Scion beginner army list

[Emprah2508]

Hi I'm new to scions and I (hopefully) will have 20 scions a scion command and also a codex by the start of September and I was wondering were to start with list building

 

Plus I hoping to factor my blood angels into this.

[librisrouge]

As allies for the BA, is the short answer. Four deep striking squads with melta or plasma, plus the command riding in the Valk with quad specials, is how I would roll.

[Emprah2508]

I don't have a valk would a stormraven work?

[Kontakt]

   My first thought is to bring homing beacons with your marines to allow you to deep strike without scattering. Scions in a stormraven might be a little too expensive, but it depends on how much you are willing to rely on reserve rolls. You really want the scions to complement your forces by shoring up your weaknesses, such as by bringing deep strike melta squads or simply a large amount of AP3. This might work fairly well in a drop pod army, using homing beacons on the pods to bring scions in where needed.

   Keep in mind that these guys are not as tough as scouts but are more expensive, so you are bringing them for their loadouts.

Edit: It does depend on what kind of list you are running

[Emprah2508]

I'm going to have 10 scions and a command squad aswell as 2 taurox primes I've changed it because I wanted to try the gatling cannons against my mates pesky orks who I haven't beaten to this day

[WarriorFish]

I'd try and keep the armies separate, let them do their own thing. The Scions can target and eliminate certain unit types and your BA can handle the rest. Keeping model counts high would be good too, as otherwise they may prove tempting targets compared to the more resilient Marine squads but they should be able to keep up with your BA's speed

As mentioned there is a lot that depends on what sort of lists you'd like to run, so it'd help if you outlined that I'm moving this topic to the main Guard section as it's not about a particular list and you will get more help.

[Emprah2508]

I want to run the ground formation so

I will slowly build towards that.

The taurox primes I've heard can actual interchange the turret option without magnets is this true in your opinion guys?

 

Battle cannon for smaller higher toughness armies and the gatler for orks and other horde armies

[librisrouge]

I've yet to see a taurox that didn't need magnets to change its turret, and the one I briefly owned was not different. Still, it isn't a lot of work to magnetize them.

 

If you're struggling against orks and planning on taking the Ground Assault Formation anyway, consider some flamers in there. Twin-linked (from the formation) on flamers is just brutal to orks, allowing the squad to be a powerful counter attack unit. Survivors will be then shoot up by the gatling gun. 

[Emprah2508]

I thought maybe volley guns because they are s4 ap3 and that could be a good takes all

[WarriorFish]

I don't really like volley guns as Scion upgrades, unless you're tooling a command squad up for some fire power. They're basically more of the same which isn't that great, as you get plenty of hotshot dice elsewhere (plus more troopers also means more wounds). It's always best to add something to the unit with an upgrade in my opinion so something like melta so they can pop tanks is nice. If you want to stick to their theme of elite hunting then I'd go plasma - matches well with hotshot targets but with better stats can threaten light armour and MCs on top.

[Emprah2508]

True. maybe for now a command squad with 4 volley guns 2x five man scion squads with 2 plasma in Tauroxes with gatling cannons and autocannons?

[WarriorFish]

Sounds good, but I'd go for more troopers than 5 if possible. With power armoured allies the AP4 weaponry will be targeting the Scions more for it, so they'll need some numbers to endure in my opinion.

[Emprah2508]

I need 1 more box and 2 taurox primes also a commisar then I will bulk out the squads this is so I can run the formation ASAP

[WarriorFish]

Excellent, we'll look forward to seeing them all painted up :tu:

[Master Antaeus]

Use BA speed to ram them into opponent's face, surround and force the opponent to break out while troops in taurox primes grab objectives.  Deep strike mini melta scions into you opponent's back field to destroy key fortifications and vehicles he thinks are important.  They can already deep strike, why use a valuable assault transport like a storm raven for non-assaulty scions?  If you want all of your scions up and shooting, deep strike all of them and put scouts in the taurox.

 

For the Taurox, TLAC and gatling gun is best IMHO (not actually humble).  The battle cannon is terrible and volleyguns are... also quite terrible, even on vehicles.  The TLAC/TLTGG gives you the flexibility to take on any target a troop transport might reasonably be expected to fight.  You use the TLAC at range to make the opponent's infantry get out of their vehicles, then all guns to destroy them on foot.

[Kontakt]

 

For the Taurox, TLAC and gatling gun is best IMHO (not actually humble).  The battle cannon is terrible and volleyguns are... also quite terrible, even on vehicles.  The TLAC/TLTGG gives you the flexibility to take on any target a troop transport might reasonably be expected to fight.  You use the TLAC at range to make the opponent's infantry get out of their vehicles, then all guns to destroy them on foot.

Gonna have to disagree here. That punisher gatling cannon is strength 4, as is the volley gun. Might as well get the 4 extra str ap3 shots on the same vehicle (kills marines bettr than the autocannon. You can only shoot at one target at a time, so for light AT, consider the Autocannons combined with the battlecannon or the missile launcher.  Specializing a vehicle means you aren't wasting potential damage.

[GreenPlasma]

Specializing a vehicle means you aren't wasting potential damage.

You can also specialize towards killing 3+ units. Roll with the Volleygun/Krak ML, AP3 across the board. The nice thing is with Frag ML and the Volleygun, and even a 5pt Heavy Stubber, you can still mess up hordes. Quite expensive though!

 

AC/BC and Gatling/Volleygun are the usual builds since you're organized by Str output and range bands.

 

HK missiles are a legit option at BS4, one of the nicer features of the Prime.

[Kontakt]

My only problem with loading up on missiles for killing 3+ armour is that I feel a TL punisher is more likely to hit (more times than a 2 shot missile) and subsequently wound, though it depends on how your opponent has been rolling, as he could save them all and make those missiles look really good suddenly.

Edit: sorry, getting carried away from the original topic.

[GreenPlasma]

Statistically it's pretty close against Marines, but the Gatling/Volleygun combo does have the edge.

 

4(8/9)(1/2) = 32/18 =1.78 (TL-Volleygun)

10(8/9)(1/2)(1/3) = 80/54 = 1.48 (TL-Gatling)

2(2/3)(5/6) = 20/18 = 1.11 (Taurox ML)

2(8/9)(5/6)(1/3) = 80/162 = 0.49 (TL-Autocannon)

 

The real reason to go heavy on Krak missiles is the 48" range, AV cracking, ability to wound MCs and ability to double out T4 characters. Cover or Invul saves will really hurt their effectiveness, unfortunately.

[march10k]

I'm not really into the ground side of stormtroopers, so I don't feel qualified to comment on the OP's questions...but this caught my eye:

 

 

he real reason to go heavy on Krak missiles is the 48" range, AV cracking, ability to wound MCs and ability to double out T4 characters.

 

I see this thing about doubling out T4 characters a lot.  In practice, though, it seems to come into play about as often as a chimera's amphibious capability...does this theoretical capability really deserve so much attention when T4 characters tend to be well-protected by 2+ saves, 4+ or better invulnerable saves, and/or eternal warrior?

[WarriorFish]

True, Instant Death is not something MLs get to do much, maybe the odd xenos creature but against characters and the like you're usually pinging off a save of some kind. MLs are a bit expensive for speculative shots like that, but part of their appeal is their flexibility so better than nothing.

[GreenPlasma]

...does this theoretical capability really deserve so much attention when T4 characters tend to be well-protected by 2+ saves, 4+ or better invulnerable saves, and/or eternal warrior?

There are effects on FNP and RP as well, which are more likely to be relevant.