Leman Russ Sponsons

[steellegionnaire85]

Gentlemen,

 

I have something I want to talk about. I am having some thoughts good or bad. I am looking at my army and I wonder. Do I need my Russes to have sponsons or not. I have 13 Russes. 2 exterminators. 2 punishers, 3 vanquishers, 1 executioner, 2 eradicators, and 3 regular main battle tanks. If some tanks need or should have sponsons please speak up. I am redoing my tanks at this moment so now is the time to figure out what I need to do. I want opinions and advice on how to go about my builds. All advice and comments are welcome.

[vampyrerodent]

Any tank that has a 'Heavy' weapon for its main gun, should have sponsons in my mind. Otherwise, the ordnance rules screw over the sponsons. The Punisher, Exterminator, and Executioner, and Eradicator are the ones that should get sponsons. And probably a pintle out too.

 

You should then focus on what you want the tanks to accomplish and add from there. Eradicator could benefit from heavy bolters. The Punisher the same. Exterminator is a hybrid and could go either anti-infantry the bolters or multi-melta if a tank hunter. The Exterminator works best with all plasma, but then you will be lucky to see it not kill itself.

 

Ideally, you want to compliment the main gun. Adding anti-tank to a anti-infantry vehicle can make it an all comer tank. Yet, it can make you pause when the situation arises that you can hope to get a lucky shot off on the Land Raider with the multi-meltas when you should have had heavy bolsters on there to just hose the command squad that just leapt out of it.

 

I always found it best to keep things simple. Make your tanks dedicated to one or the other and specialize on that.

 

That is my two cents. Remember your mileage may vary and other people have had success with other designs.

[morroccomole]

I agree with Vampyre. For any main gun that will force snapshots, sponsons are a waste of points on. I tend to run my tanks as command squadron vehicles, so I try to take advantage of the higher BS by cramming weapons on. Exterminator with plasma sponsons, or Punisher with heavy bolters. Even a Vanquisher with multimelta once. It makes them points sinks, and doesn't always work out, but when it does, it really tickles my pickle.

[Cap'm Heckus]

I second his assertion. "No" to the sponsons on the battle cannon or demolishers. "Yes" to sponsons on everything else. Well, maybe not the executioner, but the rest are better for having them. Executioner is good enough naked so the sponsons are completely optional.

 

As to what kind of sponsons? I like HBs on the eradicator/punishers but MMs on the Vanquisher (if anything at all). Your thought will be "I'll mix it up so my tank can handle whatever". No! Give him one job (based on its main gun) and stick to it so that no turn is wasted. The exterminator can kind of go either way. I recently tried the exterminator with MM and the results were pleasing. It was a light-tank-killing machine.

 

I've yet to have a good experience with either the heavy plasma or the heavy flamers (can't wall of death and if they are that close then I'm doing something wrong). That'd me. Results may vary.

[Quneitra]

I can't do much except echo everyone else in here - putting it on the ordnance tanks (LRBT or Demolisher) is a waste of points because it won't do anything but snapshot, and if you aren't firing the main gun you're doing something wrong. I' replace their heavy bolters with a heavy flamer just to give myself some close-in defense if I'm worried about the main gun scattering and damaging myself, but otherwise giving them sponsons is a sad waste of points. 

 

Again, when choosing sponsons, you want to complement the main gun. Vanqs, I don't use sponsons on them with my main list due to points limitations, but I hear MM works good. I used to run them with plasma cannon sponsons and it helped chew up high-value infantry/MCs and light vehicles. I don't think any other sponson would complement it well, since its a dedicated MC/tank hunter.

 

Executioners, when I have the luxury I like to run them with plasma sponsons to make the plasma deathstar of death. From my experience, Gets Hot! doesn't happen as often as it might seem (though that's dependent on how good/bad your rolls are), but still, take a plasma deathstar only if you're feeling ballsy. Otherwise, the main gun usually puts out enough damage to make the sponsons seem almost redundant.

 

I haven't used Exterminators, but there's plenty of leeway there, so I guess its probably best to kit it out for the role you intend it to fulfill in your list.

 

Eradicators are generally going to be going infantry hunting, so bolters are the best idea. I know plasma has also been tried, but I don't think it'll be efficient considering the AP of the main gun and the intended role of the Eradicator.

 

Punishers? BOLTER SPAM. Seriously, though, the Punisher will benefit from more anti-infantry shots, especially those with AP4, and anything else feels out of place. Plasma cannons may be an okay choice, but I feel that it would be situational.

 

What about heavy flamer sponsons? Heck no. If you're in template range of the enemy, you're probably about to get wrecked hard, and two heavy flamers aren't generally going to do much. 

[Frater Cornelius]

Every sub-forum has its favourite topics. SW have 'TWC loadout', GK (used to) have 'PAGK or Paladins vs GKTDA', AdMech has 'what Knight to play' and IG has 'Leman Russ Sponsons' :D

Kind of interesting, once you think about it.

[M@verik115]

Unless 'lumbering behemoth' returns, there is little point to most sponsons. But I like the look of them so they are still modeled on. 

[WarriorFish]

Sponsons are always useful. Even on the battle tank and Demolisher that have ordnance weapons forcing them to snap fire. Extra shots helps, also gives more chance of saving the main gun or providing alternate use should you lose it. The main guns of all the Russ variants are strong and capable in their different roles so sponsons are never explicitly needed. So the question always comes down to "can I spare the points"? That's a question that must be answered each time you make a list ;)

 

Don't forget to magnetise them, so then you may truly decide for each tank :tu:

[Emicus]

I haven't even built a Leman Russ yet but I'm in the camp that says HullPoints are a rare and treasured commodity.

Therefore spending points on things to make them more expensive without getting more treasure (HP) is a risky proposition.

 

What's better. 4LR with sponsons, or 5 without? It's all about the main gun after all! Heck it's probably more like 5 w/sponsons or 6 without..

 

The sentiment with "if it's Lumbering, don't bother" makes a lot of sense, but if your Vanquisher is getting outflanked or deepstruck on, perhaps firing 2x heavy flamers is a better call than the Vanquisher cannon.

Oh, and weapon destroyed results are much less scary with 4/5 weapons to 2, however rare they are.

 

Hmm, perhaps I like sponsons after all... Not that it'll matter with Battle Tanks and Demolishers :p

​

[march10k]

Firing 2x heavy flamers, or two of any kind of sponson, is a rare thing...it's really hard to find a target wide enough that both sponsons have line of sight to it...

 

I would approve of heavy bolter sponsons on punishers and exterminators, and maybe plasma sponsons on executioners.  Other than that, forget it!

[CoffeeGrunt]

Plus even four of the most expensive Sponsons, Plasma Cannons, only just makes the cost of the cheapest Russ, the Eradicator. If we're talking Heavy Flamers, those come in at 1/12th of the cost.

 

Really, if deep strikers are on your Vanquisher, it's either already dead to Melta, or your opponent was very unlucky with their rolls. Generally speaking most stuff that Deep Strikes won't care about a couple of Heavy Flamers. Sternguard, Crisis Suits, Wraithguard, etc all don't really care.

[steellegionnaire85]

So the general consensus is that sponsons are a point sink. The reason I ask these questions is because I am about to embark on a task that needs to be done. I have to strip all my tanks down and rebuild my mechanized units. I was already thinking about removing most of my sponsons. I want to build up with only a few sponsons tanks if any. I plan on building up my force with extra armor in the way of side skirts. Most of my tanks are old and deserve to be re kitted. What do you all think of the side skirts on the russes and chimeras I love the look. Any suggestions or comments. By the way I will be building my own side skirts.

[HenricusTyranicus]

Put sponsons on the non ordnance ones, except for the Vanquisher. Where else can you find very tough heavy bolters for 10 points each?

[WarriorFish]

FW do armoured Chimera skirts you can look at for inspiration, I can't imagine a vehicle mod much easier with a bit of plasticard :P

[CoffeeGrunt]

Put sponsons on the non ordnance ones, except for the Vanquisher. Where else can you find very tough heavy bolters for 10 points each?

 

Well, you can mount them on Chimeras, or Heavy Weapons Teams. The main problem is that Heavy Bolters aren't that great.

[march10k]

Lascannon hulls on vanquishers (and annihilators), heavy bolter sponsons on exterminators and punishers.  Maybe plasma sponsons on executioners.  No other sponsons or hull upgrades...it's up to you whether you want a hull heavy flamer, I'd be tempted on a demolisher for the rare case when it loses its turret but still has a hull point or two.  It's probably in the enemy's face, so you'll benefit from the HF more than the HB...but for longer-ranged ordnance russes, three snap shots from a HB is better than a useless flamer.

[Boomkapow]

What about Multi melta sponsons on Vanquisher? A buddy of mine and me have been discussing this for a while. Just curious on your concensus.

[WarriorFish]

Vanquisher wants to make use of the long range, popping high value enemy targets from safety ideally but there's every chance the enemy might get close enough for some MMs. Again comes down to points and if you feel you can spare them.

[Shamansky]

Exterminator with plasmas deserved my approval as good anti-MEQ vehicle in small games up to 1250 points. I also has a good chance to wreck any AV12-13 vehicle with 4-6 S7 shots. It becomes slightly expensive. But in most cases it kills enough to be on the table. Which i doubt will happen if i arm it with HB sponsons. Any thing that can be killed with heavy bolter is better be killed with lasguns. Usually i have flamers some where else like infantry squads and chimeras. Maybe if my local meta was not that full of MEQ and TEQ i'd used them on Russes too. I don't use sponsons only on demolisher as it becomes too expensive. I think spare guns are must have on all other types. Just dont glue them.

[WarriorFish]

Indeed, much comes to your meta of course but that's one of the many great things about the Russ - plenty of sponson choices and just as importantly very easy to swap between them :) Options are never a bad thing and with the variety of main cannons available there is a Russ build for every occasion :D

 

HBs aren't bad, certainly much better than lasguns against anything with higher toughness of a 4+ save and are generally a good default choice as a vehicle weapon. This is one of the reasons why HBs aren't a popular infantry weapon as they're easily found on our tanks.

[CoffeeGrunt]

IMO Salvo 4/2 would be more fitting for Heavy Bolters, but they are what they are, and that's unlikely to change.

[Frater Cornelius]

What I like about 30k is that vehicle-mounted weapons get more shots with the same weapons that infantry would carry. If I am not mistaken, the AC on the Predator has 6 shots as opposed to 2.

Something like that would make non-IG tanks worth taking, but might make IG tanks OTT though.

[CoffeeGrunt]

What I like about 30k is that vehicle-mounted weapons get more shots with the same weapons that infantry would carry. If I am not mistaken, the AC on the Predator has 6 shots as opposed to 2.

Something like that would make non-IG tanks worth taking, but might make IG tanks OTT though.

 

You might be thinking of the Sicaran, which gets 6 Twin-Linked, Rending Autocannon shots that Ignore Jink Saves. 

[WarriorFish]

HBs are old and entrenched within the system so yeah, no chance of a change. It's not like they're terrible, just that the Guard isn't hurting for anti-infantry capabilities on our troops. Just make them cheaper than autocannons please, then we'll talk ;)

[Reyner]

 

What I like about 30k is that vehicle-mounted weapons get more shots with the same weapons that infantry would carry. If I am not mistaken, the AC on the Predator has 6 shots as opposed to 2.

Something like that would make non-IG tanks worth taking, but might make IG tanks OTT though.

 

You might be thinking of the Sicaran, which gets 6 Twin-Linked, Rending Autocannon shots that Ignore Jink Saves. 

 

The Predator Autocannon gets 4 shots in the Heresy rules. So you have the Sicaran tearing things up but Predators got a reasonable boost too (I won't go into the Predator Exectioner that doesn't get hot when it fires hehe)