2k Nightlords list help wanted

[Spacefrisian]

I be playing a 2k Nightlords list for 1 single time (to try) but i have a hard time figuring out some details. So i was wondering if some could help me out (i asked in the regular chaos forums but help is a bit abysmal). And no i dont have a book, my opponent has one so we be sharing a bit (i dont think its cost effectiv buying a 72 pound book for 1 battle.

 

I did find out what i could do with Nightlords btw in terms of rules and what i must take.

 

What i figured out:

 

Praetor:

-Jumppack, meltabombs, rites of war, Nostroman chainglaive

 

Centurion:

-Powersword, Plasmapistol, Chaplain (not 100% sure if iam allowed to do this)

 

Aphotecary: x2

 

10 Terrorsquad: Includes unit leader with lightning claw, 1x rotorcannon

 

10 Terrorsquad: Includes unit leader with lightning claw

 

10 Terrorsquad: Includes unit leader with plasmapistol

 

20 Legion Tacticatl squad 

5 men support squad: Meltas, droppod

 

+/-1500 points

 

Now i was thinking about adding another support squad with droppod and 5 Plasmas and a unit of 10 Nightraptors with 2 Meltaguns and some special close combat weapons.

 

So can anyone help out with making this in a 2000 point list? (iam not asking for stats, i just need a list so we can start playing faster)

 

 

[Slips]

If you're using the Rite of War and that many terror Squads, taking a 20man Tac Blob is kinda superfluous since you could use the points on something with more punch.

Like a Deredeo, Fire Raptor or other solid unit for your single HS Slot.

Ditch the Rotorcannon, they're useless.

5 Man Tac Support Squads, especially when tooled up with the uber-deadlies such as Plasma and Melta tend to get insta-vaped by your opponent especially if he has Contemptor-Mortis Dreads and/or Deredeos since they've got Interceptor. If you want Tac Support Squads, its 10 Men with an Artificer Armored Sarge at the front to tank non-Ap2 wounds. If you want more durability and still shove em in a ride, 9 men with an Apothecary. Otherwise theyre just very expensive DISTRACTION CARNIFEX's, I've found.

All Squad Sarges can take Artificer armor for 10 Points as can and of your HQ selections (The Chappy is legal, even gets a Free Power Weapon - plasma pistols are still worthless if your trying to save points). Do it since shooting Ap2 is not That widespread.

If you can, give your Terror Squads Volkite Chargers. With Infiltrate they're in a good position to get in range T1 and Fry some peeps. Squad Sarge is better off with a Chainglaive and Artificer armor if anything though LC's Are good enough. Usually you want reliable AP2 Weapons since other Sarges and Characters you'll be trying to Challenge Snipe will 90% of the time be equippedd with Artificer Armor Themselves. Mutually assured destruction is better than your 2+ Save dying and theirs going on to tank more hits.

Give the Chaplain a Jump pack and, points willing, the Void Shield Harness relic for an Av12 Bubble around your Uber-Killy Preator+Chappy+Raptors squad so that they can get shot off the board by anything worse than S6 Shots. Its totally worth the 40pts for the Relic and giving the Squad Zealot is a major bonus.

While the Nostroman Chaingalive is Awesome, the Preator has access to a better weapon: The Paragon Blade. Ap2 at initiative with a 1in6 chance of causing ID is worth the price of admission.

All that being said, try and reformulate to something kinda like:

HQ:

Preator: Paragon Blade + Master-Crafted, Jump Pack, Melta Bombs, Digital Lasers (if you can)

+ Terror Assault Rite of War

Chaplain: Power Weapon (Axe, Maul, Sword your choice), Artificer Armor, Jump Pack, Melta Bombs, Void Shield Harness (consider potentially swapping consul to Primus Medicae for FNP)

Troops:

Terror Squad: 10 men, Volkite Chargers, Sarge with Artificer Armor, Chainglaive, Melta Bombs (If you know what your buddies playing beforehand, consider Drop Pods)

Terror Squad: 10 men, Volkite Chargers, Sarge with Artificer Armor, Chainglaive, Melta Bombs

Terror Squad: 10 men, Volkite Chargers, Sarge with Artificer Armor, Chainglaive, Melta Bombs

Tactical Support Squad: 10men, Plasma or Melta - whichever points allow, Beware Armored Ceramite, Sarge with: Artificer Armor, Augury Scanner, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon or Chainglaive (if Possible), Drop Pod.

Elites:

(if going the Drop Pod Route - only take if points allow, Terror Squad goes down to 9men)

Apothecarion Detachment: 3 Apothercaries (1 per Terror Squad), Artificer Armor, Augury Scanner, Power Sword (optional)

(Weapon option depends on what your opponent will be fielding. if hes using a Spartan DeathConveyer, Grav Cannons are Priority #1 to stop it - also only take if points allow)

Rapier Battery: 3 Rapiers, Thudd Guns (or Grav Cannons if above condition is met)

Fast Attack:

Night Raptors Squad: 10men, 2 Melta Guns (fair enough), Sarge with Artificer Armor, Chainglaive and Melta Bombs. If points allow, consider up to 3 more Chainglaives in the unit.

Heavy Support:

This is a case of choose one since the RoW limits you to 1HS slot.

Fire Raptor: Reaper Autocannons

Sicaran Battle Tank: Armored Ceramite, Lascannons

Deredeo Dreadnought: Autocannons, Aiolos Missle Launcher

Its kinda cookie cutter but, hey, this is what most people have found to work the best at 2k using Night Lords. The only contentious point is the Heavy Support slot and how to make the best of it due to it having so many strong choices.

Elites and Fast Attack can, to an extent, help even things out but their options are often pricier and not as effective.

anyways, Plug this into Battlescribe and see how it point up

[Caillum]

That's some great advice Slips. :) This is exactly what I'm trying to build towards myself, but finetuning it is pretty difficult.

 

What are your thoughts on Konrad Curze instead of a Praetor? My thinking is that Stealth & Shrouded offer an alternative defence to the VSH, and you can trim the melee upgrades on the Raptors as he'll butcher everything, but you will have very little anti-tank...

[Spacefrisian]

I thought the 20 men tact squad was pretty nice in case of that "talent for murder" thingie.

[Slips]

That's some great advice Slips. :) This is exactly what I'm trying to build towards myself, but finetuning it is pretty difficult.

 

What are your thoughts on Konrad Curze instead of a Praetor? My thinking is that Stealth & Shrouded offer an alternative defence to the VSH, and you can trim the melee upgrades on the Raptors as he'll butcher everything, but you will have very little anti-tank...

At 2k, having to sacrifice 400pts of your list and using it for Curze only means that your diluting a lot of your potential power. Id only ever consider Primarchs at 2.5k+

 

But Curze is solid if you do get him in. Especially vs non-massed fearless armies.

 

Talent for murder is ok but using a 20 man 250+ point squad for a +1 to-wound is pretty meh and you can find a better way to do it.

[Spacefrisian]

Those Nightraptors also count as 20 models, thats what you mean right?

 

But i do stick with the 20men unit for now as thats what made me kind of agree on trying 30k, 20 men awesomness (my opponent will be throwing in a 20 men unit as well.)

[Slips]

Those Nightraptors also count as 20 models, thats what you mean right?

 

But i do stick with the 20men unit for now as thats what made me kind of agree on trying 30k, 20 men awesomness (my opponent will be throwing in a 20 men unit as well.)

Fair Enough. Though, in that case, potentially use only 2 Terror Squads + 20 Man Tac Blob and use the points saved from not using a 3rd tooled up Terror Squad to get some heavy hitting power, possibly something that can deal with Armor.

 

Yes, Bulky does make models count as 2 instead of 1 so your raptors are essentially 20men for the purpose of that rule.

[Spacefrisian]

Thats why was thinking about droppoding special weapon squads, 5 meltas should be able to do that right. 

 

Might as well throw in some Devastators with lascannons, but i havent seen them in any list so far. What is the reason behind that?

 

So like?

2 x 10 men terror squads with volkite charges, huntsmen with arteficer armour/ claw (+/-550 points)

 

20 Men Tactical unit, serge+ arteficer armour (+/- 260 points, without extra combat weapon stuff)

5 men specialweapon unit(melta), droppod (210 points)

 

10 Nightraptor: 2x melta gun (back up anti tank), headsmen: arteficer armour, melta bombs and power weapon (+/- 300 points)

 

With Centurion, aphotecary and a Praetor (or Sevatar?) iam well away on a 2k list.

[Slips]

Its because their Fragile and with a Single HS Slot with Terror Assault, a Deredeo, Las Vindicator, Sicaran and a Lot of other HS Options outshine Heavy Support Squads.

 

...mostly since they're more durable and pump out equivalent Firepower unless the Squad is 10 Lascannons at which point other options are now Substantially Cheaper. Its not that they're bad, its just that theres usually a better alternative. Unless your using 10 Volkite Culverins. Almost nothing beats their Anti-Infantry Firepower. http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marine_Legion_List_(30k)#Heavy_Support

 

As it stands, A JP Preator Might be a better option than Sevatar since the latter doesnt move as fast and, due to 7th ed rules changes, cant infiltrate with Terror Squads since he doesnt have the rule. That usually means hes used with something like a Terminator Unit in a Spartan, Land Raider, Storm Eagle or other Equivalent Transport.

 

As for the Consul of the Centurion its a toss up between Chappy or Apoth: Chappy gets you Zealot which can be useful when coupled with +1 to-wound due to Talent For Murder but the Apoths FNP can mitigate a lot of damage going your way.

[Caillum]

Don't forget guys that Terror Assault requires 3 Terror Squads as Compulsory Troops choices...

 

Minimum sqauds won't achieve a thing, so 10-man it is. Headsman also wants to be geared up - AA, MB, power weapon/fist/chainglaive. Then the squad has the third option - bolters, heavy chainblades or volkite chargers.

 

Bolters are ok if you want to be able to use the Terror Squads as Tacticals in other games. Heavy chainblades sound good on paper, as they're definitely a combat squad, and losing an attack to wound on a 2+ is good. But volkite chargers are where the money's at - 20 shots will kill 5 MEQs, then you get to charge a depleted squad and get your Talent for Murder bonus! 3+ to wound with up to 40 attacks is tasty. And your anti-infantry is covered.

 

Downside is that your Troops tax is around 825 points. Upside is they are amongst the best Troops in the game. :)

[Slips]

And here i thought i had properly reread terror assaults entry and thought that you could get away with a tac squad filling the 3rd compulsory :/

[Spacefrisian]

Well 60+ marines on the table already look impressiv, even if it will have a hard time breaking armour 14.

 

What about some cheap sentry guns with tl Lascannons, T6 is pretty durable and the amount of terrain we put down at our store i can provide it with a nice cover save. And for some odd reason its not a fortification. And i only have 1 Fast choice anyways so i can fill 2 slots with those (bit odd an immobile thing as a Fast attack choice). 

No doubt i have missed some stuff on that, i have been skimming over the rules.

 

Edit: Just a quick list, not 100% sure if its 1. legal, 2. points are correct.

Praetor: 165

-Paragon blade (masterfcraft), meltabomb, plasmapistol, throphies of judgement

-Rites of war: Nightlords

 

Centurion: 130

-Chaplain, arteficer armour, throphies of judgement, jumppack, meltabombs, refractor field

 

Aphotecary: x2 (90)

 

Tactical suqad: 20 (315)

-20x Bolter/ boltpistol/ccw, Legion Vexilla

-Sergeant: Arteficer armour, meltabombs

 

Terror Squad: 10 (275)

-10 Volkite charger

-Headhunter: Lightning claw, arteficer armour

 

Terror Squad: 10 (275)
-10 Volkite charger
-Headhunter: Lightning claw, arteficer armour

 

Terror Squad: 10 (270)
-9 Volkite charger
-Headhunter: plasmapistol, arteficer armour

 

Night Raptors: 10 (305)

-2 meltagun

-Huntsmen, Power weapon, meltabombs, arteficer armour

 

Attack bikes: 2 (100)

-Multimeltas

 

Tarantula Sentry gun: 2 (80) (seems i can add these right?)

-twinlinked lascannons

 

2000 points

 

Not optimal but at least it has some anti tank stuff in it.

[Slips]

Attack Bikes and Tarantulas can work in a pinch, so I see no real reason why you couldnt use them.

 

Though for 5pts more, you could swap both for a Deredeo Dreadnought :p Who has BS5, 4Twin-Linked S8 Shots that re-roll failed armor pen; though you'd need another 35pts if you want its missile launcher (always worth it).

 

As it stands, your list will work, but have some trouble with Armor. Good thing you've got a lot of Melta Bombs :p

[Spacefrisian]

For some reason iam expecting a Landraider anyway, dunno why. My opponent also tends to have this indirect fire IG tank with his list and a Predator (dakka version).

 

So yeah Meltabomb spam wherever possible.

 

Also a quick question, Nostraman Chainglaive states i can swap any power weapon with it for appropiate points cost, does this mean i can swap the Chaplains power weapon for it without any points cost? (cause a crozius thingy is basicly that)

[Slips]

For some reason iam expecting a Landraider anyway, dunno why. My opponent also tends to have this indirect fire IG tank with his list and a Predator (dakka version).

 

So yeah Meltabomb spam wherever possible.

 

Also a quick question, Nostraman Chainglaive states i can swap any power weapon with it for appropiate points cost, does this mean i can swap the Chaplains power weapon for it without any points cost? (cause a crozius thingy is basicly that)

No, sadly, chainglaives are always 10pts - though it might be a potential loophole.

 

The Medusa? Be wary of its S10 Ap2 Large Blasts if thats the one.

[Spacefrisian]

Had the battle yesterday, my opponent had (from head): 

 

Alpha legion: although he only used move through cover (i think he didnt use all the Alpha legion rules)

 

Praetor: Bike, paragon blade, mastercraft, digital lasers, bike

 

Centurion with some 1 time orbital strike and something so BS could be use with indirect fire when it had line of sight.

 

3 Aphotecaries, 1 was on a bike

 

2x20 Tact squads with bolter/boltpistol and ccw

 

Bike squad filled with tl plasmaguns

 

Predator with heavybolters and executioner cannon

 

2 super Whirlwinds with predator statts and a nasty rocket barage thing.

 

Was a though battle,  he went first and with 1 lucky shot from his Whirlwind he hit my Chaplain, and what are the odds you will fail 1 2+ armour save right? Well my chaplain was the first to be killed, i rolled a 1. My marines did stay around and no one fled (brave ones).

 

Than it basicly was a bombardment fest of blasts and more blasts...and more blasts.

 

I was kind of suprised that at turn 5 i somehow manage to score 1 objectiv and line breaker, this resulted in a draw. I think i did pretty well despite having my force nearly decimated, i had my Praetor, 3 tactical marines, 1 Terror marine and an Aphotecary remaining while he had only lost half a squad, his bike unit, bike aphotecary and 1 of the Whirlwinds. 

[Slips]

If he had an Apothecary on bike it was a Primus Medicae Consul. Orbital Strike dude is a Master of Signal.

 

Whirlwinds were Scorpii (Scorpius), yes they're nasty. probably one of the better 30k Tanks. Be Glad he didn't counter-infiltrate his Squads with Nuncio-Voxes to draw LoS for the D3+1 Barrage Shots of the Tank. 

 

I'm assuming he deployed in a way that wasn't conducive to Infiltrated Terror Squads? Also, shows why a LOT of us recommend Reliable ranged anti-tank. Because of things like the WW Scorpius, Sicaran, etc.

 

Still, the fact that you Tied is a very solid accomplishment seeing as you were up against a list with some pretty nasty Anti-Marine Firepower; being pretty much a counter to yours in almost every way.

 

Also, in the event that you haven't read the FAQ for the NL RoW:

 

 

Night Lords Unique Rite of War: Terror Assault (HH2 – page 239; ICL – page 57) Change the following effect:

 

Cover of Darkness: The force may impose Night Fighting for the duration of the first game turn of any mission on a D6 roll of 2+. Night Fighting imposed in this manner carries on to the second game turn on a roll of 4+, and on to the third turn on a roll of a 6. While Night Fighting is in effect, all models with the Legiones Astartes (Night Lords) special rule gain +1 Initiative and +1" to their Run distances.

 

From: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Horus_Heresy_7th_Edition.pdf Last Entry.

[Spacefrisian]

We had Nightfighting on first turn, 2nd turn i rolled a 2 for that anyways.

[Slips]

We had Nightfighting on first turn, 2nd turn i rolled a 2 for that anyways.

Its mostly to remind you that the book doesn't list the +1" to run and +1 To initiative. Small buffs but they can be useful.

[depthcharge12]

So just as some advice, I'd take either a Deredeo with auto cannons and the missile launcher, or a Venator tank destroyer :)

 

Don't forget that in your fast attack slot you can get a Xiphon interceptor (rules online on FW) which also packs a strong anti tank punch ;)

[Spacefrisian]

I think that for a possible next time i ditch the 20 men crusader unit for tanks or (not sure if possible but so far it seems to be) those special weapon tactical squads in droppods. Although those seem a bit expansiv in points for just 5 men, and a bit suicidal.

 

So Deimos Vindicator and a dreadnought seem a better choice, right? (we havent given flyers a thought btw)

[helterskelter]

Id consider a predator squadron too. For just shy of 400 you can get 3x plasma executioner, HB sponson tanks. Could make a jolly good mess of things

[Slips]

One Heavy Support Slot with Terror Assault so you need to make it count.

 

Of the options available, those that compete for being the strongest choice are:

• Fire Raptor: Airborne Dakka Machine that puts Dakka Planes to shame
• Sicaran: Solid Unit.
• LasVindicator: 3 S9 Ap1 Ordnance Shots are nothing to scoff at.
• Whirlwind Scorpius: You were on the receiving end of this
• Deredeo Dreadnought: Outperforms Mortis Dreads of pretty much all types (Dual Kheres still packs a punch but at half the range). Also Solves your Air Problems and being BS5 Twin-Linked, you'll rarely miss. Not to mention you can equip it with Plasma if you need TEQ Killing over Armor.
• Predator Squadron:1-3 Predators. Pretty wide range of options. The Standout, for me, is the Plasma And Magna Melta versions due to the pain they dish out though the 4 Shot Autocannons are solid choices.
• Venator: Fragile but has a ton of Tank Busting power. is usually a Giant Target.

The next set are choices that are strong but not as points efficient:

• Land Raider Squadron: 1-3 Land Raiders in a Squadron. 3 Tanks, 1 Slot.
• Artillery Squadron: 3 Medusa's bring some major pain with their S10 Ap2 Shots. Helps that you can spot for them with Nunci-Voxii so that you dont have to indirect fire.
• Caestus Assault Ram. Av13/13/12(11?) Flyer with a 5++ in the Front Arc, a Magna Melta and some decent Missiles. Can Ram and carry 10 Terminators. Pricey but, hey, its tough.

The Rest can be used but other slots can fulfill the same role adequately enough and with 1 Slot, only the strongest choices are really worth considering. Though, if you wanted to, you could take a 10 Man Heavy Support Squad and give them Lascannons, Missile Launchers or Autocannons to deal some damage. Lots of firepower but much more fragile than the other options. Volkite Culverin Squad pumps out silly Anti-Infantry damage. Since you already have a lot of it, not worth considering.

 

The Flyers are Strong but Pricey and usually pretty fragile.

• Xiphon Interceptor has 2 TLLC Shot and a Missile Launcher that forces jinks to be re-rolled and roll D3 Time for Armor Pen, take the best. Its Fast, it hits hard but its pricey.
• Primaris-Lightning: Very Flexible. Usually loaded up with Kraken Penetrators (36" Melta Bombs in Missile form) for Tank Hunting with Ground Tracking for BS5 and Servitors for Tank Hunters. Makes for a Deadly, Top Priority Flyer that has paper Armor. If theres a Deredeo on the field and this comes in, its pretty much dead. So make sure nothing can shoot it down.
• Storm Eagle: It can carry 20, can have 2 TLLC on the wings and either a TL MM or Missile Launcher on the Nose. Its ok damage but better kept cheap and as a Transport.
• already spoke about the Caestus and Fire Raptor
• Kharybdis Assault Claw: 20 Man Drop Pod. its Huge, Take a Heavy Slot and has meh-to-ok damage output. Not worth the single Heavy Slot, imo.

But yes, the 20 Man Tac Squad wasnt all that needed due to you already having 3 10man Terror Squads loaded up on anti-infantry (Volkites) already so they were a bit Superfluous. :P

 

For Support Squads, I spoke about them a bit before. better off as 10 Man Units to make the investment more worthwhile and to diminish the impact of losing models to return fire. Drop pods are solid but, if you have the points to give them a Land Raider Proteus as a Shield, an Av14 Brick to keep them safe wouldnt be a wasted investment.

 

Again, 10 man Terror Squad with Volkites mean that Tactical Support Squads with Volkite Chargers or Calivers are less worth it leaving you with: Plasma, Melta and Flamers.

• Plasma Makes them an immediate "OH GOD THEY GOTTA DIE" threat. And its plasma. So still a chance that, if the stars align, that the whole squad kills itself in the shooting phase by rolling enough 1s and/or 2s (armor save).
• Melta: While most people dismiss them due to vehicles having armored ceramite 9 times out of 10, they're still S8 (Ignores T4 FNP and Below) and Ap1. So they can still deal some hefty, if short ranged, damage.
• Flamers: meh. Unless you can get enough templates over the target unit to force an insane amount of saves, they're pretty worthless. They get better in ZM since they gain Shred.

So, consider the options.

[Caillum]

As usual, Slipstreams gives the best advice. :)

 

Spacefrisian - if you drop the Tac Marines, Attack Bikes and Tarantulas you can afford 3 laser destroyer Rapiers for anti-tank, Drop Pods for the Terror Squads, and a Deredeo (because it's good at everything). Something like:

 

HQ

Legion Praetor: paragon blade (master-crafted); melta bombs; digital lasers; iron halo; Trophies of Judgement; Terror Assault 190

Chaplain: artificer armour; melta bombs; refractor field; Trophies of Judgement; jump pack 135

 

TROOPS

9 Terror Squad Executioners: 9× volkite charger; + 1 Headsman (artificer armour; power weapon; volkite charger; melta bombs) 275

• Drop Pod 35

9 Terror Squad Executioners: 9× volkite charger; + 1 Headsman (artificer armour; power weapon; volkite charger; melta bombs) 275

• Drop Pod 35

9 Terror Squad Executioners: 9× volkite charger; + 1 Headsman (artificer armour; power weapon; volkite charger; melta bombs) 275

• Drop Pod 35

 

ELITES

Apothecary: artificer armour 55

3 Rapier Carriers: 3× laser destroyer array 165

 

FAST ATTACK

9 Night Raptors: 2× meltagun; + 1 Huntmaster (artificer armour; Nostraman chainglaive; melta bombs) 305

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought: Aiolos missile launcher 220

 

2,000 points

 

Having a 40k Salamanders army, I can attest to the strength of Drop Pods! The Praetor and Apothecary will have to start on the board with one Terror Squad, but you can still DPA the other 2 on the first turn. Helps with the Infiltration game...