RULES - Primarch and Legion

[Demus Ragnok]

Alright gentlemen if you all be so kind. I am in need of some special rules a guy, and my imagination is rather slow of late so would be so kind as to pitch some ideas my way on this. Serious or silly I don't care I just need to jog the old brain train.

 

 

 

So allow me to tell you the story of Captain “Brosef”. When the Icar-Insur popped off and the Ghosts attacked the Fire Keepers main fleet Brosef was a regular Captain of a regular Tactical company doing regular Tactical Captain things. Brosef’s CO is killed in the opening salvo. The ship is boarded by a much larger force of Ghost Walkers. Out numbered, out gunned, lacking any heavy assault units, and in the midst of a giant space battle Brosef rallies his fellow marines and proceeds to kill many, many Ghost Walkers. Brosef and his crew manage to take back their ship and survive the battle.

 

Captain “Brosef”

 

WS 5 BS 5 S 4 T 4 W2 I 5 A 3 Ld 10 Sv 3+

 

Wargear

Power Armor

Bolter

Bolt Pistol

Frag&Krak Grenades

Heavy Chainsword

Refractor Field

Las Cutter

 

Special Rules

LA:Fire Keepers

[Grifftofer]

You could frop the heavy chainsword and give him allow him to ignore the Cumbersome rule on his Lascutter. A possible Unique Warlord trait could be a specialised bolter drill that lets his marines use their bolters in close combat, effectively giving them AP5 melee weapons. This could effect the unit he joins or possibly D3 units chosen at the beginning of the game. I personally would give him an Augury scanner and/or a Nuncio-vox to represent his ability to coordinate nearby troops effectively. I think with those he would be a unique character, with just enough things to set him apart for other officers.

[Sigismund229]

Well my first idea would be to give him rampage seeing as(from description) he gets more dangerous when outnumbered. Then perhaps a special rule(Until the Bitter end??) which allows units that he's either attached to or in an army with to re roll failed re group tests, Hatred(Ghost Walkers) and maybe some buffs to tac squads? 

[Sigismund229]

Apologies for the double post, but just so that I keep my own rules separate from suggestions for other people's. 

Wasn't really happy with the Getae's rules so re did them. 

Getae 220 points(Fast Attack)

Sperothos: WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A3 LD9 SV3+/6+
Getaos: WS3 BS3 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 LD8 SV3+/6+
Wargear: Power armour, breacher shield, frag&krak grenades, close combat weapon, bolt pistol, jump pack. 
Unit size: 10 getae
Special rules: Reckless, Vanguard fighters, Young Lions, Counter attack, Crusader, Dynamic Entry. 
Reckless: Getae always get hit on 3+ and may never use another LD value in place of their own and may never be joined by an independent character.
Vanguard fighters: Getae may re roll their run rolls. However, they cannot choose which number to use, they must always use the 2nd number. 

Headstrong: The Getae's charges are famous across the legions as both insane and a spectacle to behold, as the young Crimson Lions will charge the enemy heedless of all advice against it and in spite of any orders to the contrary. After all, they were the best of their tribe and their physical abilities have been increased yet further by the Alauri and their armour. Given the gift of flight, what foe can possibly hope to stand against them?

If a unit of Getae is within "12 of an enemy Elite or HQ then they must attempt to charge them. 

Dynamic entry: When they leap into battle, the Getae always seek to land on the enemy, crushing them underneath the weight of their fully armoured forms. 

If they succesfully charge, then the Getae make a Dynamic entry attack with the following profile. S:5 AP:4 Small blast. Note, they may not make Hammer of Wrath attacks as well. 

[Doctor Perils]

From his fluff, you definitely need a buff to tactical squads, and probably something suitably zone mortalis in style: what about giving him and any tactical squad within six/twelve inches +1 init when charged: this might be copying the phalanx wardens though.

That or something akin to objective secured in your half of the table?

 

What about the power scythes rule for cutting many people down with the heavy chainsword : the Spanish with two handed montantes were trained to defend doors and bridges alone against many enemies.

 

What about a kind of fun"magpie" rule? A lascutter doesn't seem a standard choice of armament for a tactical captain, so he might have picked it up from a dead enemy breacher: in this kind of desperate situation it would seem to me that he would use the most effective weapon for the job, so I'd allow him to exchange the lascutter for a weapon dropped by a legionnary in a close combat he wins (this must be a weapon accessible to centurions or tactical marines of his legion)

[Sigismund229]

Question. May we forego having a unique vehicle in favour of an additional special unit or character?

[Grifftofer]

As far as I'm concerned you can. I'd just prefer if people could have an even number for the total of units/characters etc. As it generally makes it easier to put in the book if things are paired up.

[MikhalLeNoir]

And the other way around? As Guaire Amalasan is killed during the early days of the crusade, I don't need rules for him...damn...same goes for Arngrim...uhm...and Cervantes can easily be represented by a praetor.

 

So if I can switch special chars, I could introduce the heron jetbikes as jetbikes and not as outrider variant with only cosmetical differences.

Edited March 5, 2016 by MikhalLeNoir

[Hesh Kadesh]

I thought it was 2 Characters, 1 Prjmarch and 2-3 units, of which they may be vehicles.

 

If you are creating special units, it might be worth asking yourself if they can be represented by modifying an existing unit. For example, Command Squads. Paritcularly if they are being included within the Rules for another character. Which is slightly cheeky, I suppose.

 

If you are creating a bodyguard for a Primarch, why not allow a Command Squad to be modified by X rules when they are selected as Bodyguards for a Primarch?

 

Or Heron Jetbikes, for example? Why go to thre trouble of creating Special Rules for an entirely new squad, when you can present Heron Jetbikes as an alternative variant of Jetbike to the Scimitar, and include it in the legion rules as alternative wargear, allowing squads or models to exchange their gear for them?

 

In other rules noticed there is anlot 'upscale' but on a minute scale, which the game does not really have enough lf a granularity (ie difference between stats to make that difference worthwhile, without completely overpowering things). Think about the 4 different variants you've got for the Iron Bears Tomahawks for example, and compare to the Paragon Blade. The paragon blade is a catch all term for an incredible weapon, whether it is power sword, chainsword, axe, maul, or spear, and yet we have 4 different variants of a throwing axe.

 

On top of that, we have a LOT of shields; the Halcyon Wardens Tower Shields, the Hoplon Shields, Ironbound Shields, Breaching Shoelds, Stormshields, Combat Shields, etc. Can these be simplified in some way, with some of the specifics tied to a unit? For example, Tower Shields? Could these not be Breacher Shields, with the Bonus Invulnerable and Cover Save included as the unit specific special rule?

 

The illusion of choice is simply an illusion. There is a reason you don't see Praetors running Power Mauls when they can take a Thunder Hammer, or a Power Sword instead of a Paragon Blade. Rather than 4 different tiers, would things not be so much simpler by making 2 Variants? After all, an Eldar Power Sword is the same as a Human Power Sword, as an Imperial Guard power sword in stats.

 

Or else we could end up with some of the ridiculous things seen in The new Wulfen rules. Which is just essentially 'because reasons'

 

I mean no offence by it, I would rather have everything all as one 'group project' as opposed to 18 individual projects in one book (series) and think it comes across as more professional if unified.

 

Having options is cool, but not if they are a strict upgrade. For example, Nostraman Chainglaive. Same cost as a power sword, rending and +1 strength in exchange for an additional attack. That additional attack can be a 25% increase in damage as opposed to 17% with a rare chance of AP2, so it is swings and roundabouts. But if it wasn't 2 Handed, or had AP2 off the bat, it would open up a new target to attack and be a pure upgrade for the same, or negligible cost.

 

I've had a quick browse through Grifft's incredible WIP, and have a few constructive comments to make when I can get the time. :)

 

Just my tuppence for what it's worth!

[MikhalLeNoir]

Well actually the heron runs as outrider bikes cuz a) i don't like the models and b) you can't attach heavy weapons on the heron jetbike models, but yoh could add synchronized bolters or melters or plasmas, just like the outrider bikes. Plan was to give them the same range as the scimitars. But I guess we could stick with the bike rules.

 

But as previously discussed and confirmed we have 1 primarch. 3 special characters ( you can switch one for a consul), 3 special units, 1 special weapon, 1 vehicle and 1 relic. So everybody has the same numbers of "inventions".

 

For some that is a good thing, some have lost a few characters, units etc and others have to come up with new things.

But that was declared as the framework we work in.

 

Mikhal is right. 1 Primarch, 3 Unique Characters, and 3 unique units with a few unique pieces of wargear is what we agreed to at the start.

Okay, the few unique pieces of wargear could be interpreted either way. But I thought 3/3/3+primarch gives everybody 10 inventions

Edited March 5, 2016 by MikhalLeNoir

[Raktra]

Or else we could end up with some of the ridiculous things seen in The new Wulfen rules.

!

*sits glancing nervously at the Architects unit entry*

[simison]

I'm not sure when this 1 unique vehicle addition crept into, but it counts to the 3 unique units count. 

[Raktra]

Must be a misread of that.

[MikhalLeNoir]

I think it started back...oh well...there was a thread. I am sure. Grifft showed a great hovercraft vwhicle and dearr'dd something similar.

[Sigismund229]

I'm not sure when this 1 unique vehicle addition crept into, but it counts to the 3 unique units count.

I think someone mentioned something about their legion having a specialist land raider(may have been Redd) and then, when the Bears and I think Grave Stalkers, added a vehicle to their existing special units we all took that as the green light. Also I believe you confirmed it later in your list of what each legion can have

[simison]

Mikhal is right. 1 Primarch, 3 Unique Characters, and 3 unique units with a few unique pieces of wargear is what we agreed to at the start.

 

Here's my list. What I think happened is that several legions have created new vehicles, and it just kinda became assumed. The Halcyon Wardens don't have a specialty vehicle, just an experienced Armour officer corps.

[MikhalLeNoir]

So now is the question: keep them or frag them? But i can see Hesh point here. We could add some rules to existing vehicles. For example: in my army list is the illuminator. A landspeeder with a symbol of light. It is crafted and vuilt.out of the landspeeder vengeance kit. I think i can use the javelin landspeeder as rule base and add a relic on top of it " the crown of light" or something similar blingy and tadaaaaa. Finished.

[Sigismund229]

Oh ok. That's good for me as I can't really think of owt to give the Lions as a special vehicle(hence my asking if I could switch for a special unit) as they only have Minotaur gunships whuch are basically more heavily armoured stormbirds

[Skalpynock]

Revised version:

 

Legiones Astartes (Warbringers)

 

⋅Legiones Astartes: Units with this special rule may always attempt to regroup at their normal Leadership value, regardless of casualties.

⋅Lead by Example: Ever mindful of exemplifying nobility in the eyes of humankind, the Warbringers shun the use of destructive weaponry. An army using LA(W) may not take rad grenades, phosphex bombs, or Destroyer squads.

⋅Tide of Steel: If an unit has been shot by a model with the LA(W) rule, allies may re-roll 1s to hit when shooting at the same target.

⋅Stigmata of the Prosecution: After the prosecution of the legion at Baal, its apothecarion was crippled by decree of the Emperor. Apothecarion detachments may only be taken in armies that have a Chaplain or Primus Medicae consul, with a limit of one detachment per consul.

⋅The Storm Marching: Units with access to weapon with the Heavy type may purchase Suspensor Webs for those weapons for +5 points. This must be applied to all eligible weapons in the squad.

⋅Host Unyielding: Units with this special rule are immune to Pinning.

[Sigismund229]

I thought it was 2 Characters, 1 Prjmarch and 2-3 units, of which they may be vehicles.

 

If you are creating special units, it might be worth asking yourself if they can be represented by modifying an existing unit. For example, Command Squads. Paritcularly if they are being included within the Rules for another character. Which is slightly cheeky, I suppose.

(...)

On top of that, we have a LOT of shields; the Halcyon Wardens Tower Shields, the Hoplon Shields, Ironbound Shields, Breaching Shoelds, Stormshields, Combat Shields, etc. Can these be simplified in some way, with some of the specifics tied to a unit? For example, Tower Shields? Could these not be Breacher Shields, with the Bonus Invulnerable and Cover Save included as the unit specific special rule?

Well the Rix is an upgrade for the Legion Champion(admittedly at your suggestion) :)

 

As for the shields, how about this?

Delos pattern boarding shield

While it is uncertain which legion the Delos pattern storm shield originated in, it was ultimately adopted by three legions: the Halycon Wardens, Iron Bears and Crimson Lions. In each legion it has a seperate name, making it a tower shield for the V, a superior pattern boarding shield for the VI and a Hoplon shield for the III. However, despite these differing names, the internal workings of these legions is very similar across all three legions so for ease of classification they are given the basic catch all term "Delos pattern" as they are most widespread within the V legion.

A Delos pattern boarding shield confers a 5++ invulnerable save against shooting attacks and 4++ invulnerable save in melee.

?

[Big Bad Squig]

I've redone a few Godslayers rules (for both book 1 and 2) - spoilered because there are digusting amounts of rules.  This is mostly for the record, but if anyone sees anything glaringly wrong with them (particularly cost-wise)  feel free to tell me.

 

 

Legiones Astartes:  Godslayers

 

Psychic Suppressants:  Adamantine Will

To The Last:  If the army’s Warlord is slain, all models with this rule gain Feel No Pain (6+) and Stubborn.  Additionally, Godslayers may never voluntarily Go to Ground.

  

 

Legiones Astartes: Corrupted Godslayers

 

Psychic Suppressants:  Adamantine Will

Mindless Abominations:  Corrupted Godslayers have their ballistic skill reduced to 0, and gain the Fearless, Feel No Pain and Slow and Purposeful special rules.  Additionally, no Consul upgrades, non-Walker vehicles, augury scanners, techmarines or apothecaries may be included in a Corrupted Godslayers army.

The Dead Will Rise Again:  At the end of each (enemy or friendly) turn, if a unit with this rule has fought in close combat, set up a unit of Plague Zombies within 6”, equal to the number of models slain by To Wound rolls of 6+.

 

 

Legiones Astartes: Daemonic Godslayers

 

Psychic Suppressants:  Adamantine Will

Hosts of Flesh:  Daemonic Godslayers have their ballistic skill reduced to 3, and gain the Fearless, Feel No Pain and Daemon special rules.  Daemonic Godslayers are considered an upgrade to the Corrupted Godslayers ruleset, and so normal restrictions regarding army composition applies.

The Dead Will Rise Again:  At the end of each (enemy or friendly) turn, if a unit with this rule has fought in close combat, set up a unit of Plague Zombies within 6”, equal to the number of models slain by To Wound rolls of 6+.

 

Legion Specific Weapons:

 

Any Independent Character with the Legiones Astartes (Godslayers), (Corrupted Godslayers) or (Daemonic Godslayers) special rule may take any items from this list:

 

Ripper Glaive – 20 pts

RNG: -   Str: +1   AP: 3      Melee, Two-handed, Rending (5+)

 

Kingslayer Knife – 10 pts

RNG: -   Str: User   AP: 4      Melee, Murderous Strike, Rending (5+)

 

Zbruchan Fire (Relic) – 50 pts

Zbruchan Fire is a unique suit of Terminator Armour, crafted for the first Godslayers Legion Master, Prometear Thyris.  It confers a 2+ armour save, a 4+ invulnerable save, and the Slow and Purposeful, Eternal Warrior and Feel No Pain special rules.

 

 

Koschei Kharkovic – 550 pts

Daemon Primarch of the Godslayers, The Slow Death, Eater of Hearts

WS: 7   BS: 5   S: 7   T: 7   W: 7   I: 6   A: 5   Ld: 10   Sv: 2+

                            

Unit Composition:

·         1 (Unique)

 

Unit Type:

·         Monstrous Creature (Character)

 

Wargear:

·         The Black Mantle

·         God’s Hand

·         Bubonic Sickle

 

Special Rules:

·         Daemon Primarch

·         Hand of the Plaguelord

·         Preferred Enemy (psykers)

·         Sire of the Godslayers

·         Extremely Bulky

·         Psychic Suppressant

 

Warlord Trait:

·         Intimidating Presence

 

God’s Hand:  RNG: -   S: 10   AP: 1   Melee, Atomantic Power Generators, Concussive, Specialist Weapon

Atomantic Power Generators:  When striking with this weapon, Koschei is counted as being Initiative 3.  Additionally, each unsaved wound caused by this weapon multiplies to two wounds

 

Bubonic Sickle:  RNG: -   S: User   AP: 2   Melee, Instant Death, Corrupted Blade

Corrupted Blade:  Koschei may, when fighting in close combat with this weapon, choose to gain an extra d3+1 attacks.  However, if he does this, he must take a toughness test for every wound he has remaining.  For every test failed, Koschei takes a wound with no armour or invulnerable saves allowed.

 

The Black Mantle:  2+ armour save, 4+ invulnerable save, Aegis

Aegis:  Destroyer weapons suffer a -1 modifier on the Destroyer chart when targeting Koschei.

 

Hand of the Plaguelord:  All Nurgle Daemons that are within 12 inches of Koschei gain +1 to their invulnerable saves, and do not scatter when Deep Striking.

 

Sire of the Godslayers:  Feel No Pain (4+).  All models with the Legiones Astartes (Corrupted Godslayers) or (Daemonic Godslayers) gain +1 to any Feel No Pain rolls they are required to make, to a maximum of Feel No Pain (4+).

 

Psychic Suppressant: All blessing and maledictions within 6" inches immediately cease to effect. All psykers within 6" inches suffer -2 leadership. He and his unit may not be targeted by any psychic powers, and he grants all units fully within 6 inches +2 to Deny the Witch rolls.

 

 

 

 

Koschei Kharkovic – 415 pts

Primarch of the Godslayers

WS: 7  BS: 5   S: 6   T: 6   W: 6   I: 6   A: 4   Ld: 10   Sv: 2+

                            

Unit Composition:

·         1 (Unique)

 

Unit Type:

·         Infantry (Character)

 

Wargear:

·         The Black Mantle

·         God’s Hand

·         Blade of the Pariah

 

Special Rules:

·         Primarch

·         Preferred Enemy (psykers)

·         Sire of the Godslayers

·         Bulky

·         Psychic Suppressant

 

Warlord Trait:

·         Intimidating Presence

 

God’s Hand:  RNG: -   S: x2   AP: 1   Melee, Unwieldy, Concussive, Specialist Weapon

 

Blade of the Pariah:  RNG: -   S: User   AP: 3   Melee, Murderous Strike, Piercing Blow, Psy-bane

Psy-bane:  Gains the Instant Death special rule when targeting a psyker.

 

The Black Mantle:  2+ armour save, 4+ invulnerable save, Aegis

Aegis:  Destroyer weapons suffer a -1 modifier on the Destroyer chart when targeting Koschei.

 

Sire of the Godslayers:  Feel No Pain.  All friendly models with Legiones Astartes (Godslayers) gain Feel No Pain (6+). If Koschei is slain, all friendly models with Legiones Astartes (Godslayers) gain Feel No Pain and Fearless.

 

Psychic Suppressant: All blessing and maledictions within 6" inches immediately cease to effect. All psykers within 6" inches suffer -2 leadership. He and his unit may not be targeted by any psychic powers, and he grants all units fully within 6 inches +2 to Deny the Witch rolls.

 

 

 

Plaguewalker Horde – 200 pts

 

Plaguewalker                 WS: 5   BS: 3   S: 5   T: 5   W: 2   I: 3   A: 3   Ld: 10   Sv: 2+

Plaguewalker Lazarus  WS: 6   BS: 3   S: 5   T: 5   W: 2   I: 3   A: 4   Ld: 10   Sv: 2+

 

Unit Composition:

·         2 Plaguewalkers

·         1 Plaguewalker Lazarus

Unit Type:

·         Plaguewalker – Infantry

·         Plaguewalker Lazarus – Infantry (Character)

Wargear:

·         Artificer Armour

·         Bolt Pistol

 

Special Rules:

·         Legiones Astartes (Daemonic Godslayers)

 

Options:

·         The Plaguewalker Horde may take:

o   Up to seven additional Poxborn ………………….. 55 pts per model

·         Any Plaguewalker may take up to two of the following (if two weapons are chosen, one replaces the model’s bolt pistol):

o   Virulent toxins ……………………………………………………….. 3 pts

o   Power weapon ………………………………………………………. 10 pts

o   Power fist ……………………………………………………............ 15 pts

o   Lightning claw ………………………………………………………… 15 pts

·         The Plaguewalker Lazarus may take up to two of the following (if two weapons are chosen, one replaces the model’s bolt pistol):

o   Virulent toxins …………………………................................ 3 pts

o   Power weapon ………………………………………………………. 10 pts

o   Power fist ……………………………………………………............ 15 pts

o   Lightning claw ………………………………………………………… 15 pts

o   Blade of Undeath …………………………………………………… 20 pts

 

Virulent Toxins:  The bearer gains the Poisoned (4+) special rule

 

Blade of Undeath:  RNG: -   S: +1   AP: 3   Melee, Unholy Rebirth

Unholy Rebirth:  Plague Zombies are spawned on To Wound rolls of 4+ instead of 6+ (as per The Dead Will Rise Again)

 

Rotkeeper Pack – 175 pts

 

Rotkeeper  WS: 5   BS: 0   S: 5   T: 5   W: 2   I: 4   A: 4   Ld: 10   Sv: 4+

 

 

Unit Composition:

·         3 Rotkeepers

 

Unit Type:

·         Rotkeeper – Beast

 

Wargear:

·         Compromised power armour

 

Special Rules:

·         Legiones Astartes (Daemonic Godslayers)

·         Run Them Down

·         Piercing Blow

 

Options:

·         The Rotkeeper Pack may take:

o   Up to seven additional Rotkeepers ………………….. 40 pts per model

·         Any Rotkeeper may take any of the following:

o   Virulent toxins ……………………………………………………….. 5 pts

 

Run Them Down:  Rotkeepers count as being initiative 6 when making Sweeping Advances rolls

 

Virulent Toxins:  The bearer gains the Poisoned (4+) special rule

[Skalpynock]

Just a quick heads up: would a 3-5men terminator unit able to dual-wield heavy weapons be overpowered?

[Grifftofer]

Depends on the weapon in question probably. Plus if they actually get to fire both or just count as twin-linked.

[Skalpynock]

Wondering about a Void Eagles unit whose M.O. is "Get in ship, fill corridors with bullets/fire, overheat because you have bypassed cooling systems to get more strength in both arms".

[Grifftofer]

So maybe give them two weapons and a special rule that if they use both they have the gets hot! rule? Or if you intend to give them plasma options then gets hot on a 1 or 2 (making it possible to both hit and injure yourself if you get bs5).