Best BA units to take down fellow marines?

[Raverbasher]

Other than Grav guns (on bikes, in tactical units etc.) what's the best way for taking on other Space Marines and Terminators with Blood Angels?

 

I'm torn between a 10 strong Death Company toting 5 Infernus Pistols, Sanguinary Guard similarly setup but with a smaller squad, or Terminators.

 

Thoughts?

[Just4uCupCake]

I ally A knight Crusader with a Gatling blaster, Thermal cannon, and skyspear ML. Large str 9 ap 1 blast templates make termies soil their armor and marines dont take to kindly to 15 str 6 ap 3 shots.

[Charlo]

SG and DC for sure. Be careful against Grav though :(

 

Our fast vindicators are great for getting a leg up on the enemy with a bigger threat range than thier.

 

LasPlas Razors work in a similar Wat bringing lots of AP2 on a fast platform. Bring them in numbers.

 

If I think of more I'll add them :)

[Raverbasher]

Thanks for the suggestion! Already got a Vindicator lined-up, plus 2 Stormravens with Twin-Linked Plasma Cannons.  

 

A Knight Crusader would be awesome, but I don't have one and don't have a decent proxy for one.  Really like the idea of LazPlas Razors.

 

@Charlo: Out of DE and SG which one would you choose?  I like DE cos of all their extra bonuses (Rage, FNP etc.) and numbers, but SG seems nice with their 2+ save. I guess if they have Grav saves don't mean anything though.

[Charlo]

DC for me, SG are almost overkill and the Grav is just nasty

But bring some power weapons/ fists!

[Xenith]

2 Stormravens with Twin-Linked Plasma Cannons.  

 

Nooo! Plasma cannons are possibly the worst option for them, as you cant shoot other fliers or snap fire them, and they probably do less damage than assault cannons.,

[Just4uCupCake]

2 Stormravens with Twin-Linked Plasma Cannons.

Nooo! Plasma cannons are possibly the worst option for them, as you cant shoot other fliers or snap fire them, and they probably do less damage than assault cannons.,

I agree with xenith plasma cannons for me anyways have always resulted in terrible ends. ACs or LCs are your best bet in my honest opinion.

sorry i went off topic and suggested something not in the BA codex lol.

are you wanting to know about forgeworld units? I have quite the list of awesome schenanigans units for FW which work well with BAs

[Indefragable]

Other than Grav guns (on bikes, in tactical units etc.) what's the best way for taking on other Space Marines and Terminators with Blood Angels?

 

I'm torn between a 10 strong Death Company toting 5 Infernus Pistols, Sanguinary Guard similarly setup but with a smaller squad, or Terminators.

 

Thoughts?

Short answer: Dante.

 

Longer answer(s):

 

Assault:

"Fragioso": a Furioso Dreadnought with Frag Cannon and Heavy Flamer. Templates to put hurt on the MEQs that will let you charge as well. The real trick is that with AV13, their krak grenades are useless unless they have a PowerFist or Melta bomb. And they won't be able to flee so you can pin them in time for another unit with more attacks to polish them off.

 

Death Company are good against pretty much anything. Against Terminators, more bodies is probably best as each extra DC body can add 5 more S5 attacks and the best way to kill TEQ is volume of dice rolls. Power Axes waste Initiative bonus from Baal Strike Force and really you want to be going first so that their Lightning Claw guys can't carve through you at the same time.

 

Against MEQ a single Power Sword (again, best choice due to striking at Initiative) or two usually is plenty and the volume of attacks takes care of the rest.

 

As so many have said, you really can't go wrong with DC.

 

Now Sanguinary Guard are basically built for taking out MEQ, with AP3 and 2+ Stock. Ways take a Chapter Banner so that your guys are getting 4x Attacks each on the Charge. A unit of 5 SG can this easily carve through other SM units twice their size. The Angelus bolters are just free wounds. Against TEQ, it gets trickier. Unless it's a LC Term unit, I would be weary since Terms have so much S8 AP2 in melee. You could go with powerfists and Encarmine Axes, but then you are striking at the same time and they have invulnerable saves while you do not. As with most BA units, you're best defense is a good offense so you want to lessen the number of attacks they can hit you back with. Honestly, I would say plasma pistols on SG are probably not bad against TEQ since they are 5pts cheaper than on any other unit and you can thin the heard before a charge. Always a chance you could kite a TH/SS unit.

 

Lightning Claw Terminators are also great against MEQ, especially going first with BSF. Terminator-on-Terminator combat is a wash, since S9 is no different than S8 in that battle and you are all striking at the same time. Personally, I lean away since they are not very mobile after landing and I skew towards jump pack units as a matter of taste.

 

Tactical Marines: pound-for-pound BA Tacs can be better in melee vs their brethren from other chapters. S5 on the charge > S4 from Bolters. But equipping Tacs for melee gets pricey and why aren't you spending those points on more Death Company/etc...?

 

 

Shooting:

Sternguard with Vengeance rounds. Plasma or Grav just make them that much better.

 

Vindicator = awesome, if for no other reason that it will draw so much low-AP dakka away from your other units.

 

Las/plas Razorbacks work wonders: being fast, you can safely stay at the periphery of the plasma gun's range while staying out of range of most of their weapons (realistically they will have a Melta or Grav and very unlikely to have a Lascannon or plasma cannon. Missile launcher could be trouble but in my meta those are really rare for some reason).

 

Cheap min/max Assault squads can't really go wrong: 5 man squad with 2x Melta, Plasma, or flamers and a combi-weapon or 2x pistols on the Sarge. Take the Flesh Tearers Strike Force and drop 6 drop pods worth of them right on top of your opponent. For the troll factor it will piss him off to have to cut through a forest of drop pods on his way out of his own deployment zone. Alternatively, use with Dante's WL trait to DS them within rapid-fire/pistol range (6x plasma shots of gunslinger). This can be useful to counter his own DS/Drop Podding.

[Raverbasher]

Thanks for all the tips! I don't have any forgeworld miniatures, or that many assault squads (although flesh tearer trolling sounded awesome) so looks like it's definitely DC with a couple of power swords.

 

I'm going to be facing Dark Angels allied with Imperial Guard, so there's definitely going to be 3x Leman Russ and a couple of dreadnaughts. So for fast attack I'm taking at least one bike squad with grav guns. For the second slot I'm thinking meltacide. Then for the last I'm torn between a second bike squad or the Razorback. I don't think a Razorback will last long against a squad of Leman Russ battle tanks though. If I got a second bike squad at least they'd be a chance to Overwatch charging Deathwing right?

[Indefragable]

Thanks for all the tips! I don't have any forgeworld miniatures, or that many assault squads (although flesh tearer trolling sounded awesome) so looks like it's definitely DC with a couple of power swords.

 

I'm going to be facing Dark Angels allied with Imperial Guard, so there's definitely going to be 3x Leman Russ and a couple of dreadnaughts. So for fast attack I'm taking at least one bike squad with grav guns. For the second slot I'm thinking meltacide. Then for the last I'm torn between a second bike squad or the Razorback. I don't think a Razorback will last long against a squad of Leman Russ battle tanks though. If I got a second bike squad at least they'd be a chance to Overwatch charging Deathwing right?

I am not a bike guy so I will let others comment on that.

 

However, against 3x Leman Russes + Drop Pods I would consider 3x Meltacide Drop Pods...each pod can then stand a chance of taking out a tank each, but if not you should get 2 of them, or at least 1 at the worst. It'll also make him have to dedicate more units to killing those Assault Marines, thus drawing fire from the rest of your army. Again, a single Meltacide pod is a nuisance that can be roasted away but 3x units toting Melta in his rear is something he has to consider. Against Dark Angels and Tank-Heavy IG, there is really nothing Melta shots can be wasted on. Meltacide is bargain-basement price too, so if you take out 150pts worth of enemy with one, that's a deal plus anything else they do is gravy.

 

What do you plan on taking as Troops? I ask since you can take a Razorback as a Dedicated Transport for those and save Fast Attack Slots.

 

Sternguard, though pricey, are your best source of Grav besides the bikes. A Sternguard squad can take 2x Grav guns and 3x Combi-Gravs in a 5 man squad. Put them in a Drop Pod to get them on target quick or give them the Razorback to ferry around.

 

As for Overwatch against charging Deathwing...you're doing it wrong. I, personally, keep the ABC's of Sanguinius in mind: Always Be Chargin'. So many of our bonuses come from being the Charger, rather than the Chargee.

[Jønke]

ABC of Sanguinius..... priceless :D

[Cronhour]

Bp cc weapon shots are cheap effective roadblocks. Going first with the charge I've had 5 scouts beat out 5 Marines several times. Striking first wounding on 3's is sweet.

 

As for the 3 russes in going to guess its a squadron. If so two melts pods on turn one have a good chance of wiping them with 8 melta shots at armor 10 I'd expect to get an explodes or two. Then you can take a flame pod for guardsman, two flamers and two hands flamers are stupidly cheap and wreck low t infantry.

[Raverbasher]

 

Thanks for all the tips! I don't have any forgeworld miniatures, or that many assault squads (although flesh tearer trolling sounded awesome) so looks like it's definitely DC with a couple of power swords.

I'm going to be facing Dark Angels allied with Imperial Guard, so there's definitely going to be 3x Leman Russ and a couple of dreadnaughts. So for fast attack I'm taking at least one bike squad with grav guns. For the second slot I'm thinking meltacide. Then for the last I'm torn between a second bike squad or the Razorback. I don't think a Razorback will last long against a squad of Leman Russ battle tanks though. If I got a second bike squad at least they'd be a chance to Overwatch charging Deathwing right?

I am not a bike guy so I will let others comment on that.

However, against 3x Leman Russes + Drop Pods I would consider 3x Meltacide Drop Pods...each pod can then stand a chance of taking out a tank each, but if not you should get 2 of them, or at least 1 at the worst. It'll also make him have to dedicate more units to killing those Assault Marines, thus drawing fire from the rest of your army. Again, a single Meltacide pod is a nuisance that can be roasted away but 3x units toting Melta in his rear is something he has to consider. Against Dark Angels and Tank-Heavy IG, there is really nothing Melta shots can be wasted on. Meltacide is bargain-basement price too, so if you take out 150pts worth of enemy with one, that's a deal plus anything else they do is gravy.

What do you plan on taking as Troops? I ask since you can take a Razorback as a Dedicated Transport for those and save Fast Attack Slots.

Sternguard, though pricey, are your best source of Grav besides the bikes. A Sternguard squad can take 2x Grav guns and 3x Combi-Gravs in a 5 man squad. Put them in a Drop Pod to get them on target quick or give them the Razorback to ferry around.

As for Overwatch against charging Deathwing...you're doing it wrong. I, personally, keep the ABC's of Sanguinius in mind: Always Be Chargin'. So many of our bonuses come from being the Charger, rather than the Chargee.

Awesome tips!

 

Trouble with the ABC is that I'm pretty sure Deathwing can drop pod and charge turn 1, so something is definitely going to get charged. My guess would be the Vindicator unless other units pose a bigger threat.

 

Definitely like the idea of 3 x meltacide. I think only 2 units would be able to come down turn one if I gave them all assault pods (half the amount come down turn one, rounding up). The third one would have to be rolled for turn 2 and after. I think the advantage with bikes and grav guns is that they are relentless and fast, so can always salvo. I'm not an expert on bikes either though :)

 

So far troop choices are scout squads to sit on objectives at the back, and a full tac squad with plasma weapons and a rhino. DC and possibly a dreadnought would go in the Stormravens. I quite like the idea of freeing up some space for Sternguard in a Razorback so will have a play around with the list again.

[LutherMax]

You'll hear this time and time again, but with good reason – be wary of using the Stormraven to transport expensive choppy units, for two reasons: 1) You're looking at a turn 3 assault at the earliest. 2) The Raven will be a primary target and I've lost both the Raven and embarked DC twice out of three times to Crash & Burn. It is nasty, believe me.

 

Your DC are probably better off with jump packs starting in cover on the board. The Raven is good as a gunboat and for anti-air.

[Raverbasher]

You'll hear this time and time again, but with good reason – be wary of using the Stormraven to transport expensive choppy units, for two reasons: 1) You're looking at a turn 3 assault at the earliest. 2) The Raven will be a primary target and I've lost both the Raven and embarked DC twice out of three times to Crash & Burn. It is nasty, believe me.

Your DC are probably better off with jump packs starting in cover on the board. The Raven is good as a gunboat and for anti-air.

Yeah, I've seen this written down a lot, and I realise it's a big risk. However, I'm definitely going to be up against 3 Leman Russ, probably a Razorback and Whirlwind (which ignores cover saves), as well as a couple of Dreadnaughts and Azreal + Deathwing, so if the DC start on the board they will be massively focused by fire and/or charged by Deathwing, especially if I don't get first go or seize the initiative. My opponent definitely understands the danger of DC, so if the DC start on the board, they're toast Which means they need to start from reserve. Unfortunately, the only way they can do that and assault relatively safely is Stormraven.

Looking on the plus side, I have maybe one or two turns to identify his anti-air and take it out. Hopefully by turn 3 my opponent will also have played his hand, so the DC can act to plug up any holes If his anti-air is still up, Skies of Fury is also an option (although they wouldn't be able to charge) .

[Charlo]

Deathwing can't come in until turn 2 earliest and even then they can't assault so you should be safe in that regard.

 

You could always pod the DC? Use cover well and give them bolters for the initial turn then start murderising in his deployment zone!

[BadDice0809]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but the good ol' Fragisio is, at least in my experience, fairly effective at wasting Termies. They arrive all bunched up ready for the big ol frag template. With so many wound rolls you can get some rends. Drop pod to place it so the storm shields aren't in front... even killing a few then charging them isnt a bad plan, as they hit last on 4s and only glance on 5s.

 

Against Tacts the same pros apply. And combat is even MORE viable (fewer power fists nowadays, just watch out for melta bomb sarges).

[Raverbasher]

Deathwing can't come in until turn 2 earliest and even then they can't assault so you should be safe in that regard.

 

You could always pod the DC? Use cover well and give them bolters for the initial turn then start murderising in his deployment zone!

 

BattleScribe shows that Deathwing Termies have the Deathwing Assault special rule. It states in the footnotes with that rule the player chooses if the Deathwing units come in turn one or two and writes it down on a piece of paper.  The termies then come in on that turn without needing to reserve role, so it looks like they can come down turn one.  It's good to know they can't assault though.

 

It also seems Azrael doesn't have that special rule as he's not in termie armour, so if he's in the termie squad then they can't DS turn one.

 

If I was gonna pod the DC I think I'd rather take jump packs and Dante and have them DS in turn 2.  If I do give them Infernus pistols they could probably mess up a dreadnaught.  Something else to think about I suppose.

[jagunio]

 

BattleScribe shows that Deathwing Termies have the Deathwing Assault special rule. It states in the footnotes with that rule the player chooses if the Deathwing units come in turn one or two and writes it down on a piece of paper. 

 

That was correct in 6th edition codex, now it's not.

[Raverbasher]

BattleScribe shows that Deathwing Termies have the Deathwing Assault special rule. It states in the footnotes with that rule the player chooses if the Deathwing units come in turn one or two and writes it down on a piece of paper.

That was correct in 6th edition codex, now it's not.

Damn, looks like the Dark Angels have been gutted. Makes me even happier to be BA

[Indefragable]

 

 

Deathwing can't come in until turn 2 earliest and even then they can't assault so you should be safe in that regard.

 

You could always pod the DC? Use cover well and give them bolters for the initial turn then start murderising in his deployment zone!

If I was gonna pod the DC I think I'd rather take jump packs and Dante and have them DS in turn 2. If I do give them Infernus pistols they could probably mess up a dreadnaught. Something else to think about I suppose.

That unit could win you the game right there. Dante's WL trait lets' you DS within 6" of wherever you want (aka Inferno pistol range). You won't get the Melta USR, but against infantry it doesn't matter. It will suck getting charged by the Deathwing or whatever but you will be going first, PLUS with Dante you have a 5/6 change of disengaging, Inferno-ing, and then Charging in with bonuses on your turn. Dante alone is absolute carnage to Deathwing (5x S6 AP2 attacks going first, not to mention any charge bonuses). My only concern is putting too much weight into a single character...you want to diversify a bit as well.

[Indefragable]

Also, in terms of your Drop Pods not all coming in Turn 1 there are 2x factors to consider:

 

1) take more Drop Pods (5?) to make sure that you can get whatever combination you want on the field Turn 1

2) DP in reserve is actually a useful asset. Especially going against other SM or DS-heavy forces, having a counter-DS unit in your back pocket can work wonders. Wherever that Deathwing comes in you drop nearby and unleash hell on them.

[Raverbasher]

Deathwing can't come in until turn 2 earliest and even then they can't assault so you should be safe in that regard.

You could always pod the DC? Use cover well and give them bolters for the initial turn then start murderising in his deployment zone!

If I was gonna pod the DC I think I'd rather take jump packs and Dante and have them DS in turn 2. If I do give them Infernus pistols they could probably mess up a dreadnaught. Something else to think about I suppose.

That unit could win you the game right there. Dante's WL trait lets' you DS within 6" of wherever you want (aka Inferno pistol range). You won't get the Melta USR, but against infantry it doesn't matter. It will suck getting charged by the Deathwing or whatever but you will be going first, PLUS with Dante you have a 5/6 change of disengaging, Inferno-ing, and then Charging in with bonuses on your turn. Dante alone is absolute carnage to Deathwing (5x S6 AP2 attacks going first, not to mention any charge bonuses). My only concern is putting too much weight into a single character...you want to diversify a bit as well.

Also, in terms of your Drop Pods not all coming in Turn 1 there are 2x factors to consider:

1) take more Drop Pods (5?) to make sure that you can get whatever combination you want on the field Turn 1

2) DP in reserve is actually a useful asset. Especially going against other SM or DS-heavy forces, having a counter-DS unit in your back pocket can work wonders. Wherever that Deathwing comes in you drop nearby and unleash hell on them.

Yeah, I'm currently considering Dante with the DC and a Librarian, getting a Fragioso in a DP to get the assault pods to 3, then giving the third meltacide unit jump packs and have them hopefully come in turn 2 in response to whatever plays my opponent has. DC and meltacide coming in turn 2 could be devastating, and I agree that Hit and Run could play a big counter-initiation role if the DC do get charged. I realise there's loads of points tied up in the DC unit, but if he's shooting the DC then he's ignoring the Stormravens, Dreadnaughts and jump packed meltacides

Question is, do I want to go totally over the top and stick a Lemartes in there too with Zealot ? Maybe a Sanguinary Priest would be better, at least it'd pass on FNP to Dante and the extra WS would be nice.

[Charlo]

If anything I'd grab Astorath instead of Lemartes, more AP 2 and the reroll to hit/wound for the DC will be crazy.

[sebs_evo7]

with the DC in pods you could make a couple of 5 man squads, tailor them with some having bolters and inferno pistols to shoot things then pod other squad's in to dangerous positions that are equipped with power weps or if in front of termies with TH, even if they charge you, you still get heaps of attacks if you equip a couple of guys with cc weps

my current tactic against other marine players is to drop tac squads in as a gun line or as a distraction so they can cover everything coming up the board (rhinos, land raider and vindicator), a few death company on jps ride along side the tanks so they get revenge/block any meltacide squads, - any feedback from vets is appreciated though