RULES - Primarch and Legion

[Kelborn]

wrist mounted plasma canon reminds me of the Predator from AvP 2 (the game, not the movie)

There, they had a little wrist-plasma-canon.

 

meh, every cool gadget is already in use...

 

flamer = everyone

cryo = Space Wolves

darts = Curze

 

at the very end, imagine a marine with a slingshot.

 

Well that should be new.... -.-"

[Doctor Perils]

Sooo... word bearers iconoclasts (or whatever they're called) :P

 

Edit: stupid phone loading slowly grumble grumble

 

 

How can you not like the death guard? ??

Edited February 26, 2016 by Lord Thørn

[MikhalLeNoir]

Hmm....well...plasma....hmmm...predator...a connection I very much like....:) but could be a bit op. What does the rule police say? A whole unit with wrist mounted plasma pistols/throwers. At least it fits the theme of the wardens: give us the power of the sun. :)

[Kelborn]

Well, for me:

 

Dusk Raiders are interesting

Chaos Death Guard can be good adversaries, like in Blood of Asaheim.

 

I simply don't like Mortarion. Don't know why but I find other Primarchs more interesting, like Russ, Jaghatai or Magnus.

Wraights version of him in Scars was quite good. But that was it.

[bluntblade]

I liked the Demonology follow-up, where he's in the verge of madness. Well, maybe talking about who "it is good to destroy a world" puts him over that verge already, he just doesn't k ow he's in freefall. Edited February 26, 2016 by bluntblade

[Doctor Perils]

Well, for me:

 

Dusk Raiders are interesting

Chaos Death Guard can be good adversaries, like in Blood of Asaheim.

 

I simply don't like Mortarion. Don't know why but I find other Primarchs more interesting, like Russ, Jaghatai or Magnus.

Wraights version of him in Scars was quite good. But that was it.

Well, scars has pretty much been the only book where mortarion had any facetime X)

 

[/off topic]

[bluntblade]

Mortarion's had two and a half chapters of facetime in Scars, and then one quick read. Plus maybe a chapter in Flight of the Eisenstein.

[Sigismund229]

While I've already gone WAY over my character and units limit, I've created another...sorry...I'll stop soon I promise...

 

When Hectarion's boarding pod first landed upon Mycenae, the first man to find him was a young shaman, Innos. Once Hectarion was adopted by the King of the Brigantii tribe, it was Innos who was responsible for his education and, when he became King of the tribe, for advising him on matters of state. However, Innos had a son, Traghaias and, to honour his old tutor, when the Imperium came to Mycenae, Traghaias was one of the first Mycenaeans inducted into the ranks of the III legion. In time, he became Master of the Gutuatri, the III's librarius, and continues to advise his primarch to this day.

Traghaias Two-Blade, 300 points.

WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W3 I4 A3 LD10 SV2++

Wargear: Artificer armour, Frag&Krak grenades, Iona Wave Blade, Force Weapon, Stone Lion cloak, Pyschic Hood.

 

Special Rules: LA(CL), Pysker(Mastery Level 3), Independent Character, Two-Blade.

Two-Blade: While Traghaias wields two weapons in battle, he only ever attacks with one, using the other to parry any strikes that come his way

Traghaias may never get the bonus for wielding two weapons but instead must choose at the begining of the Assault Phase which of his weapons he will use in Combat. He gains a 6++ invulnerable save from the other weapon in close combat.

 

Also, I was thinking that perhaps the CL librarians could have a seperate pyschic discipline? Pretty please?

I was thinking this because, like the SW rune priests, the Gutuatri don't harness the warp per se. Instead they call on elements and stuff to aid them and the fury of their homeworld's gods(despite not believing in them). I was thinking smthn like this?

 

Primaris Power

Nature's Call(Warp Charge 1)

Unit gains Move Through Cover.

 

1.Lightning Strike(warp charge 1)

Pysker may make shooting attack with S5 AP6 small blast, assault 1

2.Winds of Fate(Warp Charge 1)

Unit or character that the Pysker casts it on gains either a 6+ invulnerable save or may re roll their existing invulnerable save

3.World Blaze(Warp Charge 1)

Hit all enemy units within a straight "18 line with a S3 AP- assault 1 attack.

4. Word of the Gods(Warp Charge 1)

When making shooting attacks, the unit gains ignore cover.

5.Fury of the Sun(Warp Charge 2)

The Pysker may make a S6 AP3 small blast, heavy D3.

6.Hereah's Rage(Warp Charge 2? 3?)

The Pysker may make a S10 AP3 small blast, Heavy D3.

 

Given that this is my first time really writing(or even exploring particularly) pychic power, any comment and or critisism are much appreciated.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Phew....no Idea about psykers in 30k, but on the chars: for your Canonverse versions you can develop as much as you like. Just choose the 3(?) most fitting for the broverse. Any more and hesh will strangle you with his tentacles i guess^^

[Sigismund229]

Phew....no Idea about psykers in 30k, but on the chars: for your Canonverse versions you can develop as much as you like. Just choose the 3(?) most fitting for the broverse. Any more and hesh will strangle you with his tentacles i guess^^

As far as number of character's and units are concerned, the DG have 3 special characters not counting Mortarion(and I think that's the most of any legion) and EC have 3 special units and they're the most special unity legion I believe.

[Raktra]

WB have four special characters, WE too. I can't judge as I have four units to make up for the removal of so many other options.

[Hesh Kadesh]

:P its Morro who has the tentacles Mik XD, not me. Unless you're insinuating what I think you're Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

 

I prefer this chap out of the other one, although 300pts is a lot to pay for what you get. It is something different rather than just 'more combat!!'

 

Librarian, Mastery 3 is equivalent to 135pts, +1 wound is ~+15, but mitigated by -1 Initiative slightly to Only +10. (145)

 

I wouldn't drop BS, there are a few Witch Fires.

 

The Wave Blade is fine; what type of Force Weapon does he get? I cannot remember what that does exactly 35pts for S+1 AP3 Rend 5+ seems decent? (180)

 

The Stone Lion cloak? I'm not sure what this does entirely, sorry.

 

 

For the Psychic Power, you have 3 Wirchfires which do much of the same thing; perhaps tie it into the warp charge value, where each one uses a different profile. A Warp Charge 1 Move Through Cover and Ignores Cover shooting is also very good as a power.

 

Winds of Fate; if character only, rerolling Invulnerable Saves on 4++ is not too bad for WC1 but to give it an entire unit is WC2 at least. Again, I'd tie that power to the same 1. WC 1, 6+ Invulnerable /reroll existing Psyker only, WC2 applies to unit.

 

As I see it;

Primaris; WC1 Move Through Cover to Psyker

1; WC1/2/3 Witchfire, multishot Blast, improves as you use more WC

2; WC1/2 winds of fate, 6+ Invuln/reroll affects Psyker/unit as you use more WC

3; WC1 Beam (S3 is a bit weak, Perhaps give it the heavy beam of the volkite carronade, so it hits units in transports for a unique mechanic?)

4; WC1 Ignores Cover

5;?

6;?

 

One idea is to have a 'Roar' giving the bearer fear for the next turn, and causing a S1 autohit, forcing a morale test and blind

 

The other could be more Primal; perhaps grant Rage, Hatred and Furious Charge to bearer and his unit, but cause unit to lose the benefit of shields.

 

Lastly, i would consider having him keep the Support Officer rule unless Hectarion is present. It prevents you from taking

 

I think he would come in at a nice 205 depending on what the Stone Lion pelt does :)

[MikhalLeNoir]

Somewhere deep down in our threads we had the discussion before and if I remember correctly we settled for Primarch + 3 Special Chars or switching it out for an exclusive consultype. 3 Special Units and Then one legion specific vehicle, weapon and artefact in order to balance the legions out. For me, the more the better, so I don't have to kill some characters from the Canonverse^^

 

 

And Hesh: I know you were one of the old ones.

Edited February 27, 2016 by MikhalLeNoir

[simison]

Mikhal is right. 1 Primarch, 3 Unique Characters, and 3 unique units with a few unique pieces of wargear is what we agreed to at the start.

[Big Bad Squig]

Mikhal is right. 1 Primarch, 3 Unique Characters, and 3 unique units with a few unique pieces of wargear is what we agreed to at the start.

 

For legions that later turn daemonic, is this allowance spread across both versions, or does each version get this allowance?

[Raktra]

Mikhal is right. 1 Primarch, 3 Unique Characters, and 3 unique units with a few unique pieces of wargear is what we agreed to at the start.

Crap, I'm one unique unit over. But seeing as I can't use two consuls or assault squads, can I get a pass?

[simison]

 

Mikhal is right. 1 Primarch, 3 Unique Characters, and 3 unique units with a few unique pieces of wargear is what we agreed to at the start.

 

For legions that later turn daemonic, is this allowance spread across both versions, or does each version get this allowance?

 

 

I'm trying to remember, and I think we agreed on 1 Daemon unit and the Daemon Primarch version. And we were thinking about allowing the Revolutionaries 1 unique gene-unit of sorts. Granted, the limit we have is the one which Forgeworld was operating from, but now they've added relics and rite since the first 3 books, there's a possibility of expanding the rosters later on.

 

 

Mikhal is right. 1 Primarch, 3 Unique Characters, and 3 unique units with a few unique pieces of wargear is what we agreed to at the start.

Crap, I'm one unique unit over. But seeing as I can't use two consuls or assault squads, can I get a pass?

 

 

That's right because the Berserkers avoid the sky like the plague. Did you want all 4 to be featured in the rulebooks?

 

EDIT: Wait, is the 4th unit the special daemon unit?

 

 

Because if people want to make up extra specials, I'm okay with that, just understand that anything above the limit we've established is going to have to stay out of the books, until there's reason to expand the limits. 

Edited February 27, 2016 by simison

[Big Bad Squig]

 

 

Mikhal is right. 1 Primarch, 3 Unique Characters, and 3 unique units with a few unique pieces of wargear is what we agreed to at the start.

 

For legions that later turn daemonic, is this allowance spread across both versions, or does each version get this allowance?

 

 

I'm trying to remember, and I think we agreed on 1 Daemon unit and the Daemon Primarch version. And we were thinking about allowing the Revolutionaries 1 unique gene-unit of sorts. Granted, the limit we have is the one which Forgeworld was operating from, but now they've added relics and rite since the first 3 books, there's a possibility of expanding the rosters later on.

 

 

Would you mind if I ditched one of my pre-daemon units and at a push a pre-daemon character to add extra later to the daemonic version?  I just feel like, in terms of importance, the daemonic version of the Godslayers eclipses the non-corrupted version.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Big Bad Squig

[Raktra]

The specials would be: Milewalkers (the Reavers-esque unit), Godbreakers (termies), the weak mutated unit, and the Gal Vorbak-esque proper daemonic unit. Which I might make as a Praetor/Primarch accessible-only unit, seeing as they're insanely rare, like the Iron Circle.

[simison]

In that case, Raktra, you're fine. The daemon unit might be in a different book, but you do get one.

 

That's a fair trade, Squig. Go with it.

Edited February 27, 2016 by simison

[Chief Captain Redd]

Units I had no problem cutting down to three, my issue has been figuring out which characters to choose outside of Aandeg and R.Damon Redd. I'm picking between

Lord Chief Cass

Shaman Seraph Maximus Ironhill

Totem Master Solomon Grimm

Ah'nek the Giant

 

I wouldn't have an issue, but those guys are hard to translate to table top without Unique rules.

[Sigismund229]

Mikhal is right. 1 Primarch, 3 Unique Characters, and 3 unique units with a few unique pieces of wargear is what we agreed to at the start.

Do the Myramodons count as a unique unit in their own right? I ask because they can only be taken if you also have Hectarion in the army and he has to always be attached to them.

[MikhalLeNoir]

Sadly yes. Same problem with the luth de oganach ( changed therefore the binding to gwal a bit)

 

Other variant could be to make them your bodyguards/command squad and built them completly with veteran rules and lions specific wargear, but any special rules concerning them would be off.

 

Chief Captain Redd

Units I had no problem cutting down to three, my issue has been figuring out which characters to choose outside of Aandeg and R.Damon Redd. I'm picking between

Lord Chief Cass

Shaman Seraph Maximus Ironhill

Totem Master Solomon Grimm

Ah'nek the Giant

 

I wouldn't have an issue, but those guys are hard to translate to table top without Unique rules.

 

Maybe just focus on the main chars for the tabletop and the others are just pov in the stories? I mean you could later implement the survivors in the scouring and then use the rules made there. ( at least that is my plan as 1 major character is burned to dust in book 1 and Arngrim has rules(Zone Mortalis yes yes yes)

Edited February 28, 2016 by MikhalLeNoir

[Skalpynock]

One thing to remember, is that not all relevant characters need rules, and not all characters with rules need be relevant. Take for example Durak Rask, Shabran Darr, or Castrmen Orth. They exemplify some traits of their legion, yet bear no major importance to the legion as a whole. They played a role in the Heresy, but they are no heroes of renown.

[Sigismund229]

Been going over the Crimson Lions special rules and units(and, as a side note, getting back my feel for what the Crimson Lions originally were as a legion and my enthusiasm for it, so discard all that's been said about the Clans on General Discussion it's being re written).

 

In addition to re doing the rules for Ancient Ærrion and the Myramodons and struggling to think up a legion specific vehicle, I was thinking of introducing a legion specific restriction that they can't take destroyer squads?

 

 

Myramodons, 375 points. 0-1.

WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A3 LD10 SV2+/4+

 

Wargear: Tartaros pattern terminator armour, Paragon blades, Hoplon shields.

 

Unit size: 3 Myramodons.

 

Unit type: Infantry

 

Special rules: Legiones Astartes(Crimson Lions), Hammer of Wrath, Sworn Guard, the Ultimate Sacrifice, Sworn Shields.

 

Sworn Guard: The Myramodons may only be taken in an army which contains Hectarion Mycenor and if they are taken then Hectarion Mycenor must be attached to them.

 

The Ultimate Sacrifice: The Myramodons may re roll failed "Look.out sir!" rolls for Hectarion Mycenor.

 

Sworn Shields: If Hectarion Mycenor is attached to a unit of Myramodons then deduct -1 from his "Boundless Fury" rolls.

 

Options:

May take up to 7 more Myramodons for +20 points each.

 

Ancient Ærrion is the last of the original Blood Wolves(the ones recruited from the army of King Artorus following the battle of Mons Batonica) so his rules are meant to represent the style of fighting the Blood Wolves used(picking their enemy apart in firefights and then cleaning up what was left with a charge) as well as giving the CL an option to do something other than Breacher spam.

Ancient Ærrion, 350 points.

WS5 BS5 S7 F13 S12 R12 I5 A3 HP4.

Wargear: Fonrir's Bite, Tors judgement, Kucholan's shield, extra armour, smoke launchers, searchlight.

 

Fonrir's Bite: S: user AP2 Shred, Murderous Strike.

 

Tors Judgement: S:6 AP3 assault 3, small blast.

 

Kucholan's shield: Gives Ancient Ærrion a 3++ invulnerable save.

 

Special Rules: Last of the Blood Wolves, Ancient Wisdom, Fury of the Dead, Legiones Astartes(Crimson Lions), Inspirational presence.

 

Last of the Blood Wolves: Ancient Ærrion may never be taken as part of the same army as Hectarion Mycenor. However, any army which contains Ancient Ærrion may take Veterans and Aishetari as non-compulsory troops choices.

 

Ancient Wisdom: An army containing Ancient Ærrion may re roll failed reserve rolls and any squad shooting at a squad that has suffered casualties from a shooting attack made by a unit with LA(CL) may re roll its to hits rolls of 1.

 

Fury of the Dead: On charging, Ancient Ærrion gains +D3 attacks.

 

Inspirational Presence: Any retreating squad with LA(CL) within "6 of Ancient Ærrion regroups automatically.

 

As it stands, the characters&units for the Crimson Lions are

Characters: Maridius, Traghaias Two-Blade, Ancient Ærrion.

Units: Myramodons, Aishetari, Getae.