Corbulo Far-Seeing Eye question.

[Charlo]

Aye, Morticons answer clears it up pretty well for me too. If any one complained I'd show them that.

[Servant of Dante]

I prefer to use Corbulo with 7 assault termies in a land raider. 2+/5+ saves are amazing. That +1 WS is also very worth it. Corbulo gives some significant cc buffs. Use them on a significant cc unit.

[evildrcheese]

I prefer to use Corbulo with 7 assault termies in a land raider. 2+/5+ saves are amazing. That +1 WS is also very worth it. Corbulo gives some significant cc buffs. Use them on a significant cc unit.

That sounds decent actually. Corbs and Meph would make a right good power couple to throw in with some TH/SS termies. Trouble is they'd need a ride and that would make the squad really pointy.

 

D

[Brother Raul]

Morticon's explaniation is spot on. Lingustically 'the dice' qualifies as either players dice. 'Yours' or 'theirs' qualifies specifically. The dice is neutral and inclusive where as the pronouns imply ownership.

[librisrouge]

If anything, this seems to be the best way to make it so that they enemy almost never seizes on you. If they make the 6, use the reroll on that. If they don't, save it for an ID wound that their warlord saves.

[ItsPug]

It will only apply to your rolls, you have to have rolled the dice in order to re-roll it.

 

If you choose to play it the other way, then the strategic warlord trait "Strategic Genius" allows you to reroll your opponents reserves as it says you may "re-roll any Reserve rolls (failed or successful)."

[Charlo]

It will only apply to your rolls, you have to have rolled the dice in order to re-roll it.

 

If you choose to play it the other way, then the strategic warlord trait "Strategic Genius" allows you to reroll your opponents reserves as it says you may "re-roll any Reserve rolls (failed or successful)."

I'd almost say that would confirm letting you reroll your opponents reserves? I mean, your warlord is a genius after all :P

[Lucien Eilam]

I don't buy it. It's not your dice to roll. It allows you to re-roll a dice, I don't believe there's anything in the game that allows you to roll your opponent's dice on their behalf. I would need far more explicit wording than this to allow it.

[Charlo]

But it says "the dice" to steal the initiative. There is only one dice in this case, be it yours or the opponents. It's quite clear cut to me. It's an unusual rule though, very unique. If anything it can be chalked up to poor writing. Like vanilla command squads and the quest on of "can I give a veteran a plasma gun then upgrade him to an Apothecary?"

[evildrcheese]

 

It will only apply to your rolls, you have to have rolled the dice in order to re-roll it.

 

If you choose to play it the other way, then the strategic warlord trait "Strategic Genius" allows you to reroll your opponents reserves as it says you may "re-roll any Reserve rolls (failed or successful)."

I'd almost say that would confirm letting you reroll your opponents reserves? I mean, your warlord is a genius after all :P

Heh. Charlo, you're by far the funniest character on this sub-forum.

 

Any got the exact wording on this warlord trait? I'm no where near a rule book.

 

D

[Lucien Eilam]

But it says "the dice" to steal the initiative. There is only one dice in this case, be it yours or the opponents.

 

That means nothing. It might be your dice, it might be my dice, there may be no dice to seize the initiative at all. If the dice is yours, you can re-roll it. You ain't touching mine.

 

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Given that nothing else in the game allows you to roll your opponent's dice for them, this is an extraordinary claim. Extraordinary evidence would be an explicit statement that you can re-roll either player's dice, not "ah, but it never actually said whose dice, ho ho ho!"

[Morticon]

I don't buy it. It's not your dice to roll.

 

You're 100% right in regards to the strategic trait. Because it specifies "you".

 

From Strategic Trait:

"You add +1 to any Seize the Initiative roll. In addition, whilst your Warlord is alive, YOU can re-roll any Reserve Rolls (failed or successful)."

 

 

However Far-seeing Eye wording doesn't specify that it needs to be yours.  It makes allowance for it to be the opponent by the wording that uses "the".

 

Once again:

 

"Once per game, as long as Corbulo has not been removed as a casulty, this ability may be used to do one of the following:

• Re-roll the dice to Sieze the Initiative.
• Re-roll the dice to see if a unit arrives from Reserve.
• Re-roll a single dice used in a To Hit or To Wound roll, or a single dice used in a saving throw.
• Re-roll a single scatter dice."

Can you see "you" or "your" mentioned there?

Still no existing argument besides knee-jerk and status-quo fallacies that is currently devaluing this.  Open to hear if anyone can find anything.

We've actually provided evidence for the claim by citing the allowance for the mechanic in the verbiage.

 

 Its now up to you to provide evidence contrary to that.

[Lucien Eilam]

Can you see "you" or "your" mentioned there?

 

Read my post again. I didn't suggest any such thing. I said you're not touching my dice without an explicit statement in the rules that you're allowed to do so. Poor wording does not, in my opinion, constitute permission to do something that exists nowhere else in the game.

[Morticon]

As stated in my earlier post, explicit statements are not required.  Allowances and affordances are sufficient requirements in any ruleset. And the interpretation presented meets that requirement.

 

Your value judgement of the wording holds as much weight as mine, and cannot be considered support for an argument - especially not when the wording is all we have to work with.

Additionally, i'm not touching your dice.  You're the one re-rolling it.  Corbs' ability just allows me to get you to do that. 

[Remtek]

To much hassle trying to convince opponent of the wording, but it looks legit! I looked in the BRB for any mention of manipulating opponents dice, but can't find any. 

[Xenith]

To much hassle trying to convince opponent of the wording, but it looks legit! I looked in the BRB for any mention of manipulating opponents dice, but can't find any. 

 

Misfotune, some other eldar power, if I remember correctly, makes your opponent reroll passed saves, so some such.

[Indefragable]

I love this Eye of Tzeentch---we, Far-Seeing-Eye of Corbulo.

 

Just based on how people's heads are exploding trying to figure it out, all you have to do is casually mention this power and how it works to an opponent at the start of the game. You win..b/c either:

 

A) he will be like "ok" and boom you get to re-roll whatever the heck you want

B) he will spend so much time pulling up the BRB, combing the Internet etc... Trying to prove ways to refute it that it will distract him from actually playing the game. Heck even pull up this thread and show it to him. It's the ultimate Distraction Carnifex

[LutherMax]

I'm not sure... I see validity in the arguments in both camps but I think the wording would be deliberately more explicit if it allowed you to force your opponent to re-roll, seeing as that is quite unusual. Worth contacting GW to clarify I reckon.

[evildrcheese]

I'm not sure... I see validity in the arguments in both camps but I think the wording would be deliberately more explicit if it allowed you to force your opponent to re-roll, seeing as that is quite unusual. Worth contacting GW to clarify I reckon.

This. I'm willing to drop a email to GW to ask for an FAQ on this.

 

Who knows, maybe we'll even see an answer before the Great Crusade begins(!).

 

The fall back is always to roll off on the interpretation.

 

D

[Brother Raul]

From my understanding the BA player definately doesn't reroll the dice for their opponent, just forces them to reroll. Can't see how this is misunderstood.

[Charlo]

From my understanding the BA player definately doesn't reroll the dice for their opponent, just forces them to reroll. Can't see how this is misunderstood.

+1 to this.

[LutherMax]

From my understanding the BA player definately doesn't reroll the dice for their opponent, just forces them to reroll. Can't see how this is misunderstood.

The ambiguity is that it's not quite explicit whether only your own roll can be re-rolled, or either yours OR your opponent's.

[Brother Raul]

Just refering to the physical rolling. A core game dynamic is you never roll your opponents dice and think that might have add to the semantic chaos that we are generating in this discussion :)

[Spagunk]

@brother raul: The physical rolling isn't the question. Rather whether the power allows you to force a re-roll. There is no ownership applied to the description.

[Brother Raul]

@Spagunk, Totally agree brother was just trying to tighten the discussion as there seemed to be some previous confusion.

 

I think the argument is sound, but I am affraid of the resistance I an going to get playing this rule. It fits fluff too, Sanguinus saw what the bad guys would do.