DA: Spark Notes version for a player from a different Chapte

[Indefragable]

Greetings, Battle Brothers.

 

I play Blood Angels and Imperial Guard but I seek advice on Dark Angels for a friend. It's funny since he actually got me into TT 40k but due to a mostly seasons job and a 2 year old, he has completely fallen away while I of no children and an office job have only gotten deeper and deeper into the hobby ("better" at it is a matter of debate).

 

He got the Dark Vengeance kit last fall, played a few games and then life took some twists and turns so for all intents and purposes he is starting from scratch again. He owns the Dark Vengenace starter models, Azrael, some DA Veterans, and I think maybe some sniper scouts.

 

What I seek is some rough advice that I could relay to him as to what to definitely do and definitely NOT do with his burgeoning army. Now the answer to that is "well, what does he like?" of course, but what I am stabbing at is what units are a waste of money and what units no respectable DA player would ever be caught without. Coming from a Blood Angels army, I am concerned that what attracts my eye might not be actually that useful. For example after poking through the latest DA Codex on the shelf, I started drooling over Deathwing Knights with their T5 3++ but are they actually worthwhile? I just don't want to lead him too far astray based on my own faction's strengths/weaknesses.

 

I guess I am looking for a Spark Notes version of waht to avoid and what to absolutely focus on. I have perused the DA Lists section but to my untrained eye it's hard to understand why people choose what they do.

 

Thanks for your assistance.

[ChaosRising]

Perhaps you should try to boil it down to a matter of play style? If he prefers more of a gunline/battle company, then you can probably rule out most Deathwing and Ravenwing models. Similarly if he wants to go heavy on deepstriking models, then you may want to look into a lot of assault marines/and or Deathwing, possibly supported by Ravenwing bikes to provide teleport signals.

 

Regardless of which he prefers, I'd say nail down some kind of play style first.

 

Also, don't forget that you can play an Unbound army - so he can take whatever he has laying around, tally up the points/model plus any upgrades and out pops an army. He won't get any special perks if his unit's don't fall within detachment or formation guidelines (as you probably know) but at least he can use what he has in some fashion.

 

Finally...how aggressive a player is he? If he's only going to play a casual game now and then he'll have more options (tactically) than someone who wants to have the highest ranked competition army (those armies almost always follow the same build and are typically countered with a specific build by each other army/race).

[Indefragable]

Perhaps you should try to boil it down to a matter of play style? If he prefers more of a gunline/battle company, then you can probably rule out most Deathwing and Ravenwing models. Similarly if he wants to go heavy on deepstriking models, then you may want to look into a lot of assault marines/and or Deathwing, possibly supported by Ravenwing bikes to provide teleport signals.

 

Regardless of which he prefers, I'd say nail down some kind of play style first.

 

Also, don't forget that you can play an Unbound army - so he can take whatever he has laying around, tally up the points/model plus any upgrades and out pops an army. He won't get any special perks if his unit's don't fall within detachment or formation guidelines (as you probably know) but at least he can use what he has in some fashion.

 

Finally...how aggressive a player is he? If he's only going to play a casual game now and then he'll have more options (tactically) than someone who wants to have the highest ranked competition army (those armies almost always follow the same build and are typically countered with a specific build by each other army/race).

Honestly, I don't think he knows enough to have a style yet. The few times we've played he liked his Terminators, but then again what new player doesn't?

 

With a kid and other responsibilities $ is especially tight so I just don't want him buying stuff only to realize it is extremely hard to synergize or something. i play very fast, in-your-face stabby Blood Angels or Artilery-heavy IG. I am just worried that advice I may lend him weighs too heavily in favor of those too opposite styles as opposed to something more suited to DA's unique strengths.

 

How important is the Lion's Blade detachment?

Is the Interromancy psyker discipline as amazing as it seems?

Are there any particular units that punch above their weight class? (For BA it would be Meltacide Drop Pods or "Fragioso" Dreadnoughts)

Any units that just plain points-dumps? (Captain Tycho for BA)

 

He is casually aggressive. Neither of us are going to tournaments any time soon and will mostly be Beerhammering, especially as he trains up. However, we are competitive in ways that only friends since 4th grade can be. Once he gets the swing of it again, things will get quite heated (in a good way).

 

Just trying to gain some perspective to guide him so that he is not overwhelmed diving back in.

[Indefragable]

In my research I came across these bits of advice from 4chan...agree/disagree?

 

1)

"Two Troops and an HQ is your starting point as always. We recommend two tactical squads and something with a psychic hood.

Otherwise, the Dark Vengeance box set is a good place to start for models. For about 100 US dollars (£61.50 British pounds), you get 5 Terminators, 3 awesome looking bikers, and a tactical squad with two (maybe 3 if you're lucky enough to get the limited edition) HQs if possible swap the chaos marines for more angels this gives you 10 terminators, 6 bikers, 4 HQ and 2 troops that can be made with 2 plasma guns or 2 plasma cannons. That, or get the new Dark Angels Dark Vengeance expansion (1 Dark Talon/Nephilim Jet Fighter, a Squad of Deathwing Terminators/Knights/Command Squad, and a squad of Ravenwing Black Knights/Command Squad) for $140 USD. Remember the phrase "Up-sell scheme", folks!"

 

2)

"Greenwing is now so much more attractive thanks to the Lion's Blade Strike Force and the benefits a Demi-Company gives you (BS3/4 overwatch? Well, shoot my monkey!).

Ravenwing are awesome, with Relentless Grav-Guns and re-rollable Jinking. By far the most badass bikers in the Imperium, and they still have all their old tricks from the last Codex (Teleport Homers everywhere, a Land Speeder granting your units mobile Stealth),

Deathwing are the only part of this equation that probably lost more than was given with the current Codex, no more Turn 1 Deepstriking, nor the ability to choose when you Deepstrike without rolling for it. You now have to take the Deathwing Strike Force detachment and the Ravenwing Attack Squadron formation or the Ravenwing Strike Force detachment for the latter ability. Still, the old stratagems work."

 

3)

"Land, Sea, and Air: A classic set-up from the 6th Edition Codex. 2+ squads of Ravenwing Bikes (1 Scouting up the field, the other Outflanking), some Deathwing Terminators, and Tactical Marines and Devastators lining up for long ranged support. This approach gives you speed and resilient units, precision deepstriking from Ravenwing Teleport Homers while your Devastators back you up with Missile Launchers, and your Tactical Marines take the objectives and dare the enemy to dig out BS2 Overwatching, Stubborn SPEHS MUHREENS. Hit them from the land (Greenwing), Sea (Ravenwing), and Air (Deathwing). A really good optional thing to do is to give 2 Bikers Grav-guns, and your sarge a Combi-Grave in each of your Ravenwing Squads since Bikers have Relentless. For 8 Melta bombs extra per squad, 9 shots that hit on 3s wounding on 3+ or 2+ and Concussing a Monstrous Creature before charging is damn well worth it. Even better if you concussed the MC as it was charging thanks to BS2 Overwatch"

[shabbadoo]

There isn't really such a thing as "spark notes" on the entirety of a codex's strategies. Well, there is, but it constitues nearly every tactical thread on this forum. There are literally dozens of army configurations, with further variance denoted by the weapon loadouts for the units in the army itself.  All of that goes to determining a unit's tactics within the overall strategy of that particular army build. In short, there is no short answer.  Your friend needs to put in the time and read some tactical analysis threads; there isn't really an "easy button".  To get him started though, he should paly a few games and figure out which units he likes.  Then he can narrow his reading to threads on those particular units and the detachments/formations they can be a part of.

[aura_enchanted]

Greetings, Battle Brothers.

 

I play Blood Angels and Imperial Guard but I seek advice on Dark Angels for a friend. It's funny since he actually got me into TT 40k but due to a mostly seasons job and a 2 year old, he has completely fallen away while I of no children and an office job have only gotten deeper and deeper into the hobby ("better" at it is a matter of debate).

 

He got the Dark Vengeance kit last fall, played a few games and then life took some twists and turns so for all intents and purposes he is starting from scratch again. He owns the Dark Vengenace starter models, Azrael, some DA Veterans, and I think maybe some sniper scouts.

 

What I seek is some rough advice that I could relay to him as to what to definitely do and definitely NOT do with his burgeoning army. Now the answer to that is "well, what does he like?" of course, but what I am stabbing at is what units are a waste of money and what units no respectable DA player would ever be caught without. Coming from a Blood Angels army, I am concerned that what attracts my eye might not be actually that useful. For example after poking through the latest DA Codex on the shelf, I started drooling over Deathwing Knights with their T5 3++ but are they actually worthwhile? I just don't want to lead him too far astray based on my own faction's strengths/weaknesses.

 

I guess I am looking for a Spark Notes version of waht to avoid and what to absolutely focus on. I have perused the DA Lists section but to my untrained eye it's hard to understand why people choose what they do.

 

Thanks for your assistance.

okay heres what to avoid:

 

chaplains: standard chaplains are worthless we have the interrogator, why take this worthless pile of monkey junk?

 

land raider godhammer: unless its in some crazy hammer of caliban lascannon gunboat its probably not worth it

 

asmodai: hes fun to goof around with but hes got no practical value beyond silly lists in low end games

 

azreal: possibly the worst lord of war in the game, hes even worse than seth and ghazzy and that speaks volumes about how awful he is, dont take him, dont take him, dont take him.

 

nephilim: unless your dead set on sky silencer formation you can get better sources of s7, heavy bolters, and skyfire its called a deredeo forgeworld dreadnaught. interesting ramifications for a guy who wants to play terror from the skies. like its not awful, but its a lot easier to swallow your pride and bring a forgeworld than it is to justify fielding this flying pig

 

as for what to focus on, thats really up to what he finds attractive, plenty of ways to use all sorts of models in the codex but i find that if your going to field an army look at it as taking one or two sets of dark angels flavours:

 

normal marines only (tacticals, assault marines, devestators, company veterans are your specialist unit), lions blade double demi company is also a thing though its a bit overplayed if you ask me

 

ravenwing only (sammael leading a ravenwing strikeforce)

 

ravenwing with deathwing (deathwing are your reserve elements coming down on a dime to deliever pain from deepstrike)

ravenwing with normal marines (fast moving screens of bikes backed by long range fire and elite drop infantry in veterans)

 

deathwing with normal marines (the classic hammer and anvil, using the normals to hold the enemy in place and the terminators to smack from behind or to sow chaos and mess up target priority)

 

now the above being said the elusive triple team list is a thing that in my opinion just doesnt work, the problem is that you need to split your love somewhere and like a family of many children the middle ones are out there and neglect will happen. this causes gaps in the lineup you cant quite figure out a way to fill and in all comers lists you just cant make it happen without having the army look funny or be impractically points costed

 

when building a dark angels army (like most marines) its best to grow your core models first, the ever reliable CAD is where its best to start, using tacticals, and conventional marine units and then slowly adding in your specialists of choice and dark angels spice units. so i recommend avoiding early buying of say mountains of terminators or a few dozen boxes of ravenwing. i feel that if you dont go that route you wind up like so many unfortunate folks who think their the first hotshot who though deathwing en masse was a good way to jump up to 1500 points from dark vengeance boxes

[Indefragable]

 

 

Greetings, Battle Brothers.

 

I play Blood Angels and Imperial Guard but I seek advice on Dark Angels for a friend. It's funny since he actually got me into TT 40k but due to a mostly seasons job and a 2 year old, he has completely fallen away while I of no children and an office job have only gotten deeper and deeper into the hobby ("better" at it is a matter of debate).

 

He got the Dark Vengeance kit last fall, played a few games and then life took some twists and turns so for all intents and purposes he is starting from scratch again. He owns the Dark Vengenace starter models, Azrael, some DA Veterans, and I think maybe some sniper scouts.

 

What I seek is some rough advice that I could relay to him as to what to definitely do and definitely NOT do with his burgeoning army. Now the answer to that is "well, what does he like?" of course, but what I am stabbing at is what units are a waste of money and what units no respectable DA player would ever be caught without. Coming from a Blood Angels army, I am concerned that what attracts my eye might not be actually that useful. For example after poking through the latest DA Codex on the shelf, I started drooling over Deathwing Knights with their T5 3++ but are they actually worthwhile? I just don't want to lead him too far astray based on my own faction's strengths/weaknesses.

 

I guess I am looking for a Spark Notes version of waht to avoid and what to absolutely focus on. I have perused the DA Lists section but to my untrained eye it's hard to understand why people choose what they do.

 

Thanks for your assistance.

okay heres what to avoid:

 

chaplains: standard chaplains are worthless we have the interrogator, why take this worthless pile of monkey junk?

 

land raider godhammer: unless its in some crazy hammer of caliban lascannon gunboat its probably not worth it

 

asmodai: hes fun to goof around with but hes got no practical value beyond silly lists in low end games

 

azreal: possibly the worst lord of war in the game, hes even worse than seth and ghazzy and that speaks volumes about how awful he is, dont take him, dont take him, dont take him.

 

nephilim: unless your dead set on sky silencer formation you can get better sources of s7, heavy bolters, and skyfire its called a deredeo forgeworld dreadnaught. interesting ramifications for a guy who wants to play terror from the skies. like its not awful, but its a lot easier to swallow your pride and bring a forgeworld than it is to justify fielding this flying pig

 

as for what to focus on, thats really up to what he finds attractive, plenty of ways to use all sorts of models in the codex but i find that if your going to field an army look at it as taking one or two sets of dark angels flavours:

 

normal marines only (tacticals, assault marines, devestators, company veterans are your specialist unit), lions blade double demi company is also a thing though its a bit overplayed if you ask me

 

ravenwing only (sammael leading a ravenwing strikeforce)

 

ravenwing with deathwing (deathwing are your reserve elements coming down on a dime to deliever pain from deepstrike)

ravenwing with normal marines (fast moving screens of bikes backed by long range fire and elite drop infantry in veterans)

 

deathwing with normal marines (the classic hammer and anvil, using the normals to hold the enemy in place and the terminators to smack from behind or to sow chaos and mess up target priority)

 

now the above being said the elusive triple team list is a thing that in my opinion just doesnt work, the problem is that you need to split your love somewhere and like a family of many children the middle ones are out there and neglect will happen. this causes gaps in the lineup you cant quite figure out a way to fill and in all comers lists you just cant make it happen without having the army look funny or be impractically points costed

 

when building a dark angels army (like most marines) its best to grow your core models first, the ever reliable CAD is where its best to start, using tacticals, and conventional marine units and then slowly adding in your specialists of choice and dark angels spice units. so i recommend avoiding early buying of say mountains of terminators or a few dozen boxes of ravenwing. i feel that if you dont go that route you wind up like so many unfortunate folks who think their the first hotshot who though deathwing en masse was a good way to jump up to 1500 points from dark vengeance boxes

Ok, so regular Chaplains are no-go b/c the Interrogator is better in every way for a relatively minor 20pts more, right? And Asmodai is basically a named regular Chaplian?

 

Land Raider Godhammer = "regular" LR, I take it which would be self explanatory why it should be avoided.

 

I have heard that DA-exclusive flyers in general are overrated, so your reasoning on Nephilim makes sense.

 

Azrael, however, I am confused about. 4++ to any unit and a whole army getting Ld10 seems quite useful (attach to allied Conscripts, perhaps?) what exactly makes him so useless?

 

This is exactly the kinds of insight I am looking for: stuff that I can put in perspective for him to help him get off the ground and start focusing on what he likes/works.

[Indefragable]

"now the above being said the elusive triple team list is a thing that in my opinion just doesnt work, the problem is that you need to split your love somewhere and like a family of many children the middle ones are out there and neglect will happen. this causes gaps in the lineup you cant quite figure out a way to fill and in all comers lists you just cant make it happen without having the army look funny or be impractically points costed"

 

^= money right there. Thanks!

[Jehoel]

I have heard that DA-exclusive flyers in general are overrated, so your reasoning on Nephilim makes sense.

 

Azrael, however, I am confused about. 4++ to any unit and a whole army getting Ld10 seems quite useful (attach to allied Conscripts, perhaps?) what exactly makes him so useless?

 

This is exactly the kinds of insight I am looking for: stuff that I can put in perspective for him to help him get off the ground and start focusing on what he likes/works.

 

 

Our flyers seem to draw both disdain and love. The Nephilim moreso than the others. The Darkshroud draws the most love and can be a great help with most lists.

 

Azreal gets disdain because he seems to work best with units from other codices, but is weak when paired with most DA units. Personally, if you (or your friend) are/is doing a greenwing force like the Lion's Blade, then Azrael might be useful. Since I prefer Ravenwing with Deathwing support, Azrael is not even on my radar.

[Rodiger]

If money is tight I would suggest getting 2 DA Armies from Dark Vengeance off Ebay to add to his existing one. Then he will have 30 tacticals, 9 bikes and 15 terminators, 3 Librarians. If you and him don’t mind him proxying some units, then he can try out the different wings and formations and see where he wants to expand from there, you can also try the Libraious Conclave as well. You need at least 26 models to make the Demi Company, he can run 3, 5 man Tacticals from that, proxy the Devastators and the Assault Marines, for instance if he likes them he can buy the real Assault squad or Devastators at a later date, if he doesn’t then he hasn’t wasted any money. He can take the Deathwing Redemption Force, and proxy some Deathwing Knights or Command Squad, if he likes them he can invest in the HQ in Terminator Armour or the real Knights later. Basically he has enough models to try out the different aspects of the Codex. The big thing to think about is this Codex is forcing synergy of the different wings, solitary wings lose lots of benefits. So it’s best to try run two wings, see which ones he likes after trying them out. Running all 3 together is difficult and you need to be playing over 2000 points to make a decent go of it, and running the Lions Blade.

 

I would also suggest FAQing yourself the Ravenwing rule to be accessible by Chaplains and Librarians on bikes so he doesn’t have to buy Sammael just to run the Ravenwing Strike Force.

 

Running a Terminator Army may be best for actual money spent as it will end up being cheaper, especially compared to a Ravenwing army.

 

One downside of getting 2 more Dark Vengeance armies is it may become boring painting the same models over and over again, and your army will look the same. I don’t know how much he enjoys painting, or his skill level, or time to put into it, but if he is starting out and time is tight then they are good practice models to build and paint and they are fast to put together.

 

After this ask again at a later date when he knows what he likes, but you could either try the Dark Vengeance Expansion box, or if he likes Ravenwing, the Dark Angels Battleforce, Land Speeders are a must buy for Ravenwing as you need them for a lot of the formations. Just proxy Black Knights, yes the models look good, but £30 for three of them or you can get 9 Dark Vengeance Bikers for £30 off Ebay.

 

The Lions Blade has some amazing benefits, and I would recommend taking it over a CAD. If you are playing Blood Angels the Overwatching at Full Ballistic Skill may become the bane of your life.  

 

I personally think Dreadnaughts are amazing in this Codex, a squadron of three with Assault Cannons and Heavy Flamer Powerfists have destroyed everything in their path especially if taken in the Demi Company, as they are Objective Secured and Over Watch at Full Ballistic Skill. But Dreadnaughts are expensive moneywise and lots of people don’t like them.

 

I love Deathwing Knights, a squad of 10 of them doesn’t die and makes everything else die, I am still undecided if they have been nerfed or gotten better yet.

 

I don’t mind Azrael, but since he lost his troop altering abilities and became a Lord of War I haven’t bothered with him. He makes a great team with Ezekiel though.

 

Ezekiel is great, you can proxy him with one of the Librarians from Dark Vengeance and use the other 2 to make the Libraious Conclave. Interromancy is an excellent Psychic discipline, so having lots of Librarians is a good idea, and Ezekiel is Lv3 and gives other units + 1 attack and he has a Leadership Bubble.     

Dark Shrouds and Black Knights are a favourite combo of many, I mainly play against a Close Combat Army so they don’t really do it for me, but lots of people have great success with them.

 

Idea of units to buy to expand each of the wings.

Greenwing - Assault Marines, Devastators, Rhinos, Razorbacks, Drop Pods, Dreadnaught

Deathwing – Deathwing Knights, HQ in Terminator Armour, Landraider, Dreadnaught

Ravenwing – Sammael, More Bikes, Land Speeders, Attack Bikes, Dark Shroud, Dark Talon  

[Pigshead]

I would suggest that anyone starting with dark angels invest in some black Knights, they were my favourite unit in 6th and now they have re-roll jinks they absolutely shine. Only down side is all my regular opponents know this and make a point of trying to kill them ASAP. A visit to eBay for a spare bike, a second dark vengeance librarian, and you've got a fairly cheap, easy to make librarian on a bike which gives you a solid HQ.

 

Another ravenwing unit worth looking at is the support squadron, the ability to provide overwatch support to that black knight/librarian command squad is a beautiful thing. And if you can somehow wedge it into a Lions Blade then they have full BS overwatch, although that's tricky to do in smaller point games.

 

The Dark Talon is a great flier if used right and in conjunction with other units.

 

The lions blade works really well. I personally prefer to go for a company master over the chaplain, but that's because I've gone to the trouble of converting a dark vengeance company master model with a DW Knights mace and hood and since I put all that effort in, I'm damn well going to use him.

[aura_enchanted]

 

 

Greetings, Battle Brothers.

 

I play Blood Angels and Imperial Guard but I seek advice on Dark Angels for a friend. It's funny since he actually got me into TT 40k but due to a mostly seasons job and a 2 year old, he has completely fallen away while I of no children and an office job have only gotten deeper and deeper into the hobby ("better" at it is a matter of debate).

 

He got the Dark Vengeance kit last fall, played a few games and then life took some twists and turns so for all intents and purposes he is starting from scratch again. He owns the Dark Vengenace starter models, Azrael, some DA Veterans, and I think maybe some sniper scouts.

 

What I seek is some rough advice that I could relay to him as to what to definitely do and definitely NOT do with his burgeoning army. Now the answer to that is "well, what does he like?" of course, but what I am stabbing at is what units are a waste of money and what units no respectable DA player would ever be caught without. Coming from a Blood Angels army, I am concerned that what attracts my eye might not be actually that useful. For example after poking through the latest DA Codex on the shelf, I started drooling over Deathwing Knights with their T5 3++ but are they actually worthwhile? I just don't want to lead him too far astray based on my own faction's strengths/weaknesses.

 

I guess I am looking for a Spark Notes version of waht to avoid and what to absolutely focus on. I have perused the DA Lists section but to my untrained eye it's hard to understand why people choose what they do.

 

Thanks for your assistance.

okay heres what to avoid:

 

chaplains: standard chaplains are worthless we have the interrogator, why take this worthless pile of monkey junk?

 

land raider godhammer: unless its in some crazy hammer of caliban lascannon gunboat its probably not worth it

 

asmodai: hes fun to goof around with but hes got no practical value beyond silly lists in low end games

 

azreal: possibly the worst lord of war in the game, hes even worse than seth and ghazzy and that speaks volumes about how awful he is, dont take him, dont take him, dont take him.

 

nephilim: unless your dead set on sky silencer formation you can get better sources of s7, heavy bolters, and skyfire its called a deredeo forgeworld dreadnaught. interesting ramifications for a guy who wants to play terror from the skies. like its not awful, but its a lot easier to swallow your pride and bring a forgeworld than it is to justify fielding this flying pig

 

as for what to focus on, thats really up to what he finds attractive, plenty of ways to use all sorts of models in the codex but i find that if your going to field an army look at it as taking one or two sets of dark angels flavours:

 

normal marines only (tacticals, assault marines, devestators, company veterans are your specialist unit), lions blade double demi company is also a thing though its a bit overplayed if you ask me

 

ravenwing only (sammael leading a ravenwing strikeforce)

 

ravenwing with deathwing (deathwing are your reserve elements coming down on a dime to deliever pain from deepstrike)

ravenwing with normal marines (fast moving screens of bikes backed by long range fire and elite drop infantry in veterans)

 

deathwing with normal marines (the classic hammer and anvil, using the normals to hold the enemy in place and the terminators to smack from behind or to sow chaos and mess up target priority)

 

now the above being said the elusive triple team list is a thing that in my opinion just doesnt work, the problem is that you need to split your love somewhere and like a family of many children the middle ones are out there and neglect will happen. this causes gaps in the lineup you cant quite figure out a way to fill and in all comers lists you just cant make it happen without having the army look funny or be impractically points costed

 

when building a dark angels army (like most marines) its best to grow your core models first, the ever reliable CAD is where its best to start, using tacticals, and conventional marine units and then slowly adding in your specialists of choice and dark angels spice units. so i recommend avoiding early buying of say mountains of terminators or a few dozen boxes of ravenwing. i feel that if you dont go that route you wind up like so many unfortunate folks who think their the first hotshot who though deathwing en masse was a good way to jump up to 1500 points from dark vengeance boxes

Ok, so regular Chaplains are no-go b/c the Interrogator is better in every way for a relatively minor 20pts more, right? And Asmodai is basically a named regular Chaplian?

 

Land Raider Godhammer = "regular" LR, I take it which would be self explanatory why it should be avoided.

 

I have heard that DA-exclusive flyers in general are overrated, so your reasoning on Nephilim makes sense.

 

Azrael, however, I am confused about. 4++ to any unit and a whole army getting Ld10 seems quite useful (attach to allied Conscripts, perhaps?) what exactly makes him so useless?

 

This is exactly the kinds of insight I am looking for: stuff that I can put in perspective for him to help him get off the ground and start focusing on what he likes/works.

 

asmodai is a named interrogator chaplain who has ignores cover shooting with his bolt pistol, and he scores d3 VP for slay the warlord.. thats it, thats his amazing gimmick for 35 points more. he cant buy a bike or tda, he has no purpose really.

 

azreals problem is that our army lives and dies by its synergy and azreal doesnt gel with anyone EXCEPT veterans. terminators by nature have a 5+ invul already, pairing him with them isnt really worth it, hes too slow to be paired with bikes (well theres one way to do it but its greasy and technical and just ugh, its not what id do), his melee attacks are fast and reliable but hopelessly weak, basically hes a more reliable company master or belial (insert slow boring clap here), and he costs as much as a land raider redeemer nearly!! (only 25 points cheaper yikes!).

 

yes you get to pick your warlord trait and yes he has a 4+ invul save he can grant but finding an internal to codex target for his invul is tricky because its either irrelevant (terminators), wasteful (assault marines, tacticals), or greasy (bikes), unless your a dude in robes (veterans) and veterans already have far more interesting combo's with people like techmarines and ezekiel, they dont need azreal's overcosted, underpreforming, midget helmet carrying support!