Morticon Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Hey guys....so, its the South African Nationals soon. And, for the first time in years and years, I may be letting my ego get the better of me and instead of going with my beloved BA to prove a point about BA and struggle my way through to the top tables, I really just want to unashamedly smash face. I also hate Eldar. I think the new DA dex is incredible. Absolutely incredible in terms of power and and versatility. I've been playing a double-demi list that is just oodles of fun, and I wanted to share it here and maybe share some batreps when I'm done. I'm about 65% sold on DA for the tourney, but still have that niggle to take the BA (for obvious reasons). This is what I've been running with incredible success: Captain - Mace of Absolution, Auspex Chaplain - Auspex, Jump Pack Dreadnought - Heavy Flamer, MM Drop Pod 5x TAC - Cmbi-MG, MG Drop Pod 5x TAC - Cmbi-GG, GG Drop Pod 5x TAC - Cmbi-MG, MG Razorback - las/plas 5x TAC - Cmbi-GG, MG Razorback - TLAC 5x TAC - MG Razorback - TLAC 5x TAC - Flamer Razorback - las/plas 5x SCT - 5sniper Rifles 5x ASM - Flamer, flamer Drop Pod 5x ASM - Flamer, Veteran, Power Axe, Jump Packs 5x DEV - 2Grav Cannon, 1MM, 1 Cherub Drop Pod 5x DEV - 2MM, 1Grav Cannon Razorback - TLHB Beyond the power of this list, I've REALLY just been enjoying the versatility, the amount of different types of units and the general tactics the list facilitates. (So much so that it actually breaks my heart BA dont have something similar). So, that being said, my BA would be heavily FW influenced, with 2 Sicarans and a Scorpios WW if i did take it, and it still cant really deal with the triple WK or 30+ scatter bike lists I'm expecting- not to mention the evil that is the Khorne doggie lists and other such disgustingness. SO......question I guess from my side is (since i'm really happy with the army structure), how would you tweak/shift around the wargear? I have 100 points to play with in the tactical marine wargear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caldria Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Awesome man.Looks cool - have you perhaps thought about giving both dev squads 2 grav cannons and putting them in rhinos and have them move up (keeping them in the rhinos for as long as possible) firing the 2 grav cannons from the top hatch? You do lose a drop pod though which brings your first turn pods down to 2 (but you could probably sneak in a 5th one again for that second assault squad but not deploy them in it)Also, the grav tac squad in the pod could probably switch the grav gun out for a grav cannon for the extra shots.Looking forward to seeing some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted August 27, 2015 Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 Awesome man. Looks cool - have you perhaps thought about giving both dev squads 2 grav cannons and putting them in rhinos and have them move up (keeping them in the rhinos for as long as possible) firing the 2 grav cannons from the top hatch? You do lose a drop pod though which brings your first turn pods down to 2 (but you could probably sneak in a 5th one again for that second assault squad but not deploy them in it) Also, the grav tac squad in the pod could probably switch the grav gun out for a grav cannon for the extra shots. Looking forward to seeing some more. I really like the rhino idea (even though if it moves they're firing 12" on account of salvo). But, I like how they can move into position- so I may wind up doing that! The probs with the cannons are that theyre 35 points each :/ It means the only way to fit one into the dev would be to drop a heavy razorback. So, probs a TLAC. I think it could be a good investment (tactically) though. I would prefer three pods in first turn, so I wont be losing that. And I wouldnt be able to find another 35 (20) points to upgrade the tac grav though :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Don't we all hate Eldar? Anyway. I do enjoy the Lion's Blade. However, it is mostly because of the really solid auxiliary detachments like RWSS. Without them and focusing purely on the core, I can not help but wonder if SM wouldn't do it better due to Doctrines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caldria Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I believe the reason he's gone with DA is due to the far cheaper auxiliary though. 1500 pts is really tricky to fit in a battle company in any case - so the cheaper aux is a big help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Point taken. Although you could exchange the Dread for Scouts and get the SM one. Still, I am curious to see how this goes. Some changes I would make is to exchange all the GG and CGG for P and CP. They are not restricted by movement and get the job done just as well in most cases. If I would take Grav on PA models, it would be the Grav Cannon, but that might be a bit of a stretch given the point constraint. I would also give the Dread the Rifleman setup and deploy him. Keep his dedicated pod empty and have it drop on some lone objective instead. That way you have more dakka on the board T1 and still get your mileage from an OS pod. On the Devs, I would go pure. 3 MM and 3 GC. I find this far more practical than having mixed loadout. That would be it for now ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 Immer - i've found that the DA full BS overwatch is phenomenal. I like the overall versatility of the SM stuff, but find the DA ability sits perfectly for my meta. There's a LOT of strong counter attack, and all out attack armies this side.My other option would be to lose the dread and scouts and pick up 3 attack bikes- but....i'm mainly playing the dread for the Khorne dog lists that will be there. That AV12 will be very good - along with the S10 hits. The heavy flamer also helps me with Nigel's orky bikers. I think its more of a local meta choice than an overall choice in a vacuum. Re: the mixed load out. I'm nervous. I really like the versatility of the mixed load out. But, that being said, i think there is something to say about 3 GCs in one unit. So...may even try that with the pod squad. 3 GCs in the one, and then 2MM/1GC in the other vehicle. Will defs require a playtest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I see. If your meta supports your choices, then you have my support as well ;) As for the mixed load-out, try only 2 GC in a Rhino. A Rhino allows only 2 models to fire, which is perfect for 2 GC. While the Pod unit can have more if you so desire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caldria Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I've used 3 GCs with an 8 man dev unit in a pod before - joined by company master with the mace of redemption and arti armour and shroud of heroes. It was against a khorne daemonkin list with lots of bikes and dogs. So this might've been a bit one sided. But even with the grav wounding on 6's most of the time - with the grav amp rerolls, the BS 4 overwatch was fantastic. They dropped down, wiped out a scoring cultist unit, then continued to hamper the opponents rear line - and also wiped out the mandatory possessed unit through overwatch alone. The company master also tanked with his 2+4++ and 5+ FnP, and was actually pretty decent in combat (granted, the mace was AP1 against the bikes and chaos lord). This is an awesome unit but would need support with the other pods ofc.But I agree, if you're planning on facing a lot of khorne hounds and bikes/assault units then the BS4 overwatch is fantastic for that purpose and would probably win out over the doctrines in the long run. The doctrines versatility only really comes into play if you're playing quite varied lists and where you have options to outshoot the opponent through all your potential rerolls. It's also less situational than the DA overwatch ability.And, I'll add another thumbs up for the 2 GC devs in a rhino Maybe try them in some practice games to see if it fits your style - as I feel thats a completely "YMMV" type change to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 Hey guys.Just back from a test game with Nigel (my tournament nemesis as the BA cadre will be aware) and his dreaded orks. His new orky biker list is by far the scariest thing he's ever produced and i think its going to be a joke the degree to which he stomps the majority of his opponents. That being said, we did a test game today. Relic mission. I scouted my scouts onto the relic for first turn, and infiltrated my jumpers and warlord up (thanks to the trait). He seized <_< Oddly enough, he didnt get first blood, as he chose to charge the scouts rather than shoot them up, and boosted other units instead of shooting (for their 2++ jink in my turn on account of night fight). DA overwatch meant i thinned out the charging unit, and he duffed some of his attacks, meaning i only lost a scout - and i was able to break away and leave him in the open. In turn 1 of mine, i dropped down and laid waste to what I could of the orky forces. I did a fair amount of damage and got first blood and a 2 more biker deaths- but that was it.. In his turn his warlord and a biker squad in support charged my dread that had come down in a pod, his split off biker boss with lucky stick charged another unit, and 2 other units charged my dev squad with the captain (who had been joined by the chappy- expecting the charge). I got SUPER lucky again, and got 4 of 4 hits on dread and 4 of 4 wounds. This was AFTER I had taken 2 wounds on the warlord as he charged in (DA are just silly that way!) I wiped out the squad thanks to S10. Exactly what i needed. The captain got into a challenge with another warboss (to be fair he didnt know about the mace !! And with zealot I got some good shots off- 2 wounds only though, so with his 5 attacks i was expecting the Cap to die. He only got 1 wound against him though (2 hits of 5 and 1 wound) and passed his iron halo save. Wiped out most of the other squad, but htey held. In turn 2 my other pods didnt come down, but, my army laid waste to his. I charged in with the free dread, and and cleaned up in combat. End of turn two he had 1 retreating biker. Lionsblade double demi is sick, sick OP. *NOMMY* also, FWIW, i really, really enjoyed the devs in the Rhino, and for this particular army i quite liked the 2 gravs in each, rather than 3 in one.I have maybe 2 more playtests before nationals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caldria Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Aw yus! Grats on the win :DLooking forward to seeing more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanSturrock Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 This is all very cool, and highly encouraging. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solrac Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 It's awesome to hear it's working out albeit with some luck in your favour! With a normal dread I personally like the Twin-linked Heavy Flamer/Heavy Flamer combo over the MM. BS4 doesn't matter and one of your templates gets to re-roll it's wounds. Makes for nasty overwatch and killing units inside open topped vehicles. I love the Lions Blade for it's versatility. We do have some cheap effective options over the Gladius. Dreadnoughts are my new favourite unit with their buff to their attacks. I took just a Demi Company a few weeks ago against a Daemons list. I put in a unit of 3 Dreads with twin-linked autocannons and they were the MVP of my game. I thought they wouldn't do much just walking around but with the summoning that was going on in my table half they had a field day. They ended up killing a Great Unclean one in close combat, gunned down the Warlord Lord of Change, killed a unit of 17 Pink Horrors and then saved my Warlord from a Soul Grinder by pounding it into the ground. I did lose one of the dreads after killing the Lord of Change but the other 2 were more than enough to kill everything else on that list. The Great Unclean one got pummelled hard taking 3 HoW hits then 15 S10 Powerfists to the face. I'm glad you had a good result against the Orks. That big Orky bike unit can be tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 I'm REALLY tempted by the double heavy flamer :/ Like really. Will be so good vs. nige. But, i almost always tend to err on the side of versatility. I like the AP shots coming down from the pod in first turn too. For interest sake, this is what he played: Zhadsnark the Rippa. Boss -bike, klaw, lucky stick Boss - bike, klaw Bik Mek - bike, killsaw, force field Bik Mek - bike, killsaw, force field Pain Boy - bike, orderly Pain Boy - bike, orderly 3x Bikes - Klaw nob 3x Bikes - Klaw nob 3x Bikes - Klaw nob 3x Bikes - Klaw nob 3x Bikes - Klaw nob 3x Bikes - Klaw nob 3x Bikes - Choppa nob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillyfish Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Sounds impressive and like you are having a lot of fun. I would take a list you are enjoying using this time (because why not?) and it sounds like it is giving you some answers against difficult opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 4, 2015 Author Share Posted September 4, 2015 Sounds impressive and like you are having a lot of fun. I would take a list you are enjoying using this time (because why not?) and it sounds like it is giving you some answers against difficult opponents. Gilly - i'm LOVING it. The fact that it has loads of tacticals, dev squads, assault squads and a dread is just so awesome for me. And even though its not BA rules, I'm obviously using my successor heraldry/colours, so it's the first time in 9 years that i'll be taking 3 helmet colours into a tournament battle (Red - Tac, Yellow - Assault, Blue- Dev) - and ya, while I really did wish it was BA, its closest to my style and enjoyment. Will keep you all posted with tomorrow's game. I'm actually playing against another double demi Lionsblade list. (True DA colours/heraldry!!) So, you guys can root for him :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solrac Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Hope for the furious charge warlord trait and you can have a bit of BA theme ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 5, 2015 Author Share Posted September 5, 2015 One more test run in. REALLY liking the double grav pillbox rhino, so am likely to take it in. Played against IG/Scions today. Interesting list, not optimised. Yarrick, Vet squad in chimera Vet squad in chimera Devil Dog Scions formation with 4 Valkyrie's and 4x10 scions with bling. Game was Emperors Will. I won first set up, but I gave the opponent first turn on account of how little first turn firepower he had. The game was an odd series of hits and misses - lots of hull points and wounds here and there, but no full units. However, that's when things took a turn for the worse. In the next two turns, i completely vaped his army. By end turn 4, he had one 4man squad and 2 flyers left - one immobed. The DA had lost 2 units. Dev squad and my captain. That was it. Complete board domination had happened too. Score in the end was 1-8 to DA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 Played a test run vs. a friend who asked me not to play the double demi. (because he wanted a chance). I played almost everything identically, minus three units (1x tac, 1x dev, 1x assault) - using a CAD and a single demi. It didnt work out quiiiite as well (obviuosly). Caldria put it best (in pm) when he said that the "teeth" of this list comes from the free stuff- because there's nothing particularly scary or tournament worthy in of itself. Played this: Captain - Mace of Absolution, Auspex Chaplain - Auspex, Jump Pack Dreadnought - Heavy Flamer, MM Drop Pod 5x TAC - Cmbi-MG, MG Drop Pod 5x TAC - Cmbi-GG, GG Drop Pod 5x TAC - Cmbi-MG, MG Razorback - las/plas 5x TAC - Cmbi-GG, MG Razorback - las/plas 5x TAC - MG Razorback - TLAC 5x SCT - 5sniper Rifles 5x ASM - Flamer, Veteran, Power Axe, Jump Packs 5x DEV - 1MM, 2Grav Cannon Rhino Kept to the 1500pnt limit. Game was relic, vanguard. Good fun. He got first blood (silly on my part -i should have easily gotten it). I had the objective right until the 5th turn, when i decided to go to ground in a ruin with the 3 devs holding it- i took 3 lascannons, saved 2 of them, and the guy holding the relic pegged. With no rear support i wasnt able to pick it up next turn on account of going to ground. My captain, who had the last chance to get to it, needed a 5 for DT and then maybe a run for next turn, rolled 1,2 for DT and for 1 for run. So, no luck there. Game ended in turn 6 with massive casualties both sides. I had line breaker and warlord, he had warlord and FB. Was a very cool game. Last test run before nats this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 Off to nats tomorrow morning!! Will keep you all posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caldria Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Good Luck man!Can't wait to see results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkRaven89 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 The GC in a rhino sounds fun and crazy. Going to try this at an up coming event. Still break a leg at Nationals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 12, 2015 Author Share Posted September 12, 2015 Guys.... You wont believe the games today...man. 3 of 6 played. Sadly, i'm not doing NEARLY as well as I had hoped, or my peers had expected. I've been thumping lists, really dominating, but, it just hasnt translated to wins on account of some incredibly pivotal moments! Will tell you all about it soon. Sitting on a very unimpressive 1-1-1 at the moment. LOTS of daemons about, 1 other lionsblade, 2 eldar, 1 tau/skyhammer combo, 3 knight combo...some fun stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Good luck with day 2 Mort ! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 Guys, so so so bleak :( Had a blinder, blinder of a 2nd day. Stomped all over the place. Got to the top table in game 6, and if i won it, could take the tournament. I had an incredible first turn, and then it all went to pot. If it ended in turn 5, i would have won, too. However...here's the clincher- only when we were packed up, only when it had been decided, did I realise that my opponent made an illegal move- and charged out of a destroyed rhino - with possessed that killed my dreadnought. I'm so bleak because it would have been fundamentally, and monumentally game changing :/ bleh. batreps soon. Final tally - 3wins, 2losses, 1 draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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