InquisitorBlack Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I have to admit, when the new BA dex came out, I really got behind Mephiston. I supported his use on the forums and ran him in 5 tournaments (one of which I won).However, since the release of the new Marines, Meph has really started to fade in attractiveness when compared to Tiggy, Lib conclave, Ezekiel and Gk grand masters.Ezekiel is 30 points cheaper than Meph and is almost better than him in every way. With his +attack aura, Ezekiel is amazing when supporting almost any DA power unit. 3 rolls on a tree makes him feel a lot more reliable Meph who only has 2 rolls.As a Blood Angel player at heart, it feels sad to shelve Meph. It's a shame they couldn't have made Sanguine sword a relic and given 3 rolls like Tiggy or Zeeks.How are other people finding Meph a solid 6 months in?? Is he finding value or gathering dust?? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312385-mephiston-from-chevalier-to-shelved/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riot Earp Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I field him from time to time. Mostly in Deadstars (5 cents with tiggi dante and priest) or BA Assaultterminators (Hammertime) in a Landraider with a priest and Astra Militarum Priest for Savereroll. He is good against Wraiths hell he evenkilled once an Imperial Knight in one CC Round. :D He wil die to fast within a weak unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312385-mephiston-from-chevalier-to-shelved/#findComment-4146515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 He's just set to a different standard of game, but he has his uses. Mephiston is all about himself. S10 buff, Quickening, then maybe a good bio roll and you are trucking. He doesn't offer the army much like the other ML3s but he does offer a superb beat stick capable of blasting even Knights away in single combat. He's basically a way to make that deathstar ensure they will do damage. I'd imagine it's intended that Mephiston has 3 powers and his sword one, but sadly the rules are poorly written :P in my opinion for his cost you shouldve just been stuck to Sanguinary (quite fluffy, seeing as he has mastered the aspects of being a scion of Sanguinius) but he gets to choose his powers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312385-mephiston-from-chevalier-to-shelved/#findComment-4146547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitorBlack Posted August 14, 2015 Author Share Posted August 14, 2015 Yeah his S10 is nice, but a GK Grandmaster with a thunderhammer has S8 (or 10 if he rolls hammerhand) anyway... at AP2, which is huge. I feel like Meph is such a small distance off being *good*. A third open spell, his sword being AP2... even an extra wound would help so much. This sucks given that the other chapters' *normal* stuff is also pretty much better than ours. There are only 1-2 little niche things that set us apart, and even that is arguable. Meph's S10 with lots of attacks definitely allows him to smash through Knights, Wraithknights, etc, which sets him apart from normal Level 2s... but Tiggy or Ezekiel have a really good chance to roll up Iron Arm (especially Tiggy) which gives them that capacity anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312385-mephiston-from-chevalier-to-shelved/#findComment-4146558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Not entirely seeing the point of this thread. If your Mephiston is gathering dust, who are you using instead? Or are you asking us who we use instead? If this is just a thread for you to vent that other Factions have newer toys, then I very much doubt this thread will last very long. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312385-mephiston-from-chevalier-to-shelved/#findComment-4146563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitorBlack Posted August 14, 2015 Author Share Posted August 14, 2015 There is a question at the bottom of my OP. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312385-mephiston-from-chevalier-to-shelved/#findComment-4146565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riot Earp Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 If you roll bio you could possible geht smash and therefore ap2. But i like him with sangupower. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312385-mephiston-from-chevalier-to-shelved/#findComment-4146566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguine_Blood Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 My meph is largly gathing dust. What he brings to the table for his point costs I can easily suppliment a different character for. Plus, he doesn't really fit into my style of Jump Pack-type army, so I find I never really have a good squad to place him into for protection, and Tactical squads are not a good place for him. I'll spend 115 points on a regular level 2 libby with staff and Jump pack over Mephiston just so I can throw him in with DC. If I tailor an army with non-JP type assault troops (the odd time I run Vanguard for example) then I will take Meph as my libby.. I haven't given up ALL hope on him, after all he is still the LORD OF DEATH... I mean, how can you stay mad at him? ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312385-mephiston-from-chevalier-to-shelved/#findComment-4146590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 its such a shame he lost wings... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312385-mephiston-from-chevalier-to-shelved/#findComment-4146670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildrcheese Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I still use him, but his role has shifted from beatstick to support character. I tend to run him with Sternguard with divination powers, he makes Sternguard brutal when you stack powers with ammo. Ignores cover, ap3 with prescience anyone? The nice thing is you can split him off to destroy a land raider or other tough stuff. D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312385-mephiston-from-chevalier-to-shelved/#findComment-4146709 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zectz Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Ok. This is the kind of mentality I don't understand from people. If the general census at codex release was that Meph was good or bad, it shouldn't change if a different codex is released with a better character. Using of your examples of Trig and Ezekiel: At BA codex release, Meph has a certain effectiveness level, uses/tactics, strengths/weaknesses etc vs codex Eldar, DA, Chaos, Tyranids, Necrons, Tau, AM etc.... Give it a rating out of 10 if you have to. Now just because DA and SM codex came out with Trig and Ezekiel, that doesn't change how well Meph performs vs these armies...... Literally nothing would be different if you played a game vs Tau before or after the release of DA/SM codex for example. If you were taking him in your army before it certainly isn't a reason to shelve him now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312385-mephiston-from-chevalier-to-shelved/#findComment-4146789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yncarne Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Ok. This is the kind of mentality I don't understand from people. If the general census at codex release was that Meph was good or bad, it shouldn't change if a different codex is released with a better character. Except now you play in an environment of formations and detachments. It's pretty much use whatever. If a better character did come out, why wouldn't you take them? External factors do influence army unit choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312385-mephiston-from-chevalier-to-shelved/#findComment-4146796 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Ok. This is the kind of mentality I don't understand from people. If the general census at codex release was that Meph was good or bad, it shouldn't change if a different codex is released with a better character. Except now you play in an environment of formations and detachments. It's pretty much use whatever. If a better character did come out, why wouldn't you take them? External factors do influence army unit choice. This is true, but only in a hyper competitive setting/ mind set. Really just build the army you want to build and play what you want to play. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312385-mephiston-from-chevalier-to-shelved/#findComment-4146812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitorBlack Posted August 14, 2015 Author Share Posted August 14, 2015 Ok. This is the kind of mentality I don't understand from people. If the general census at codex release was that Meph was good or bad, it shouldn't change if a different codex is released with a better character. Except now you play in an environment of formations and detachments. It's pretty much use whatever. If a better character did come out, why wouldn't you take them? External factors do influence army unit choice. This. Ok. This is the kind of mentality I don't understand from people. If the general census at codex release was that Meph was good or bad, it shouldn't change if a different codex is released with a better character. Using of your examples of Trig and Ezekiel: At BA codex release, Meph has a certain effectiveness level, uses/tactics, strengths/weaknesses etc vs codex Eldar, DA, Chaos, Tyranids, Necrons, Tau, AM etc.... Give it a rating out of 10 if you have to. Now just because DA and SM codex came out with Trig and Ezekiel, that doesn't change how well Meph performs vs these armies...... Literally nothing would be different if you played a game vs Tau before or after the release of DA/SM codex for example. If you were taking him in your army before it certainly isn't a reason to shelve him now. Given how loose 7th ed allies/detachment rules are, there's no reason why a BA 'army' is bound to Blood Angels rules. My marines are painted as a DIY chapter. Mephiston and Ezekiel have *very* similar wargear so my converted emperor's champion libby can count as either. While your logic is sound, it overlooks the malleability of marine armies to be played as *any* of the codices available to us. I don't classify myself as a BA player as much as a "marine" player. Having said that, my 'fluff' loyalty is to BA. Emotionally, I'd like to use them, but logically, it's currently a poor choice. I might start a thread trying to establish exactly what our 'competitive' advantages are. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312385-mephiston-from-chevalier-to-shelved/#findComment-4146814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 He is still really good imo, but not amazing in mono BA lists. I really like running him with 3 grav cents (Whitecar for HnR) in a pod and almost always with divination. Precognition (re-roll to hit, wound and saves) is amazing on Meph due 2+ armor save and his melee stats . Pod into a ruin and have 3+ or 4+ re-rollable cover save (night fighting and stealth ruins wl trait) and 2+ re-rollable armor saves. Perfect timing, Prescience and Forewarning are also solid. With splitfire from cents you can wipe one unit in shooting then assault a different target making him very versatile. Have tested him several times vs the new SM battle company and Necron decurion vs both matchups he has been either mvp or close to it. He is no Tiggy, but the str 10 is so good vs many matchups, instant deathing wraiths and other t5 units and destoying any high armor or toughness models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312385-mephiston-from-chevalier-to-shelved/#findComment-4147747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-beard Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 I love me some Meph. I love him even more now that less people are fielding him (means my opponents are less accustomed to playing against him). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312385-mephiston-from-chevalier-to-shelved/#findComment-4148205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 In competitive games, my Mephi is gathering dust - as are the rest of my Blood Angels. :/ When I'm playing more relaxed games at my LGS though, I still take him often :) Usually put him in a drop pod with some death company, it makes them less susceptible to countercharges, and he can always split off to go and chop something up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312385-mephiston-from-chevalier-to-shelved/#findComment-4148311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildrcheese Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 In competitive games, my Mephi is gathering dust - as are the rest of my Blood Angels. :/ When I'm playing more relaxed games at my LGS though, I still take him often :) Usually put him in a drop pod with some death company, it makes them less susceptible to countercharges, and he can always split off to go and chop something up. What powers tree do you use when running him with DC? D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312385-mephiston-from-chevalier-to-shelved/#findComment-4148763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Going to use Mephiston this week in an Apoc hopefully. My aim is to kill at least a Knight in combat... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312385-mephiston-from-chevalier-to-shelved/#findComment-4148776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asher Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Meph, Command Squad, 3 Storm Shield/Melta in a Pod This squad has yet to under-perform. Meph tanks any AP3, and LoS AP2 if needed. I find his T5 invaluable. Run him with Prescience, Sword, and Quickening and he's a beat stick to anything with a 3+ save. He's not meant to be a support Librarian, he's meant to eat things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312385-mephiston-from-chevalier-to-shelved/#findComment-4149167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Doesn't it go on majority toughness though? Or if he tanks does it have to wound on his T5? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312385-mephiston-from-chevalier-to-shelved/#findComment-4149184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riot Earp Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 at least he wont die to s8 weapons. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312385-mephiston-from-chevalier-to-shelved/#findComment-4149188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildrcheese Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Doesn't it go on majority toughness though? Or if he tanks does it have to wound on his T5? No it's majority toughness. You essentially loseT5 if you add him to a squad to eat the ap2, which detracts from the beat stickyness. Also lack of ap2 makes not especially threatening to the top beatsticks. Don't get me wrong, he's still pretty nails, but he's best used as a support character who's handy in a scrap if it comes to it. IMO. D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312385-mephiston-from-chevalier-to-shelved/#findComment-4149196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 In competitive games, my Mephi is gathering dust - as are the rest of my Blood Angels. :/ When I'm playing more relaxed games at my LGS though, I still take him often Usually put him in a drop pod with some death company, it makes them less susceptible to countercharges, and he can always split off to go and chop something up. What powers tree do you use when running him with DC? D Divination usually, every power is awesome (except 6). Even getting 1 is great, as it gives you counterattack :D Rerolling 2+ armor saves is beyond awesome as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312385-mephiston-from-chevalier-to-shelved/#findComment-4149287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildrcheese Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 In competitive games, my Mephi is gathering dust - as are the rest of my Blood Angels. :/ When I'm playing more relaxed games at my LGS though, I still take him often Usually put him in a drop pod with some death company, it makes them less susceptible to countercharges, and he can always split off to go and chop something up.What powers tree do you use when running him with DC? D Divination usually, every power is awesome (except 6). Even getting 1 is great, as it gives you counterattack :D Rerolling 2+ armor saves is beyond awesome as well. Yeah that is a good way to tank. The invul for the DC would be good too, if you rolled it. D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/312385-mephiston-from-chevalier-to-shelved/#findComment-4149765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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