Las-Plas Razorbacks. Hot or not?

[Paikis]

 

Just as a rules clarification, do you get to fire both the las-cannon and the plasmagun in one shooting phase, or do you have to pick one?

 

Since BA transports have Overcharged Engines, they're "fast" vehicles.

 

Fast vehicles are allowed to go cruising speed (12") and still fire two weapons (iirc.). We also flat-out 12".

 

So yes, you are allowed to fire both. They also count as two separate weapons if the Razor suffers a "weapons destroyed".

 

 

So, correct me if I'm wrong, I can move up to 12 inches, then shoot both the las and the TL plas (at the same target)?

 

If I move between 12 and 18? inches I can fire one weapon at full BS and snapshot the other and if I flat out I only get snapshots?

[Jolemai]

You can only move up to 12" in the Movement Phase. In the Shooting Phase you have the option of shooting (as per the normal rules for Shooting and those that govern Fast Vehicles) or going Flat Out (which is 6" more than normal due to the Razorback being a Fast Vehicle).

[evildrcheese]

Re: what to Transport, as mentioned combat squading is an really versatile tool, giving a heavy weapon like ML or LC and having it sit back with 4 bolter ablative wounds is a good way to use the other half of a tac squad. As for in the transport a 5man tac with special and a matching combi on the sgt is cool.

 

D

[terminatorAM]

 

I will test a list with 6 Tacs in Razorbacks. 3xLasplas 3xAssault Cannons.

Massed canned mobile Objective secured units. what is not to like.

This is pretty much one of the best things Marines having going for them, the only real shame is that you could run that in vanilla for a lot cheaper (to an extent, the other compulsory units may prove me wrong) because of the battle company.

 

But then again, red ones do go faster ;) and we get heavy flamers in our tacticals :D

Other chapters may get cheaper troops, but can't we actually buy razors WITHOUT troops in them? I don't have my codex with me, but I thought these guys could be purchased as fast attack units unto themselves, meaning empty. Then the Flesh Tearer formation allows 6 of these to be taken. I haven't seen the new SM Dex, but does it allow other chapters to purchase 6 tanks without also paying for troops and without using heavy support slots?

[Marvin_the_Martian]

Yes, you can buy an empty Razorback as a Fast Attack slot.

 

I can't speak to what the new SM codex offers in terms of formations but I don't think there's a formation for just taking empty Razorbacks, if that's what you're asking.

[Marvin_the_Martian]

As for whether las-plas razorbacks are great units, I totally agree with Brother_Mike that BA are lacking in great AP2 ranged options and that las-plas razorbacks can help fill that gap. I'm not so sure that you really want a transport filing that gap though, especially if it needs to sit at long range to remain effective into the late game.

 

If you're using a razorback to transport tactical marines or assault marines, chances are, those marines are packing special weapons that are only really effective at 12" or less. If those marines are just sitting in the Razorback as it's taking pot shots with its single lascannon at 48", waiting for the end of the game so that it can zip around and claim objectives, there's a lot of points just sitting idle waiting for the end of the game without helping to ensure that you're actually in control at the end of the game.

 

Bukimimaru hit the nail on the head: there's no unit in the codex which works really benefits from being transported in razorbacks. That's even more true if you plan on having your razorback stay back and take pot shots at 48". 

 

In summary, without the old 35 point discount, las-plas razorbacks are too expensive for the kind of firepower they offer in return for their limitations as a transport.

 

edit: gammar.

[Brother Raul]

Marvin in his above post makes some really valid points that got me thinking. I think a vindi or a pred variety would help with target saturation and I really think they need to still be used as transports e.g driven forward to deploy their contents but shots need to be viewed as a 'bonus' and oppertunitistic.

 

Now this severely affects what you should transport. The vindi and pred should ensure you get off two rounds of shooting, provide a cover save for dc AND get some shooty/ assault units into position.

 

Sternguard are an option. Vanguard MC hunters absolutely. Tac squads is prob best as they will technically reduce threat but I dont think combat squading them is a good idea; heavy flamers are the best of our HW and suit using a razor agressively. Imagine the razor screeching to a halt, the 6 man tac squad deploying and roasting then dc smashing into the enemy emerging from the cover of the razor.

 

Combat squading a LC or a ML into the back field isnt a strength. Your running at least x2 TL LC razors and probably a couple of meltacide pods so why more anti tank?

[Brother Raul]

Ooops forgot the other units that a razor suits as a transport. Devs? Been trying to find a way to use all those left over HB for a dev squad and this might be it. Think Remtek had been deploying his melta asm via razor recently with good results but he will need to confirm that.