astartes for his skill-at-arms and prodigious roll of honour, while not tactically astute, his prowess in combat is such as to be the only man to have ever bested the great Yoxer Bellows of the VIth in mounted combat. Unlike his brother-legionnaires Wang is known to be exceptionally battle-hungry, relishing in the brutal thrill of war and delights in leading Squadrons of Jetbikes in devastating strikes from the heavens, driving the enemy before them like the storied horsemen of yore. But it is the challenge of single combat that truly sets his blood afire, Wang's warrior pride burns fiercely, and he will never pass up a challenge, regardless of how inadvisable it might be.

 

However Captain Ju-Long's reputation is not all honours and accolades, as those who have had the dubious pleasure of being in his presence can often attest. Amongst a Legion known for the serenity and logical mindset of it's soldiers Wang is possessed of a fiery, almost arrogant demeanour, openly boastful and often expressing contempt for those he deems lacking in some form or another. While those who do meet his lofty expectations he treats with all respect befitting an equal, it is often only grudgingly so, and such individuals are often few and far between. Wang's caustic demeanour is such that even the Jade General cannot stand his presence long, and were it not for his unrivalled tally of victories and mystifying habit of prevailing against impossible odds through sheer audacity Wang would surely have been stripped of his command, banished or both. Fortunately for the young Captain his skill and luck has held thus far and he continues to accumulate success and glory in equal measure, but time will tell if his prosperity will last or if the coming Insurrection will see his rising star snuffed out...

Edited by SanguiniusReborn
simison Venerable Brother

simison

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I'm comparing his profile to a Praetor.

 

Praetor - 100 points

Jetbike - 45 points

Refractor Field - 10 points

Power Weapon - 15 points

Master Crafted - 5 points

Digital Weapons - 15 points

 

So, just equipment-wise, he's at 190 points before we even reach the special rules. Given the fact he's going to be a jetbike character, he was always going to be expensive, but I'd like to keep him around the 215 mark. 

 

Skilled Rider - 15 points

Hit and Run - 15 points

Prideful - [-5 points]

Whirlwind of Steel - 15 points

 

Unfortunately, most of his special rules are high-quality. I'm estimating him at 230 points as of now. I suggest removing the Digital Weapons, at the very least, to bring him back down. Not to mention, he already has Master-Crafted. 

 

And the name should stay the same. 

bluntblade Venerable Brother

bluntblade

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

 

Damn...and now I know why british cuisine has such a bad reputation....

And yes.....I guess so

what are you talking about? Black pudding and british cuisine is delicious!
Only after armageddon
I'd walk across Armageddon with a lasting if you told me there was black pudding on the other side.

 

I guess any other named officers will be mostly based on buffing their troops?

 

 

 

 

Hey, someone that can go against Innorvak, very nice.

Who?
Dominator Riktus Innorvak, Cthonian by birth, former member of the Shepards of Eden and now the brutal commander of the Berzerker's fearsome Destroyer contingent, the Blood Boilers.

And as of the Siege of Cadia, the killer of the Crimson Lions' Myrvallen Karakal. Two Terminators duelling in a narrow alley gets very, very messy.

Edited by bluntblade
MikhalLeNoir Venerable Brother

MikhalLeNoir

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Posted

My oh my....too many followers of khorne here. Ecerybody wants to eat some blood....yuk....where is my chop suey crew when I need them?

 

By the way we have in germany something similar. "Blutwurst" it is disgusting as well. Some claim to mix it with potatoes and put it in the oven so you get "himmel und erd"="heaven and earth". Somehow it fits to the discussion here. I like wang ju long^^

Doctor Perils Venerable Brother

Doctor Perils

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Posted

My oh my....too many followers of khorne here. Ecerybody wants to eat some blood....yuk....where is my chop suey crew when I need them?

 

By the way we have in germany something similar. "Blutwurst" it is disgusting as well. Some claim to mix it with potatoes and put it in the oven so you get "himmel und erd"="heaven and earth". Somehow it fits to the discussion here. I like wang ju long^^

Black pudding is great, and it is not exclusive to british cuisine (which is also great) If you haven't tasted it, you really can't know. I haven't ever tried Blutwurst, but it doesn't seem to be exactly like black pudding, so you might like "boudin noir" (which is the same as black pudding)

 

Before making fun of british cuisine, you might consider having meals that aren't 70% bread-based :P

Nomus Sardauk Venerable Brother

Nomus Sardauk

Posted
Posted

 

 

Now then, what Warlord Trait should he have?

Master Tactician would feel appropriate, though Paladin of Glory could work too if you want to focus more on that aspect.

You'll have to explain what they do I'm afraid, I've not got a copy of the rules to work with here. Paladin of Glory sounds promising, but Master Tactician sounds like it goes against Ju-Long's character, he prefers to leave matters of strategy to his lieutenants, the actual fighting is his only concern and he wins most of his battles through his immense skill-at-arms and sheer audacity rather than cunning.

Grifftofer Veteran

Grifftofer

Posted
Posted

 

 

Now then, what Warlord Trait should he have?

Master Tactician would feel appropriate, though Paladin of Glory could work too if you want to focus more on that aspect.

You'll have to explain what they do I'm afraid, I've not got a copy of the rules to work with here. Paladin of Glory sounds promising, but Master Tactician sounds like it goes against Ju-Long's character, he prefers to leave matters of strategy to his lieutenants, the actual fighting is his only concern and he wins most of his battles through his immense skill-at-arms and sheer audacity rather than cunning.

 

Sorry. I completely forgot I hadn't replied to this :S

 

Master Tactician allows you to redeploy a unit before the first turn, so you can move it into/out of reserves or to somewhere else in your deployment area. I thought of this as more Lightning reactions and fast redeployment due to the jetbike rather than grand strategic ability.

 

Paragon of Glory gives Fearless and the Warlord and units within 6" count as having caused an extra wound when calculating who has won combat. This one is much more self explanatory :P

Nomus Sardauk Venerable Brother

Nomus Sardauk

Posted
Posted
Hmm, so Master Tactician could work well with Ju-Long despite the title contradicting the fluff, whereas Paragon of Glory I see only really affecting Ju-Long himself unless he's accompanied by a Skyhunter Squadron. Most of the tine he's gonna be flying around solo wreaking havoc rather than hanging around other friendly units to keep them in that 6" bubble, so I would if it'll be worth it...
Nomus Sardauk Venerable Brother

Nomus Sardauk

Posted
Posted (edited)

I prefer fluff over practicality, which is why Irvin has the 'Child of Terra' warlord trait. I think Ju-Long should get Paragon of Glory.

 

I definitely agree with you on that, Paragon it is. That just leaves us with one final detail to work out, the bill. How many points will the good Captain cost to field?

 

Nevermind, you already worked that out, 215pts it is.

http://i.imgur.com/Xnoix.jpg

Edited by SanguiniusReborn
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