Las-Plas Razorbacks. Hot or not?

[Paikis]

I found this discussion/write-up on reddit, was wondering how other people think the las-plas razorback goes.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/3hxi90/tactics_i_think_lasplas_razorbacks_are_one_of_the/

[Daevyll]

I like them, but not for tactical squads. Reason is they can only fit 6, and I like my tac squads at full strength. Rhinos for tac squads imo.

 

Razorbacks seem to be tailor-made for command squads, since I tend to use my command squads in a reserve role. They can provide supporting fire while the csquad sits in the razorback awaiting the moment when they are needed somewhere, then the razorback can rush them to that location. Afterwards it will either soak some fire away from the squad and die, or continue to provide AP2 covering fire for them. 

[Brother_Mike]

If you have a place in your lists for them, I'd give them a shot (a twin linked one i mean HA). I've noticed most Blood Angels lists have a tons of weaponry (both at range and in hand to hand) to deal with 3+ saves and up plus vehicles, but there always seems to be a lack of AP2 weaponry (unless someone is stacking grav weapons in their bike or sternguard squads).

 

Now that doesn't mean you need a ton of AP2 weaponry, since it isn't required for most enemies, but when you need it and don't have it...

[Grazcruzk]

I've got a lasplas razor in the works and I'm considering using the leftover lascannon and my last two plasma guns to make another turret for my other razor/rhino. I like the idea of them, especially if you have other targets that 'need' to be dealt with first. Everything is situational, though.

[BAjim]

I've got a lasplas razor in the works and I'm considering using the leftover lascannon and my last two plasma guns to make another turret for my other razor/rhino. I like the idea of them, especially if you have other targets that 'need' to be dealt with first. Everything is situational, though.

I have recently scratch built LasPlas turret like Grazcruzk mentions

My experience of LasPlas Razors has been favourable and I try to take one with a Tactical squad who have a Lascannon. It can project force or defend an objective.

My current 1850 point mechanized list also has a Sicaran, a Damocles command Rhino, a Twinlinked Lascannon Razorback and a Stormraven. All earned their points against mechanized Black Templars

[Brother Raul]

Guess the old proverb applies here, if you take one, take two.

[Morticon]

There was a discussion on this recently - it maaay have been in one of my tourney threads.  But, the summary was- for BA, las/plas are amazing.  12" and all that firepower makes for much needed AP2 support.   I highly, highly recommend. 

[Paikis]

I'd be interested in reading this discussion if you can find it? IN'll look for myself and link it here if I find it.

[Bukimimaru]

I've got 3 Razorbacks left over from the good old days when Assault marines were troops and they could take heavily discounted Razors.

I've really been struggeling to find a use for them now though.

 

I dont have a command squad, and even if I did almost all the HQ's i regularly use have jump packs, so I guess my command squad would too.

My Sternguard have dedicated drop-pods and my TACs like their 10-capacity Rhinos.

 

I always liked the Razorbacks and AP2 is always a welcome addition to a BA list, but without having anything to transport in it, it becomes a very expencive and fragile target with wheels.

[nevaenuffbass]

I have found them worth their points. Comparable to a landspeeder in cost.

 

Being fast attack makes them good as well. Buy a second one for the other half of your tac squad, if you are so inclined.

 

Sneaky trick is buying 6 of them and putting allies in them - inq henchmen with special weapons are uber-cheap points-wise

[Morticon]

I find that SM usually have expensive troops for what they can do.  It's sadly the game mechanic we're stuck with.  But, because of this, we usually wind up putting the actual marines in the background and use all the shooty or fighty/hard stuff up front.  

 

Its because of that, that the Razors are awesome.  

They can disembark, and support where needed, if needed, but otherwise just stay out of trouble, zipping around scoring and claiming late game.

 

 

The benefit of the razorback (and the lasplas specifically) shouldnt be viewed in terms of what the las/plas can do by itself, but rather how it affects target priority and overall list synergy. 

 

1x Lascannon and 1or 2x plasma shots is a nasty amount of firepower for heavy infanty and MCs or vehicles.  This means that you elevate the threat assessment of the razor.  But, if you have 6 other things on the field (including 2 other razors) that can do as much, or more damage,the enemy is really start having to make hard choices.  

 

The idea is to build a list that makes the enemy pay for shooting at the razorbacks, because the las/plas lends itself to making the enemy pay for not shooting at them already!  

[Indefragable]

Personally, I think they are one of the best units we have in our book.

 

Fast, toothy and (relatively) cheap...what's not to like?

 

I use them to ferry 5-6man Tac squads with a Heavy Flamer around. This gives the squad mobility and a range of firepower plus 2 Troops Units that can break off to hold 2 seperate objectives when necessary. Speaking of holding objectives...a Fast vehicle w/ a 48" AP2 weapon? As a late-game objective claimer? Not too shabby.

 

I have also had great success "kiting" units such as the Iron Hands Chapter Master on a bike with them. See above part about "Fast vehicle with 48" AP2 weapon."

 

Here's the caveat: (like so many things) you need the right number of them. A single Las/plas is not going to turn the tide in your favor. Their effectiveness is proportional to the number of AV targets you create for your enemy.

 

My go-to for a while was .

 

1x Predator w/ Overcharged Engines, Autocannon and Lascannon Sponsons

1x Vindicator w/ Overcharged Engines, Stormbolter (for ablative weapon destroyed), and Siege Shield (optional as well)

2x Razorbacks w/ Lascannon/TL Plasma gun

 

That gives 4x armored targets that each present a unique threat to the enemy.

 

 

Where my eyes were really opened to their potential was in a 1000pt game vs Harlequin/Dark Eldar. I had 2x Razorbacks, 1x Las/Plas and 1x TL Assault Cannon. The Las/Plas was the MVP because it just sped around kiting the enemy taking potshots well beyond the range of what he could ever hope to do. Granted he had a very CQC oriented army (wracks and Talos) but I think it gets the idea across.

[Charlo]

Okay so a tangent topic to this guys; LasPlas Razors seem pretty boss for us as they're fast, but what do you put in them?

 

How do you arm the little Tac squad? Do you take a ten man, combat it and have a Heavy weapon holding a backfield while the special and sergeant go hunting in the box?

[CaptainHelion]

In my Razor, I run a squad of five Tacs with a Power Sword and a Combi-flamer on the Veteran Sergeant, and a Heavy Flamer. They dismount, and fry a bunch of someones, usually.

[tjr]

In my Razor, I run a squad of five Tacs with a Power Sword and a Combi-flamer on the Veteran Sergeant, and a Heavy Flamer. They dismount, and fry a bunch of someones, usually.

 

That doesn't sound half bad. A lightning claw would make more sense though. 

[Charlo]

 

In my Razor, I run a squad of five Tacs with a Power Sword and a Combi-flamer on the Veteran Sergeant, and a Heavy Flamer. They dismount, and fry a bunch of someones, usually.

 

That doesn't sound half bad. A lightning claw would make more sense though. 

 

 

I think you can have a bolt pistol, combi and power weapon for the extra attack in CC - as you'd swap the bolter for the combi and the chainsword for the power weapon in the armoury.

 

I'm not 100% though as the whole swap from the armoury writing is terrible at best (just look at Relics in differing codexii)

[CaptainHelion]

Unfortunately not. The Sergeant starts with Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, so the Lightning Claw does make more sense. But power swords are way cooler when you've only got one.

[Charlo]

Shame! Only thing about lightning claws is that they're a powerfist with things stuck on. Always looks a little weird.

[CaptainHelion]

Essentially, yeah. I've been considering how to convert up a LC to look less like a powerfist, but that's yet another project on the List Of Projects I Keep Starting, you know?

[Paikis]

Just as a rules clarification, do you get to fire both the las-cannon and the plasmagun in one shooting phase, or do you have to pick one?

[tjr]

Just as a rules clarification, do you get to fire both the las-cannon and the plasmagun in one shooting phase, or do you have to pick one?

 

Since BA transports have Overcharged Engines, they're "fast" vehicles.

 

Fast vehicles are allowed to go cruising speed (12") and still fire two weapons (iirc.). We also flat-out 12".

 

So yes, you are allowed to fire both. They also count as two separate weapons if the Razor suffers a "weapons destroyed".

[Riot Earp]

I will test a list with 6 Tacs in Razorbacks. 3xLasplas 3xAssault Cannons. 

Massed canned mobile Objective secured units. what is not to like.

[Charlo]

I will test a list with 6 Tacs in Razorbacks. 3xLasplas 3xAssault Cannons.

Massed canned mobile Objective secured units. what is not to like.

This is pretty much one of the best things Marines having going for them, the only real shame is that you could run that in vanilla for a lot cheaper (to an extent, the other compulsory units may prove me wrong) because of the battle company.

 

But then again, red ones do go faster ;) and we get heavy flamers in our tacticals :D

[Xenith]

Damn. I really want a las plas razorback now :-/

[Stercus]

Essentially, yeah. I've been considering how to convert up a LC to look less like a powerfist, but that's yet another project on the List Of Projects I Keep Starting, you know?

Apologies if I'm derailing the thread slightly, but I had the same thought and came up with this guy:

Again, sorry to butt in. as you were gentlemen.