Today the DC did NOT kill...

[Indefragable]

Death Company are one of my favorite units in the game. I am a firm believer in their capabilities.

 

I have to admit that my faith is shaken a bit after my game against Orks yesterday (surprisingly, first time ever against Orkz despitehaving a few players in my club).

 

I had one of my go-to units of 10x DC with jump packs, 1x Power Fist/Boltgun and Astorath in there as well.

 

They charged 26 Ork 'Ard boyz (Ork Boyz w/ 4+ armor). Their pistols killed 2 of them and then the charge killed 8. That's including re-rolls on To-Hit and To-Wound from Astorath. 45+ S5 attacks.

 

My DC have killed everything on both ends of the spectrum: Assault Terminators and Conscripts with relative ease (killing units in 1-2 rounds of combat). However, his unit seems like an amazing middle ground that really blunts the blades of the DC. T4 with 4+ armor and LOTS of it really soaked up the damage of the DC.

 

Did I roll really badly or this just a "perfect" counter unit?

[Charlo]

T4 and 4+ is a very odd combination you don't see outside of Scouts, and even then Ard Boys have a lot more bodies. I can see why you'd struggle, especially after the first round without Rage. Without factoring in power weapons of Astorath 8 orks is the mathematical average for the DC attacks, so you killed a little under the average.

 

The way they won was purely through weight of numbers it would seem, they had the bodies to absorb your casualties and then strike back while you didn't have enough to take it.

[BadDice0809]

I'm just surprised a Pain boy wasn't in there giving them FNP as well! A guy who plays orks at my shop loves that blob. I either throw Sanguinary Guard w/ Priest and Dante at it, or multi charge ONE blob with Death Company and EVERY nearby squad. They are an awesome tarpit. The key is ignore the armor or drown in even more attacks. And get rid of the Nobs or painboyz early. If they get both saves one squad isn't going to break them.

[evildrcheese]

Did you manage to sweep the unit?

 

D

[Indefragable]

1. He did have a painboy in there.

2. I got annhilated. My guys lasted two rounds. He charged in with another 10-boy squad and his Warboss/Nobs in the second round, but honestly I think that was overkill. I only killed 5 more boys the second round. Power klaws really hurt. Astorath killed I think 1 person a round. Go figure.

[Cronhour]

its why I always throw a power sword in there tbh, though with irks a maul would be better I suppose.

[Indefragable]

its why I always throw a power sword in there tbh, though with irks a maul would be better I suppose.

I was using the following: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311563-decapitation-force-2000pts/

 

...somewhat of a gimmicky list but still I was suprised just how little output I got from Astorath's10 man group.

 

Lemartes' 6 man DC unit did pretty well until everyone but him got zapped by the Tellyporta gun (and considering all the Orky hijinks that can caused throughout the game up until that point, I really can't be mad). He then got charged by 15 boys and managed to take 4 down with him. Damn Power Klaws.

 

I have often thought about throwing a Power Sword in the mix but I always end up going boyz over toyz and just trying to find another body.

[Charlo]

That's a cool list dude! Must've been really fun to play.

 

I asked a question in that thread, to stop derailing this one!

[Black Marshal]

math hammer says non power weapons attacks should kill 10 Power fist 2.9 and power axe 1.6. Total of 14.5. And second round of combat math hammer says you should kill 5 more. And with a couple gone from shooting before hand you hit it perfect to kill the unit on his turn.

 

the dice just do what the dice are going to do

[tjr]

I've found blob-Boyz (with boss pole) very hard to sweep. I really hate that mob rule.

 

My opponent usually also bring a mek to soak up challenges, so the power klaw gets to strike.

[appiah4]

Death Company are one of my favorite units in the game. I am a firm believer in their capabilities.

 

I have to admit that my faith is shaken a bit after my game against Orks yesterday (surprisingly, first time ever against Orkz despitehaving a few players in my club).

 

I had one of my go-to units of 10x DC with jump packs, 1x Power Fist/Boltgun and Astorath in there as well.

 

They charged 26 Ork 'Ard boyz (Ork Boyz w/ 4+ armor). Their pistols killed 2 of them and then the charge killed 8. That's including re-rolls on To-Hit and To-Wound from Astorath. 45+ S5 attacks.

 

My DC have killed everything on both ends of the spectrum: Assault Terminators and Conscripts with relative ease (killing units in 1-2 rounds of combat). However, his unit seems like an amazing middle ground that really blunts the blades of the DC. T4 with 4+ armor and LOTS of it really soaked up the damage of the DC.

 

Did I roll really badly or this just a "perfect" counter unit?

 

This is why you should be taking Boltguns on every DC marine always, and at least 2 Power Fists.

[Indefragable]

 

 

Death Company are one of my favorite units in the game. I am a firm believer in their capabilities.

 

I have to admit that my faith is shaken a bit after my game against Orks yesterday (surprisingly, first time ever against Orkz despitehaving a few players in my club).

 

I had one of my go-to units of 10x DC with jump packs, 1x Power Fist/Boltgun and Astorath in there as well.

 

They charged 26 Ork 'Ard boyz (Ork Boyz w/ 4+ armor). Their pistols killed 2 of them and then the charge killed 8. That's including re-rolls on To-Hit and To-Wound from Astorath. 45+ S5 attacks.

 

My DC have killed everything on both ends of the spectrum: Assault Terminators and Conscripts with relative ease (killing units in 1-2 rounds of combat). However, his unit seems like an amazing middle ground that really blunts the blades of the DC. T4 with 4+ armor and LOTS of it really soaked up the damage of the DC.

 

Did I roll really badly or this just a "perfect" counter unit?

This is why you should be taking Boltguns on every DC marine always, and at least 2 Power Fists.

Ah yes. The Bolter vs bolt pistol debate.

 

My logic is that...

 

... a Bolter gives you 2x S4 AP5 shots before charging in, + 4x S5 AP- attacks on the charge...

 

...while bolt pistol/CQW gives you 5x S5 AP- attacks on the charge per (non Power Fist) DC Marine, re-rolling both To-Hit AND To-Wound with Astorath.

 

I figured that more S5 Hits would be better overall.

 

Also, how would AP5 bolsters help against 4+ Sv 'Ard Boys?

[Captain Caine 24th]

As stated above, I usually take a power sword and a power fist or two. I just like having those extra attacks at imitative. And, if things go to round two, I like the power sword there too. It's hard to say the power sword is a must take, but it's made the difference for me many times.  I (perhaps foolishly) get my death company tied up in combats above their real capability frequently. 

 

I think death company have a great volume of attacks they can put out at AP- and they're fairly tough. Yet, I've come to learn the great counter to AP-- attacks is a decent save and feel no pain, reanimation protocols, it will not die, or rerolling saves like against bullgryns with a priest. It's that extra little roll, even at a 5+ that mitigates a lot of damage. And, I mean that very point is what makes death company great at surviving. I miss the old days of the 4+ feel no pain.

 

As for bolters on death company, I've tried it and think it's fine. It gives them flexibility. I only give them bolters if I'm trying to make them more flexible for a particular list.  Like drop pods for example, I find I lack movement after the first turn and like to have a little extra range later on. 

 

In the end I'm not sure that you made a bad choice.  Orks can be sneaky--they look like idiots,(and let's be honest they often times are just that) but can really pack a surprising punch if you aren't careful.  I don't use Astrorath often, but that's just a style difference between you and I and not genuine complaint.  As far as the rules Dante's hit and run would get more mileage, but Astrorath or Lemartes are far better for the storyline

[Indefragable]

As stated above, I usually take a power sword and a power fist or two. I just like having those extra attacks at imitative. And, if things go to round two, I like the power sword there too. It's hard to say the power sword is a must take, but it's made the difference for me many times.  I (perhaps foolishly) get my death company tied up in combats above their real capability frequently. 

 

I think death company have a great volume of attacks they can put out at AP- and they're fairly tough. Yet, I've come to learn the great counter to AP-- attacks is a decent save and feel no pain, reanimation protocols, it will not die, or rerolling saves like against bullgryns with a priest. It's that extra little roll, even at a 5+ that mitigates a lot of damage. And, I mean that very point is what makes death company great at surviving. I miss the old days of the 4+ feel no pain.

 

As for bolters on death company, I've tried it and think it's fine. It gives them flexibility. I only give them bolters if I'm trying to make them more flexible for a particular list.  Like drop pods for example, I find I lack movement after the first turn and like to have a little extra range later on. 

 

In the end I'm not sure that you made a bad choice.  Orks can be sneaky--they look like idiots,(and let's be honest they often times are just that) but can really pack a surprising punch if you aren't careful.  I don't use Astrorath often, but that's just a style difference between you and I and not genuine complaint.  As far as the rules Dante's hit and run would get more mileage, but Astrorath or Lemartes are far better for the storyline

 

I tend to go for the throat (maybe I am one of those BA exchanged to the Luan Wolves...) most of the time so if my DC aren't charging they are setting up for the charge.

 

If DC are by themselves, I think bolters are an option but when you have re-rolls I think the extra CQC attacks, especailly S5, are more worthwhile.