Lions Blade - double demi - 1500 (road to Nationals)

[Morticon]

Great reports, especially against those knights. Too many people around here would have seen the knights, thrown a small hissie about OP units or somesuch, and then played poorly because they'd already given up.

 

Instead, you used numbers and creative tactics to kick butt and take names. Congrats.

Thanks bud! Ya, DA are great for it - especially with Melta in their tacs on account of the full BS OW. Really helps out in dealing with those charges.  Stubborn is really the only drawback.  I actualy found it far, far more of a hindrance than anything else 

[Morticon]

One more game coming up soon!!! 

 

 

The BA are facing down this:

 

Slaughter Cult** (kinda)

1x Blinged Khorne Jugger Lord

1x 12 or so Hounds

 

8x Possessed in Rhino

8x Letters

8x Letters

8x Cultists

8x Cultists

 

3x Maulers

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/2015%20-%2040k%20Nationals/IMG_7122_zpsg6kij2ye.jpg



Info coming soooon  ~ 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/2015%20-%2040k%20Nationals/IMG_7123_zpskckr4vcp.jpg

[Prot]

So at this point I have to ask you.... since you are playing Blood Angels you could literally 'proxy' any marine chapter with them. Why did you decide to do Lion's Blade over the Gladius?

 

What drew you to this build when you could have been... Ultra, White Scars, etc? I'm just curious.

[Morticon]

So at this point I have to ask you.... since you are playing Blood Angels you could literally 'proxy' any marine chapter with them. Why did you decide to do Lion's Blade over the Gladius?

 

What drew you to this build when you could have been... Ultra, White Scars, etc? I'm just curious.

 

Good question, Prot.  Two reasons, and it was about 70/30 split.  

 

70% was a tactical one.

The Lions Blade has two monster benefits over Gladius.

The first is that it's auxiliary tax is only 55 points (60 in my list).  The minimum tax in a Gladius is 165 and 3 easy kill points.  Those 105 points are REALLY needed at 1500 when points add up REALLY quickly in order to equip each unit to being worth its while.  The other benefit is the full BS overwatch.  We have a very strong fighty and shooty/counter meta here.  The top lists all have very good charging elements - that skill was worth its weight in gold.  Arguably better than the chapter tactics of the any other marine dex- especially not when you need to add in more characters to buff those abilities up.  I honestly believe DA are solid, solid contenders in terms of power.

 

The other 30% was a personal one - DA is the only other marine dex I've owned and the only other chapter i've seriously considered playing.  BA shared a dex back in the day, and their whole "Same- Same but Divergent" vibe appealed to the BA player in me - as did the "Angels of Death"  type thing.  It was a list representative of the BA fighting style in the old fluff, rather than what their subsequent rules ushered their image towards.  

 

 

[Prot]

I remember those days... I came across my 'Angels of Death' codex a few weeks ago cleaning up. ;)

 

As far as the tax it was also a consideration of mine. But another notable difference is the forced Demi-Co requirement of assault squads... I'd guess sitting somewhere around 100pts a piece? Whereas the Glad-Demi is capable of swapping those out for Attack bikes... I usually take one MM bike.

 

The White Scars definitely hold the 'power' spot in the codex, but I still enjoy 3 turns of Tactical Doctrines. The weird thing is that what I consider true unit advantages in the Astartes codex are units that are VERY hard to use in the Battle co, or even the Demi Co. Stuff like: Centurion (Devs), or Thunderfire Cannons or Stormtalons just as example. All are very difficult to get into the mix because of complications.

 

For a tax I always use the Anti-Air Defense Force at 1850. This 'tax' is 220 points I believe and can shut down most air lists, and even gets the Crimson Hunter formation jinking like crazy.

 

The Lion's Blade is really cool for reasons you cite, but I'm impressed with how different it feels simply because of the basic rules differences. I think taking the anti-assault angle is really interesting but I have a strong gut feeling it will be even bigger when Chaos Space Marines is finally revisited (I'm waiting on it with baited breath).

 

Loving the batreps!

[Frater Cornelius]

@ Morti - Do you really see full BS or at least improved Overwatch as such a big deal? SM shooting is nothing great to begin with, when looking at the individual squad. Also, armies like Eldar do not really want to be in your face. And those units that want to be in your face usually so not care for your Overwatch, no matter the BS.

 

Maybe I am misjudging it though. I need to pay attention to how often I need that Overwatch to hit.

[SnakeChisler]

Full BS overwatch has a really big advantage against a number of units

 

Imperial Knights / WraithKnights - they kill what they charge a free round of shooting can chip away at the wounds / hull points I noticed a number of Combi-weapons in the list, these work just as well in overwatch..  

 

Invisible Deathstars - you may well have to hit them on 6's in the normal shooting phase but that is not the case in overwatch, the invisibility rule just states that you must snap-fire which due to grim resolve happens to be at normal ballistic skill in overwatch even the Dreadnaughts have it.

 

The number one tactic for the invisible deathstar is the multicharge spreading out across the board and then eating everything.

 

Daemons are a really big combat army and Daemonkin as well chipping away at the charge range will not only reduce the number of attacks coming your way but cause failed charges

 

Anyway that's just my opinion, the Gladius is amazing at re-rolling everything tho

[Morticon]

@ Morti - Do you really see full BS or at least improved Overwatch as such a big deal? SM shooting is nothing great to begin with, when looking at the individual squad. Also, armies like Eldar do not really want to be in your face. And those units that want to be in your face usually so not care for your Overwatch, no matter the BS.

 

Maybe I am misjudging it though. I need to pay attention to how often I need that Overwatch to hit.

 

Immer - I think this boils down to two things.  The first is general meta.  If you're in an overly shooty environment, then may not be worthwhile.  I find our tourney circuit, the top players are fighty or as mentioned, shooty/counter.  There are no straight shooty - even the Eldar player from game 3 has modded his nationals list to include an element of counter assault (in his case a Wraithknight).

 

The second consideration, and its one that i think most people overlook is the weapons taken in each squad.  I think this is, quite honestly, what will set each double-demi apart - the special weapons.  I pay 100 points for Tactical squad weapons in my 1500 point list.  I make sure that every unit can do something.  A WK charging a unit with a grav gun and a combi grav means its taking 6 grav shots - thats troublesome for it.  Likewise those mauler lists.  

While I wouldnt say its a huge deal - I know that my opponents hate it. I know its saved my in most of my games, though not all.  Game 1- it worked for me, Game 2 - it didnt because we were both DA double-demi shooting! Game 3 - opponent was shooty eldar, but avoided charging in with warlocks/farseers., Game 4- Worked brilliantly - killing a knight actually.  Game 5 - worked brilliaintly killing an Eldar Wraith Knight, Game 6 - worked alright - despite enemy rolling 25 fives and sixes of 30dice for 5++ and fnp <_< 

 

I think the skill of the player will be a consideration too in terms of target acquisition and assessment - what does it shoot and at what time. If you come down in pod you have options of what to target hard, and leave the less hardcore stuff to flit about and take on later.  

[Frater Cornelius]

Most lists have some sort of melee or counter-melee unit, so it will not be wasted. However, it irks me that nothing else is really unique about their infantry, especially compared to the other Chapters. You can not believe how hard I am trying to find a purpose for Greenwing in competitive play, but i have failed so far. They give way to pure RW armies, which I neither think are fun nor that good to begin with. I am still convinced that the strength of DA lies in multi-wing, but I have not found it yet.

The game has evolved in such a manner that you can not just include units, that sit on an objective. 95% of the army needs to be active to win a game, especially against Xenos, where 110% of the army is coming after you.

[Prot]

But what is so special about.. Ultramarines? When you play the Demi-Co/Gladius you lose a lot of the uniqueness the codex offers Astartes. Now that Greenwing have access to Grav weaponry I think it's very possible at higher point limits to include some special Ravenwing units. Some of their Auxiliaries are quite nice. Black Knights might be still one of the best units in the game. Including free transports in the dual Demi makes for some cool combo's you can't do in the Codex Astartes variant.

 

When you see what a 'typical' Gladius Battle Co is like I don't know that it actually has much of anything over the Lion's Blade Battle Co. In fact, as Mort mentions, the tax is lower on a semi-useful unit.

 

The one factoring difference here is White Scars, but it's getting old, fast. Hit and Run is nasty, and very strong, but outside of that I think one day we'll see someone start smashing face with a cool combo made of the Lion's Blade Battle-Co and that will probably change some minds.

 

To be 100% honest I have played this a lot and I don't think it's as potent as everyone thought it was originally going to be, but it takes some good skill to make it work.... it's a tactician's tool imo.

[Frater Cornelius]

No, I do not think the Battle Company is all that either. Neither the SM, nor the DA one. Look, if I can beat a tournament player with a WS Battle Company with pure Hybrid Guard, pure Hybrid Wolves and pure Paladin GK, it can not be all that great. It is solid and high-end competitive, but not the be-all end-all of those books.

 

Dedicated scoring units are a thing of the past. Even the cheapest one around, Inquisitorial Henchmen with 2 Acolytes and 1 Psyker have a purpose outside mere scoring duty.

The thing about the DA guys is that they are not reliable. Unique was probably the wrong word. SM have access to easy re-rolls, which allows them to keep up with Xenos firepower and be reliable. I do not see that in the Greenwing. It lacks reliability and including 14ppm models with upgrades that do not put out equivalent hurt is a waste in my book.

 

As I said, there might be something I missed, especially in regards to dual and triple wing. But as of right now, the longer I look at the book, the more inconveniences and faults I discover. Fair enough, it took me almost a year to find a solid GK list, so I will be trying to make Green useful along with Black and possibly White. Well, make them useful outside of spamming them or using them to get free Transports.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Well, little green men sure work for Morticon in his neck of woods, so he's happy. Maybe they will work in other necks of woods, maybe they won't, but effort must be made to put it into practice. Just sitting and thinking about theory-hammer is no substitute for playing and adjusting until the army either works or you move on.

[SnakeChisler]

For 1500 you can wrack up 700 points+ of free transports all with obj-sec

 

if you pumped it up by 250 to 1850 I'd get the DS speeder formation in for even more overwatch

 

This is a competition list given the restrictions (or lack of) the prevalence of invisible deathstars, inclusion of multiple super heavies etc it's a pretty fluffy greenwing list with fearless characters & grim resolve holding the line

 

The Gladius has its moments but the poster boys in blue are not fearless and chapter tactic thing really emphasises that

 

My double Lb is gonna have 2 dreads in it ;)

[Morticon]

Havent done the post battle report yet, but the dread was absolutely stellar.  By far, by far the best unit in the game - At 100 points a dread in a pod, or damn, even a squad of 2 of them trundling about...i dunno.  I'm so amazed (and at the same time bleak because of BA <_< ) - the difference the change to attacks have made really made these guys viable again. 

 

 

Second I think was the master with that Mace.  BRILLIANT wargear.  

[Morticon]

FINAL GAME 

 

For interest sake, going into this game was really exciting.  There were 3 people on 3 Wins, 1Loss,1 Draw, and 2 people on 4wins, 1 Draw. 

 

I was playing one of the 4W, 1D and the Screamer star player (3-1-1) was playing Nigel's dirty orky bikers (4W,1D). The Eldar player I drew to was playing someone else -i'm not sure who -maybe the other Daemon player. 

 

This meant the following:  

 

If my opponent won, he'd win the tournament.

If my opponent lost, but Nigel won - Nigel would win the tournament.

If my opponent lost and Nigel lost (and then assuming Eldar guy won his)- it would mean 5 players now on 4-1-1 -> and it would go down to VP - and i was looking VERY solid thanks to coming up against the Knights in Game 4 and 5. 

 

Unfortunately, that all went to pot later on account of the DQ :/  but, thats a story for later. 

 

I was up against the nasty Daemonkin list in Emperor's Will - by far my fav game. 

For a refresher:

 

Juggerlord- with bling (including the turns into a thirster axe)

10/12 Hounds

8x Possessed 

Rhino

8x Letters

8x Letters

8x Cultists

8x Cultists

3x Mauler Fiends

For those of you not aware of what the slaughter cult/blood cult does, it gains you a blood tithe point every turn automatically.  Then, if you're unaware of the dynamic- you gain a tithe point every time a unit dies, you kill a unit or you win/lose a challenge.  You can then use those points to get stuff like rage, fearless, FC and all importantly FNP - from 5 up, you can start summoning - hounds/thirsters the works.  The nifty bonus of this detachment/formation is that it allows you to gain a lesser tithing reward in addition to the one chosen.  So, if you choose #4, you can get a pick of 1-3 too.  If you choose #5 you get a pick of 1-4.  5+ FNP on this army is really hardcore. 

 

 

I cant remember if i lost first turn, or if I gave it to him on account of the mission- I'm almost sure I lost it. He moved forward where he could.  He'd be on me by turn 2, as per usual.

The enemy made sure his Letters were off deepstriking, while his cultists formed some weak bubblewrap. 

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/2015%20-%2040k%20Nationals/IMG_7122_zpsg6kij2ye.jpg

 

I moved into position where necessary.

I got a few units out of vehicles to ensure more shooty goodness. 

I chose the devs, the dread and a melta unit to come down in pods.  


http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/2015%20-%2040k%20Nationals/IMG_7123_zpskckr4vcp.jpg
My first turn was poetic.  It went like clockwork

Starting on the left, my Devs in Rhino took out the left flanking Mauler.  
In the center, the Devs took out the other mauler. 
My MG squad took off 2 HP from the 3rd Mauler.  Now, came a small tactical blunder on my part.  (which consequently ended in a HUGE blunder).  

I choose to shoot at the rhino, because the last time i played this opponent, he had allied marines, and had a Dirge Caster on the rhino.  I just assumed and figured it was a greater threat than the mauler because of the nulling of OW.  So, dready targeted the Rhino- and BOOM! Blew it up!! Noice!!! (Only to realise following turn, there was no bloody caster on it <_< )

So, all in all - 3 units killed and last mauler down to 1HP.  Woot!

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/2015%20-%2040k%20Nationals/IMG_7124_zpsmloxuilf.jpg

I was feeling so good after this, and not at all in any stress. 

I then had a COMPLETE brain fart moment- as did my opponent.  

He starts positioning his mauler, his cultists and his possessed for a charge on the two squads, using the cultists to suck up the fire of the tacs.  Its a longish charge- 8"  - so, i'm hoping he would fail.  He's also charging across the dread, so i became fixated on how he'd allow space to charge the dread with the possessed.....not bloody well thinking that he cant actually charge the dread with the Possessed ANYWAY!!! 

We both rookied in this regard and for whatever reason, despite me thinking "yay im safe for a turn" when i blew up their rhino, it completely slipped my mind that he wasnt allowed to charge me.  

He charged with the cultists, i elected not to shoot, hoping he'd fail his 8" - he got 11".  The mauler went in too- and smashed away. 
The possessed charged the dread, and thanks to FC killed my dready.  

This was incidentally the turning point of the game.  

On the left flank, his hounds had multi assaulted some razors and units.  I was failing to make any headway through all the 5++,5+fnp.  
In my next turn, i had two pods come in, and scatter away from the objective.  Had they been on it, i would have managed to contest it - and claim no problem.  

I elected to use a grav squad to try gun the possessed - thinking they would be a huge threat.  The flamer squad, i moved to the right flank in support of the Letters that had struck down.  My chappy and squad were waiting for a charge opp.  (Again, foolishly- because i thought these guys were S3 ><; and only S4 on the charge.)

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/2015%20-%2040k%20Nationals/IMG_7125_zps3gosl3hk.jpg


The possessed made all of their saves or fnp.  

In the next turn or so, he summoned down some more dogs and kept FNP going.  
I made the error of charging the letters with my chappy squad, thinking id be okay. I duffed shooting and assault rolls, and lost the squad. 

To add insult to injury, the Captain and crew who were in combat with the cultists actually failed to win combat <_< Captain not making any hits. So, my shooting was horribly gimped for a turn. I think they actually stayed in combt for 3 combat rounds <_<

On the left flank, the hounds were chewing their way through my lines.

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/2015%20-%2040k%20Nationals/IMG_7126_zpshzowqfqp.jpg

Really not looking ideal. 

The possessed slowly moved along the right flank, chewing through units - the opponent in 2 or 3 turns made around 25 of 30 5++ or 5+Fnp rolls - which made my blood boil.  Really hate it when things are stacked that way luck wise.  I did so many wounds, but just everything was saved. 

I played out of my skin...

Blurry pic, but...what happened eventually was with 2 additional hound units in the mix, also fighting their way through, i was losing men everywhere. My dev squad at the top was out of the fight and unable to contribute really - aside from some odd shots here and there at the hounds in my ranks.

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/2015%20-%2040k%20Nationals/IMG_7127_zpsxl5mf6l3.jpg
(apologies for blurry pic- i think i was shaking!)

By turn 5 I had one last ditch effort - I had 2 units alive, on the left and was on an objective - the scouts on the right were also protected - unable to be seen and a charge was failed.  This meant that if the game ended now.....

i would win!! 

It didnt <_< 

With one more turn, the opponent would wipe out my scouts on the right, wipe out the last two razors/devs and that would be that.  

Disheartened by the incredible Khornate rolling, i conceded. 

The opponent took it - and the tournament.



It was only while packing my models away, when i packed the dready away did i realise the HUGE illegality that cost me the game. That dread could not have been charged.  It would have, in my turn, charged the Possessed, and on account of their nerfed strength, not been able to kill the dready as easily as they did.  
Likewise, the mauler (that then tore through the backlines) may have become victim to the MG shot on the charge. 

Was really, really bleak about this.  

Thing is, I know the player well, and knew it was an honest mistake - we both had brain fart moments- it was after 17 hours of gaming after all. 

Now...that wasn't the worst of it. 

We discovered the day after, after sharing the list with an inquisitive friend, that the Daemonkin list was actually illegal ><; 

For those of you in the know, the Slaughter Cult formation/detachment actually doesn't allow hounds to be taken by themselves.  They must come as a formation with bikers- a Gore Cult i think they're called.  This was a perfectly legal CAD, but had been making use of the Blood Cult (FNP etc) rules all tournament.   Understandably the opponent was absolutely gutted and incredibly apologetic to all. The day after, all his games were changed to wins, which shifted the rankings somewhat. 

Nigel (bikers) wound up with the win, after having 5wins and 1 loss, followed by the Eldar player with 4wins and 2draws...and me in 3rd position with 4wins, 1loss,1draw. 




 

[Frater Cornelius]

Not bad. At least you ranked Also, bloody Nigel and his Ork Bikers! Of all the names in all batreps ever mentioned, I always remember Nigel. You may greet him for me and tell him that I am coming for him

To come back to your list and the way you played it. Would you change anything or do anything differently?

[Jolemai]

Ah yes, Nigel (Dirtyrat) is Morticon's nemesis. Quite happy to see him win the tournament seeing how Mort has shot himself in the foot by not playing Blood Angels

Insert obligatory ranking request here. More importantly, which army will you be taking to the next tournament? The last three have been BA, BA/SM, DA.

[SnakeChisler]

Thanks for sharing the batrep

 

Even though its an Honest mistake the Daemonkin player will be looking for a suitable place to go hide his embarrassment and if your entering competitions you really need to be 100% with your Dex and rules especially with multiple sources, a salutary lesson for all really.

 

With regard to one of your earlier comments on Fearless and Stubborn having only ever played Marines with theses traits when I see my mate playing Ultra's it slams home to me how I use this in game, not having to take pinning tests on key units always staying in the fight etc...

 

With a comment on your list I've found that having the Devs in a Rhino helps and only take 2 Heavy weapons, that's not playing the Double LB thou just a general observation and I am buying the transports

[Morticon]

Ah yes, Nigel (Dirtyrat) is Morticon's nemesis. Quite happy to see him win the tournament seeing how Mort has shot himself in the foot by not playing Blood Angels

Insert obligatory ranking request here. More importantly, which army will you be taking to the next tournament? The last three have been BA, BA/SM, DA.

Next tournament is one of the Tri-Tourney circuit ones. Its Gladiator: Escalation. No holds barred (ie: unbound okay).

6 games, 3x Eternal War and 3x Maelstrom missions - 2x 1000points, 2x 1500 and 2x 2000. Each points level uses the previous level's units with no additions/amendments to the former.

I'm looking to take BA and either DA or SM.

[Morticon]

Not bad. At least you ranked Also, bloody Nigel and his Ork Bikers! Of all the names in all batreps ever mentioned, I always remember Nigel. You may greet him for me and tell him that I am coming for him

To come back to your list and the way you played it. Would you change anything or do anything differently?

I thought for our meta the design was "perfect" - was REALLY happy with the versatility of the army. I think the only tweak I would have done is to drop a MM from the Rhino Dev squad and put in a MB or two somewhere.

Tweaking aside, in the first game, I believe I lost the game on two fronts- first was my pods not coming down when I needed them. The second was a move to dedicate more units to assault rather than to stand back and shoot like DA should. It was a tough call, because they were going to die anyway.

Game 3 will haunt me forever - stupid positioning of my rhinos. Will overlap, or use to completely block- not do a pseudo blocking maneuver.

Happy with 4 and 5 which saw both opponents tabled - and I'm of the opinion that I could take the CAD version of that Daemonkin list 80% of the time.

Wish i could do it again!!! Maybe next year at Nationals ;)

[Prot]

Well Mort that is a great story and a terrible story all at the same time!

 

The way I read it though, the one thing confuses me... if given the choice between shooting a Rhino -or- a Maulerfiend, why the rhino? I play Chaos still to this day and none of my opponents will let me get within an Emperor's Custode of them with a Maulerfiend. And Dirge Casters... people still poke at me for taking Chaos Rhino's but they usually fail to understand (until it's too late) that it's simply for walls and Dirge Casters!

 

It seems every of your games felt winnable. That's a great plus and shows your tactics and list are really solid.

 

As a side note, I play against Ork Bike lists too, and they are easily one of the most underrated lists that is looked down upon by the wisdom of the internets. In all honesty though my Grey Knights go right through them like no other army I know of. (Cleansing Flame + Force is kryptonite to them it seems.) But Ork Bikes give every other list I have a real pain in the butt. In the hands of a great player it's still a force to reckon with.

 

Thanks for all your batreps, I'll definitely miss reading them and thoroughly enjoyed it. Congrats on the win.... the assaulting Rhino unit does suck though, and I honestly think that's the number one thing I see happen (erroneously) in most of my games.

[Morticon]

Well Mort that is a great story and a terrible story all at the same time!

 

The way I read it though, the one thing confuses me... if given the choice between shooting a Rhino -or- a Maulerfiend, why the rhino? I play Chaos still to this day and none of my opponents will let me get within an Emperor's Custode of them with a Maulerfiend. And Dirge Casters... people still poke at me for taking Chaos Rhino's but they usually fail to understand (until it's too late) that it's simply for walls and Dirge Casters!

 

It seems every of your games felt winnable. That's a great plus and shows your tactics and list are really solid.

 

As a side note, I play against Ork Bike lists too, and they are easily one of the most underrated lists that is looked down upon by the wisdom of the internets. In all honesty though my Grey Knights go right through them like no other army I know of. (Cleansing Flame + Force is kryptonite to them it seems.) But Ork Bikes give every other list I have a real pain in the butt. In the hands of a great player it's still a force to reckon with.

 

Thanks for all your batreps, I'll definitely miss reading them and thoroughly enjoyed it. Congrats on the win.... the assaulting Rhino unit does suck though, and I honestly think that's the number one thing I see happen (erroneously) in most of my games.

Prot - I thought the Rhino had a Dirge - which would mean no OW for the Dread and the MG squad- with their full BS melta weapons.  

So- that was my blunder.  With the Rhino gone, (in theory), I felt I had the kill from the squad on the charge.  

If i had realised there was no dirge, i wouldnt have bothered.  

 

Also - good to know it happens with other players too!! 

[Prot]

I just thought of your thread here as I tried a more 'generic' take on my Ultramarines Battle Company and ended up facing an Ork FnP Biker list similar to your friend's. (if anyone's interested it's batrepped with some pics here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314561-prots-battle-co-batrep-with-pics-vs-orks-quick-n-dirty/ )

 

It's amazing to me how underrated Orks are. The meta now in many areas is full of grav, and anti-deathstar, and then these guys come to town with a skillful player and can mess it all up. Grav is pretty lack luster against these guys, and they're into you so fast. The Battle Co, I am finding, and I assume the same for Dark Angels is hard hit by that sort of list, and in my case he was using Mega Armoured Nobs as well which was a real pain.

[Morticon]

I find auspex on any character that can take it absolutely invaluable.  

Its my auto-include.

[Prot]

Yes since the Battle Co forces 2 characters, I usually have 2 Auspexes if I can fit in.