Azarians Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Hello B&C !! Guardsmen, I need your help !!! I play with my new list but i have some problems for handle it... I play with an Ork but i lose again and again.. :( So if you can help me for my deployment and if you can give me some adivce, it would be great !! :) I play with Pask in Punisher (2 Multimeltas, and lascannon) with an executionner full plasma, one squad of vets in chimera (with 2 plasmas), 2 basilisks, one LR punisher full heavy bolters, one platoon of 2 guardsmen (one flamer, 2 grenad lauchers) and 30 conscripts with priest ! :) My friend play with a battlewagon with tankbustas inside, one squad of trukboyz with his warboss and a painboy, 5 bikes, 2 buggies, 3 lobbas, gretchins and some stormboyz and kommandos... I don't know how to deal with it... So i need your help please ;) Thanks you ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312349-the-imperial-guard-need-help/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I think this should be in the general Guard section where you can discuss tactics etc, so I'm moving it for you Sounds like your opponent has got a pretty capable list; he's getting plenty of models on the table with some capability. Could you give us more information on how he runs his units for example klaws etc? Is this about 1250pts or so? I think the problem is a bad match up, I'm guessing you can't stop his tankbustas from hitting Pask and from there its downhill? Tankbustas are pretty good from what I know, though I'm not up on the specifics so you're making his life easier with Pask as not only is it the prime target but also a fair chunk of your points and effectiveness. Bassies may struggle as his army is going to close on you as quickly as possible and a Punisher without BS3 is lacklustre so if possible I'd look at changing these out. Your Platoon and conscripts are perfect for screening your expensive vehicles, but this has to be more than simply absorbing his charges as they won't last long. The trick with Orks is to thin the horde before they hit efficiently as to delay it as much as possible but more importantly control where it hits. The more information you can give us the better the advice will be Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312349-the-imperial-guard-need-help/#findComment-4145972 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azarians Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 Thanks you WarriorFish ^^ Hum yes we play with 1250 points, so his tankbustas are in the battlewagon, 12 shoots but his tankbustas don't really hurt my lemans, the problems are the chokboyz, the kommandos and the truk with his warboss, boyz with 4+ and painboy (this squad can destroy my Pask ) He plays 5 bikes, 2 buggies and 3 lobbas, they kill my platoon and my conscripts, so nobody can protect my leman But i need to handle my list, i think that i can win with it, but i need to practice and to learn how to play with it.. For the deployment, I think i need to deploy the basilisks behind, in front of the basilisks i need to put my lemans and in front of my leman, i need to put my guardsmen. I think i must kill his trukk with my punisher, maybe i will put mutimeltas and lascannon on it, Pask, the basilisks and my executionner must kill the chokboyz and the kommandos turn 1... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312349-the-imperial-guard-need-help/#findComment-4146004 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Guard are not as easy to handle as people may think. I know I needed a few tries before I got the hang of it and I like to see myself as somewhat of an advanced player. The main thing you need to do is think further than a pig jumps. Think ahead to the opponent's next turn, then you turn after that and the opponent's turn after that before making your move. Every move has a consequence. Some factions are not affected as much due to their forgiving toughness, but Guard need that forethought given their relative fragility. Next one is correct distribution of firepower. You have limited amounts of guns at your disposal, use them wisely. For example, when playing against a fully mechanized White Scars Battle Company, I was thinking the following: 1. Does he have an exposed Grav Cannon in range? If yes, can I kill it using one unit that can not kill tanks and has no other options? If yes, I shoot it. If there is a Rhino in range, can I kill it with one unit? Can I follow up with an anti-infantry unit after that? Then I do it. If the answer would no, then I look at the next best alternative. For example, if I have the change of killing a Rhino or a Grav unit but not the Grav unit inside, I will not waste firepower on the Rhino, seeing as the change of killing 4-5 dudes is higher than him failing a pinning check. That is the sort of thinking I do when deciding to shoot something. Shooting wildly around you like an ADD SM does not help Guard. And finally, you need the correct distribution of firepower in your army, as well as support. On the first glance, the list looks fine, so I can not comment on that one too well right now. Anyway, so much about playing Guard ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312349-the-imperial-guard-need-help/#findComment-4146231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Your Bassies want to be as far back as possible, so your deployment general plan is good. Bassies are strong at S9 and ordnance so you've good odds at splatting some xenos vehicles (remember the barrage rule!), try and remove his mobility the first turn. Then he'd be forced to run up the table which will buy you time. Perhaps something like an Eradicator or Wyverns to splatter his bikers before they hit your lines? Practice is definitely the best method to improve, as well as learning your army as you play more. Last but not least a firm grasp of the rules is an essential part of any good player so when in doubt sit down and read your codex or the rule book :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312349-the-imperial-guard-need-help/#findComment-4146274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@verik115 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Make pask punisher full heavy bolters, remove the 2 basilisks, remove executioner, arm vets with autocannon, remove second punisher, add several normal leman russ and more veterans preferably with autocannons and chimeras. I have never had a list like that lose to orks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312349-the-imperial-guard-need-help/#findComment-4146343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truesight Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 What other models in your collection do you have to draw from? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312349-the-imperial-guard-need-help/#findComment-4146475 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azarians Posted August 15, 2015 Author Share Posted August 15, 2015 In my collection i have : 2 basilisks, one chimera, Pask in punisher, a punisher, an executionner, 30 conscripts, a priest, 25 guardsmen, 10 veterans, one Valkyrie, 3 autocannons.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312349-the-imperial-guard-need-help/#findComment-4147038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emicus Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Could get the plane on the board if you drop all the sponson weapons and tweak a bit. Something to consider anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312349-the-imperial-guard-need-help/#findComment-4147148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truesight Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Not sure on your groups opinion on proxy's, but changing the basilisks to wyverns would add a lot, as they murder orks. Next I'd put flamers everywhere I could, and try and flame his open top vehicles, you will devastate the passengers. Also try eradicators, they are cheap and will bring the pain to his bikes as they are ap4 ignores cover. As an optional list: No force org- Priest Hq- Pask, punisher with multimeltas and las cannon Executioner with plasma sponsons and heavy bolter Troops Veterans 2 plasma , 1 flamer chimera with multi laser and heavy bolter Infantry platoon 20 conscripts Squad with flamer and auto cannon Squad with flamer and auto cannon platoon command squad 3x flamers Fast attack Valkyrie with rocket pods Heavy support Wyvern Wyvern Eradicator, hull heavy bolter, sponson heavy bolters Try to kill his mobility first, so bikes and trukks. Layer your defences, so conscripts, then platoons, then your tanks. Deploy the infantry forward and spread out so he had to charge them, to give your big guns time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312349-the-imperial-guard-need-help/#findComment-4147226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azarians Posted August 15, 2015 Author Share Posted August 15, 2015 Thanjs you for your list Truesight ^^ But do you think that my old list can work ? I think that i need some advices for my strategies.. :/ For 1250 points, 2 basilisks are good ? Or it's really bad and why not take a manticore with a wyvern ? Thanks you all Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312349-the-imperial-guard-need-help/#findComment-4147352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truesight Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Basilisks can do well, a little overpriced in my opinion but Orks aren't their preferred prey. Your list is actually really good at smashing marines. You have a great amount of ap 3 and ap2 to make a mess of elite armies. My best strategic advice would be to get your target priority in mind and stick to it. Start shooting with the weapons most likely to kill your target and move down. The war boss truck for me needs to die first, a walking war boss is a useless one. Your basilisks would be very useful killing the unit afterwards as the strength 9 will negate his pain boy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312349-the-imperial-guard-need-help/#findComment-4147385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azarians Posted August 15, 2015 Author Share Posted August 15, 2015 Thanks you ^^ in a game, i focus on the truck, i killed it turn 1, but his chokboys and kommandos destroyed my lines, so i don't know ht to deal with chokboyz, kommandos and truk in the same turn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312349-the-imperial-guard-need-help/#findComment-4147411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Something I noticed about your list, is the general lack of Anti-armor. That Battlewagon is a tough one to deal with. If he runs his tank bustas in the battlewagon you want to deal with that quickly and efficiently. A tank commander with a vanquisher, and a couple of regular battletanks should do the trick. Backed up with some deep strike melta. I know you don't have the models, but it's stuff to think about to expand. You want to make those tankbustas walk, so you get more turns shooting at them. The Vanquisher and the battlecannons can hit from across the board, so get clear lines of sight and let that battlewagon have it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312349-the-imperial-guard-need-help/#findComment-4149084 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azarians Posted August 17, 2015 Author Share Posted August 17, 2015 Oh yes but do you think that a squadron of vanqisher can really works ? Maybe with a primaris psyker ? And why not 2 hellound for 1500 points ? I really need to learn how to play well t 40k, i'm a beginner.. XD Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312349-the-imperial-guard-need-help/#findComment-4149365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Hm, long ranged AV14 busting is tricky with IG. Vanquishers might be your best option, with a Primaris, but the lower the enemy AV drops, the less useful they become. Personally, I do not see a BW with Bustaz as such a massive threat to you at 1500pts. One volley with Pask might just be enough to glance it to death with the Punisher and his rules. I would work around him with clever positioning instead of trying to hard-counter AV14, because most of the time the thing that couters AV14 is less useful in most other scenarios. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312349-the-imperial-guard-need-help/#findComment-4149384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azarians Posted August 17, 2015 Author Share Posted August 17, 2015 Ok thanks you for your advice ^^ But i have some question, can i put Pask and my leman russ on the frontline with my infantry behind ? Or my leman russ must stay behind them ? Because i hav some problem, i think that i don't play Pask very good Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312349-the-imperial-guard-need-help/#findComment-4149430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Depends. For example, if I am facing loads of Melta Pods, I put all infantry at the front to protect tanks by not letting them get within 6". If I am facing loads of Grav Cannons and Bolters, I put expendable transports at the front, so when it wrecks, the dudes disembark forward (I usually put them sideways), the footmen hide behind the transports and the important tanks are behind cover. If I am facing loads of S7, I put my AV14 at the front, since they are immune to it and the rest hides behind them. Assess th threat and counter it ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312349-the-imperial-guard-need-help/#findComment-4149446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azarians Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 It's ok thanks you ! So against his ork army, i will put all my leman russ on the frontline, try to kill trukk, chokboyz and kommandos then back and let the soldiers go ahead ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312349-the-imperial-guard-need-help/#findComment-4149892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Be careful that this doesn't expose you to getting charged, all tanks are weak to assault. Try to make use of terrain too, slow his advance that way and retain your mobility - one of the things you pay for on a Russ is the Heavy rule that lets you fire and move more effectively so keep that distance between you and use it to control his advance. Mobility wins wars when matched with fire power, keep your firing lanes open and a healthy gap between your lines as long as possible and you'll do better :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312349-the-imperial-guard-need-help/#findComment-4149933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azarians Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 Ok thanks you ! So i put my leman on the frontline and they will back each turn, and when he is too cloose, i set my soldiers and let them die for the Emperor while my leman are safe :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312349-the-imperial-guard-need-help/#findComment-4149941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azarians Posted August 20, 2015 Author Share Posted August 20, 2015 So I played with my friend and the imperial guard loses again but there are somethings to notice: -I changed my list, i took 3 autocannons team in each squad of my platoon, and i dropped 10 conscripts, so i have more firepower ^^ -I done a vey big mistake, Pask was in a wrong orientation, so his lootas and his tankbustas destroy him, so now i won't do the same mistake !! The autocannon teams are very great, and for 1500 points i will add a primaris pysker and some sentinels, what do you think about it ? Thanks you ^^ Ps: Oh yes, my friend noticed that my chimera with vet's doesn't do anything in each game.. And i don't really how i must use it.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312349-the-imperial-guard-need-help/#findComment-4151855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 My Vets are "trouble consultants". Wherever there is the most trouble then go in and sort it out. Generally this means either trundling forth to intercept and destroy something or hanging back as a reserve to commit once I know what's going on. With plasma they want elite/tough units to shoot but they can handle light armour well too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312349-the-imperial-guard-need-help/#findComment-4152337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azarians Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 Ok thanks you ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312349-the-imperial-guard-need-help/#findComment-4152389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 My Vets are "trouble consultants". Wherever there is the most trouble then go in and sort it out. Generally this means either trundling forth to intercept and destroy something or hanging back as a reserve to commit once I know what's going on. With plasma they want elite/tough units to shoot but they can handle light armour well too. Vet Inc. You have got a problem? We have experience in these things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312349-the-imperial-guard-need-help/#findComment-4152460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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