Help me workshop a potential house rule

[Icarus1138]

I enjoy Primarchs in 30k.

 

I think they have interesting rules, great models, and a lot of character. That said, I'd like to make the way in which their presence is represented on the tabletop a little more flexible, especially for narrative and campaign games. As they are represented now, we see them in person in direct command of a force of Astartes (or in Angron's case fighting alongside some of his sons by coincidence). This is a valuable depiction! It's Horus leading a boarding assault, Ferrus on the fields of Istvaan V, Angron on Istvaan III, or Dorn personally ending the last defenders of a non-compliant world. Great, cinematic fun.

 

That's only half of a Primarch's role, however. What about the many times a Primarch is present and commanding a battle, but is doing so from the CIC of a warship, or is leading a frontal attack while your small force represents the flank? I'd like a quick and easy way to represent being under the personal command of a Primarch without that individual literally standing amongst your force. Here's my rough idea:

 

A Father's Command

A Primarch may be selected as a non-compulsory HQ choice at one-third their point cost, rounding up. If selected in this manner, it represents the Primarch taking personal command of the force but not being physically present in the area represented by your gaming space. They are not deployed as a model, but rather your force benefits from any army or detachment-wide rules the Primarch bestows as if they were in play. This includes benefits granted by the Primarch being your Warlord, even though they will not be fulfilling that role in this battle.

 

 

 

What do you all think? I'm sure it needs tweaking, and it is explicitly not intended to be equally balanced across Primarchs. Obviously Horus makes better use of this rule than Corax, that is intentional. What would you all change to make this an excellent addition to a game? Or is it too unbalanced to be used at all?

[Son of Carnelian]

Well, what about radius powers? Like "within X inches." And can I buy Corax at his reduced Istvaan points cost and then take him as a commander in that fashion? Because that would give him a HUGE edge over other commanders.

 

Do they still count as a Lord of War? Or are they now purely an HQ choice?

[Icarus1138]

Any "within x radius" effects would be out, just as "any unit he joins" rules would no longer apply. Same with Lorgar's line of sight buffs.

 

Good question, I'd lock the points cost as 1/3rd the base cost, no upgrades or downgrades permitted.

 

They would purely be a non-compulsory HQ choice.

 

To reiterate however, I'm also looking for feedback. What do you think the fine print should be?

[Son of Carnelian]

Dunno. I'm much more of a fluff than crunch guy, but I love the principle of it. I think for some primarchs (like Angron) who would not benefit enormously from this, you should maybe (MAYBE) let your opponent re-roll his warlord trait? Like, the warlord of the force is so inspired by his primarch's presence? Or give a player who selects this option, regardless of primarch, an orbital strike to represent the primarch stationed with the fleet above? The thing about this rule is that, as you said, it directly benefits certain primarchs over others. Maybe, like certain Rites of War, you should not have the option of picking allies? Just spitballing ideas here.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Primarchs never get warlord traits (except fulgrim) but must be your warlord; the sire of the legion plus buffs are essentially their warlord traits. If you're going to be paying for their effects I don't think you should be able to stack warlord traits on top of them 

[Icarus1138]

I understand that Primarchs never get traditional Warlord traits. I was referring to Primarch bonuses that are specified as taking effect if they are your warlord. As an example, Night Haunter's rules state "a force containing him as its Warlord may always elect to have the first turn of any game use the Night Fighting rule". My rule as suggested is meant to provide bonuses of that nature to the army even though the model isn't on the table and isn't serving as the Warlord.

 

I think it's reasonable that strategic and operational bonuses of that nature could be used by forces even if the Primarch isn't in the line of battle. To give a more concrete example:

 

Let's say I want to play a game in which Horus has decided to personally oversee the destruction of a Loyalist stronghold, using his personal guard to strike the blow. His fleet arrives in orbit and Horus calls down to threaten the Loyalist commander, then orders his First Captain to bring him the enemy commander's head while Horus has overall command of the spearhead attack and the numerous diversionary strikes, commanding from the Vengeful Spirit.

 

Normally this would be represented by taking Abaddon and the Pride of the Legion RoW (if you want to load up on Terminators) or Orbital Assault (if you want to depict the force's arrival via teleportation and drop pod).  This doesn't do anything to reflect the fact that Horus is watching like a hawk and speaking straight into his troops ears, as well as setting up the overall battle in their favor. By paying an additional 167 points and filling an HQ slot, my suggested rule would let you:

• Outflank with reserves.
• Bump everyone's Ld by 1.
• Seize the Initiative on a 4+
• Take Justaerin as Troops.

I think this is a cool and easy way to represent Horus' personal command and planning without paying 500 points or putting a LoW on the table. My question to everyone is, does this sound cool? Over/underpowered? Priced incorrectly?

 

Son of Carnelian, those are great suggestions. It's true that some Primarchs benefit less, Angron in particular would give zero bonuses to his army. I actually like that from a fluff perspective, as I think he would literally not improve performance from a distance. You're right that he might inspire the commander not to screw up though. Perhaps a blanket buff when using this rule, like giving some buff to any Warlord like you suggested.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Oh I understand what you're saying, I'm probably just being pedantic; Primarchs have to be the warlord so the quote you used for Curze is a bit redundant. Again, pedantry as it doesn't change your intent for the rules,

 

That being said, I'd remove the ability to have a warlord trait on your warlord as you're paying to get the Primarch's. Honest Abe can still nominally be in command of your hypothetical strike force and the enemy would get a reward for slaying him, but Horus is calling the shots.

 

As a few examples consider a Death Guard list with Morturg as the Warlord (for Master of Ambush) plus Mortarion's boost for stubborn and Poison, or an Iron Hands with Orth and Ferrus, and Eidolon and Fulgrim.

 

However there's two in particular that are just too good not to take for at most 150pts. Perturabo for his reserves, Stubborn, Terminator Deepstrike and furious charge and Alpharius for his....everything are auto includes. Especially Alpharius, whos plethora of buffs is offset by his over 400 pt cost, now you can get him for 138. Perhaps make him 1/2 his default cost. Same with Fulgrim as he's dirt cheap for a primarch already with an amazing amount of buffs (and a real warlord trait that'll probably be Master of Ambush)

[Kor'Vesh]

Yeah, I think you have a cool idea and a cool way of delivering it to the table - however a blanket approach to the primarchs just won't work. You should probably set the price on a primarch by primarch basis and possibly modify those rules that require modification. Use the exisiting 1/3 points as a baseline, and the exisiting rules as a baseline, but tweak as required.

 

So, you might decide that Alpharius and Perturabo are worth more than 1/3 of their points in this external role (which seems plausible). You might decide the World Eaters should have the option too, and devise a buff for the Angron being in command, and set a lower price for this - maybe each world eaters infantry unit is fearless on a 5+ each turn, or you could chose a unit to benefit from fearless, as Angron directs his enraged ramblings at them from space.

 

Regardless - i think each primarch will require some level of individual attention, and you may need to consider a balance for the fact that the rules can't be removed as the primarch can't be killed!

[Saphrael]

I love the idea and it's something that should be possible, but your Horus example is a perfect reason why you need to tweak the points per primarch, rather than apply a blanket 30% cost. 167 points for Horus' army buffs is crazy cheap.