Templar-themed Blood Angels Successor

[Sir Perfluous]

Hi! This is my first post on the B&C, so please bear with me if I flail around a bit with various odds and ends, I'm sure I'll get there eventually.

 I'm currently in the process of cooking up an Arthurian legend/Knights Templar themed Blood Angels successor chapter. I am not the greatest fluff-master, nor am I particularly experienced at DIY-chaptering, so I will present here some of the ideas I have so far, as well as some questions I would be grateful if you could help me with. If anything I write here clashes with the lore or is particularly cliché, please call me out in it so I can correct it. This is only a first draft, by the way, I don't even have a proper name for the chapter yet, I just want to make sure what I have so far is OK. So, with that being said:

 

FOUNDING: The chapter was founded to guard the Sanguine Grail (more on that below) which was discovered some time after the Second Founding on the moon of Avalon. Nobody knows how it got there or who put it there, or, indeed, who made it. (Sorry for the lazy storytelling, but I thought I'd add some mystique to it). They are a relatively secret chapter, known of only by a few, yet they are very, very old. (I'm not sure which founding they could be, but probably a pretty early one). I'm a sucker for Da Vinci Code-style conspiracies and organisations, so I'd like to go with something like that.

 

THE SANGUINE GRAIL: The theme of this chapter is, as I have said, a Templar/Arthurian blend. They were founded to be the keepers and guardians of the Sanguine Grail, an ancient relic containing the blood of Sanguinius that was spilled during his great duel against Horus during the Battle of Terra. The Grail is very much like the grail of Arthurian legend, granting great longevity and healing wounds when it is given to a Blood Angel, acting very much like the other grails Sanguinary Priests possess. Picture it being poured on Sean Connery in Indiana Jones. The Sanguine Grail, however, is phenomenally powerful. The power of the blood within it has the ability to regrow lost limbs, heal otherwise mortal wounds and even bring back the recently deceased. It is so powerful, that the blood actually heals itself, constantly replenishing the supply within the grail. However, drinking it comes at a great price. The blood enhances the power of the Flaw within the Blood Angels amplifying the memory of Sanguinius' fall until all but the most powerful and strong-willed of the marines succumb. It is administered to the fallen during or immediately after combat, but only in the most dire of cases, when the marine would die without its aid, or already has. Then the marine is taken to a specially designed Black Altar within the chapter's fortress monastery on the moon of Avalon to await his fate. Over the course of the next few days, the marine is healed entirely of any injuries, yet in most cases his consciousness is shattered by the Black Rage. The rage consumes him utterly until he becomes an empty and soulless, yet perfectly serene, shadow of his former self, unlike the usual rage-filled Death Company of other Blood Angels chapters. This marine is then dubbed a Black Knight, and his armour painted black and white, before he joins the Death Company, to find his final death on the field of battle. Only the mightiest of the chapter's heroes overcome the rage, and they enter a stasis induced by the healing power of the Grail. They are then laid beneath the surface of Avalon, in great caverns as part of the First Company of the chapter, to awake when called upon by the Chief Librarian to fight for the chapter. The need must be dire for the company to be awoken, because whilst they are the best warriors the chapter has to offer, their numbers are few because so few overcome the Grail-induced rage. After the battle, those who survive return to stasis, to have their wounds healed.

I know that the Red Grail is sort of like this, but I really wanted a fluffy way to tie in the grail legends of both the Templars and the Knights of the Round table to the chapter. Sorry it's a lot of stuff.

 

AVALON: The chapter is based on the forested and hilly moon of Avalon, where most of the populace live at a mediaeval stage. I'm not yet sure why this is the case, but I'll get to it. The reason they are based there is that that was the location at which the Sanguine Grail was discovered, and thus it is considered holy. Their fortress-monastery is at the top of the highest peak on the moon, which I don't have a name for yet (though it'll probably be a play on the name Camelot). They recruit from the population of Avalon exclusively, as their day-to-day lives adhere fairly well to the code of the chapter. I'm not sure where in the galaxy to put Avalon, so input here would be a help. I imagine a sort of trial, similar to the ones regular Blood Angels hold on Baal for the recruiting process, with victors becoming squires, which function like scouts.

 

COMBAT DOCTRINE: The chapter revere close combat, believing it to be the most honourable form of combat, though they do recognise the value of ranged weapons. They're a very honourable lot, actually, with various codes of chivalry. This can be a hindrance in many cases, yet they will often scrap their notions of honour for those they deem unworthy of it, or when not to do so would be suicide. However, following this, they will spend a long time trying to atone for their misdeeds, praying and standing vigil and so on. They also greatly value jump packs and drop pods, emulating the angels whose honour they strive to match.

 

ODDS AND ENDS: I'd quite like to give the characters Arthurian names such as Galahad, Hector, Percival, Gawain and so on. I think it would tie in quite well with the Grail. For the most part, I will be using the Codex: Blood Angels to run the chapter, using equipment choices and colour scheme to show their identity. They'll probably make use of lots of power swords and other mediaeval-style weapons. I was thinking of a silver and red colour scheme (silver base, red trim) with gold for embellishments and on Captains and the like. I do have a question, however. Am I able to use Blood Angels-specific characters, tweak their colour scheme a bit then use them as written in my army? For instance, could I take Lemartes, colour him a bit differently, rename him Modred the Black and use him as he's written in the Codex? I want the army to be mechanically more or less the same as vanilla Blood Angels is all.

 

Thank you for reading all this. If there are any errors or clichés I have made, or if you have an idea of your own you would like to add (especially chapter name ideas - I'm completely stuck), please help, all criticism is welcome.

 

Thank you!

[Conn Eremon]

First, welcome to the B&C and we're happy that the Liber was your first stop.

 

Second, awesome username. Yes, I got the reference. :tu:

 

Third, an Arthurian Blood Angels Successor should be interesting. A lot of the knights, particularly the more well-known, struggled with an inner darkness or baser urges, which was highlighted when they stood beside peers that were truly virtuous. This is very fitting for a Blood Angels Successor.

 

As for the Sanguine Grail, such devices are already a major part of the Blood Angels and their Successors. I think rather than it being their Founding purpose, it should be a relic gifted to them by their parent Chapter.

 

A relic they can then lose, triggering a millennia long hunt that is about as Arthurian as it gets. Which could serve a dual purpose, as the traits you give this particular Grail is a bit much. But having these traits be attributed to its legend in the long centuries the Chapter obsesses over its loss makes much more sense.

 

As for the names of the Marines, I would recommend modifying them rather than taking Arthurian names as is. Thinks like Gahaliel instead of Galahad is still an obvious connection, but does more to insert the typically angelic naming mechanisms of the Blood Angels and their kin (though it is far from required).

 

Sadly, this is all I have time for right now. It's an interesting start, and you have the right attitude to build this DIY up great, so kudos on that.

[Sir Perfluous]

Thank you! I actually found it quite weird, when I started brainstorming the chapter, how many similarities can be drawn between Arthurian legend and the Blood Angels. There is the nobility and corruption you mentioned, Lancelot's betrayal of Arthur being a famous example of this, as well as the Grail stuff and a few more obscure things. And speaking of grails, I know that there are lots of them about already in Blood Angels lore but it's such an important part of the Arthurian legend that I couldn't ignore it. The reason this one seems a bit OP is because I wanted to try to differentiate it from all the other grails, though I have tried to balance out its power with the Black Rage-inducing trauma of drinking from it, a fate worse than death for most marines. Though I do like your suggestion that it has somehow become lost. Finding it gives the chapter a goal to pursue, some ulterior motives, as opposed to your standard (yet admittedly still awesome) "smash the enemy for the glory of the Emperor" theme. And the addition of various traits to its legend over the centuries would help justify some of the ridiculous stuff, in a "they say that it could even bring back the dead!" sort of way. I would need to change a bit of the Death Company stuff, though, and I'm quite fond of that. Maybe some lesser grails remain or something. I dunno.

 

The reason I gave the grail to them as their Founding purpose was because I didn't want to have them Founded because "Oh, look! There are lots of Xenos there. Found a chapter!", and I couldn't think of another suitable raison d'etre for them. If the Blood Angels stumbled across this phenomenally powerful and mysterious relic on a primitive moon, they'd probably devote a new chapter to defending it and unlocking its secrets, at least in my mind. Still, I will consider what you've said and will probably come to a conclusion eventually. Thanks again for the help!

[Arkangilos]

The thing is, though, that isn't generally how foundings work. Originally I had my chapter founded in order to search for a lost grail (That was the Sanguinary Crusader's founding purpose), and I was smashed on that many years ago. Founds happen because of exactly what you said you didn't want. They are needed to protect a high risk area, and are *only* founded by the High Lords, no one else. The Blood Angels can't just found a chapter.

 

So instead I built it into my chapter that they existed, but a grail (the most important one in my chapter) was stolen, and now we quest  to get it back. (That part isn't in my current DiY, but that's been a running campaign my friends, dad, and I have had, involving his guys and my guys). 

 

But with yours, maybe you could incorporate both? They were founded to defend x region, and while defending x region, they came across the Sanguine Grail. It was after that that they met with the Blood Angels to discuss it's fate, and the Blood Angels entrusted them with the mission of defending it. 

 

*or* The Blood Angels found it, and when the chapter was founded to defend x region, they gifted the grail to the chapter as something the chapter would protect. 

[Sir Perfluous]

Actually, both of those ideas are better than mine. Thank you. I understand that only the High Lords can authorise a Founding, but I just sort of assumed that Dante or someone could put a word in. I suppose I'm trying to make my chapter a bit too special. As I said, I'm far from the greatest loremaster. The other reason I had them founded for that purpose, though, was because it was the only way I could think of to make the chapter a Blood Angels successor, as mostly the stable Ultramarines geneseed is used. I couldn't think of another reason for the BA's unstable geneseed to be used. If the Grail was a BA specific relic, it would make sense for a BA successor to guard it.

 

If the Grail were entrusted to them, though, it would actually also make the grail's loss that much more shameful for the chapter. As opposed to simply losing an incredibly holy artefact, they lost an incredibly holy artefact that they were trusted above all others to protect. Now I just need to work out how the Grail was lost. I suspect Chaos had something to do with it.  And, really, thanks. You've been a massive help.

[Conn Eremon]

There are many different reasons why a Chapter may be founded. One thing that likely connects it all together is that there is never a reason that any one Chapter is Founded. A Founding is declared by the High Lords of Terra, and each and every Chapter is part of it because somebody decided that was how large the Founding would be. Unless you are the Disciples of Caliban, the exception to the presumed rule.

 

However, once Founded, a Chapter's initial task or purpose likely has nothing to do with the High Lords, and could potentially be specific to the Chapter, though I imagine indirectly. The High Lords declare a Founding because the overall state of the Imperium cries out for an increased presence of the Adeptus Astartes. But once Founded, it is unlikely, or at the very least would be exceptionally inefficient, to simply have those Chapters meander outward, as if handed a bolter, told to leave Sol and nothing else. The fact that home worlds can be assigned at this time shows that some kind of purpose or intent is given to the Chapter upon Founding.

 

What that purpose is will likely be as varied as the needs of the Imperium and circumstances it finds itself in over the ten thousand years of its existence. It could be something as simple as giving them a home world and binding them with oaths to protect a particular sector. But within that, there could be more. Perhaps some pen-pusher sees a particular world to be assigned, and looking over its copious history gives him the idea to assign a Chapter of a particular geneline to this world. And so, a Blood Angels Successor find itself in charge of a world with a Sanguinian history.

 

But this is only one particular, specific thing the Imperium may be in need of Chapters for, and the fact that there are some Chapters that are born fleet-based means that it cannot be the only one. Perhaps upon a Founding's conclusion, a list of ongoing or upcoming Crusade efforts is pored over and a few newborn Chapters get a trial by fire. These Chapters may begin without home worlds, but perhaps they are given the right to claim one upon the Crusade's conclusion. Not only do you get a powerful military force to assist in the Crusade, but you have also bound it by oath to remain behind and hold onto conquered space. But perhaps the Chapter instead continues as it is born, traveling from war effort to war effort, never claiming a particular world as its own.

 

Foundings could also have more exotic, unique intentions. During the Nova-Terra Interregnum, the Imperium was split it by civil war, and there were Space Marines on both sides. It also occurred within the time frame in which the most Foundings occurred (something like 1/3 to 1/2 of all Foundings occurred M35/M36), from the unknown era of the 13th Dark Founding to the experimental 21st Cursed Founding. For all we know, there were Foundings simply to bring the balance of power within the Adeptus Astartes more fully within the Terran camp.

 

So really, Perf, what do you want to happen when your Chapter is Founded? Arkangilos' ideas are good ones, but I want to make sure they are what you want.

[Arkangilos]

Yeah, I agree with Conn. I didn't mean to sound like you should take those ideas, I was just trying to throw in some suggestions. To basically flesh it out more.

[Lysimachus]

The other reason I had them founded for that purpose, though, was because it was the only way I could think of to make the chapter a Blood Angels successor, as mostly the stable Ultramarines geneseed is used. I couldn't think of another reason for the BA's unstable geneseed to be used. If the Grail was a BA specific relic, it would make sense for a BA successor to guard it.

Just a small point, but remember that if you're going with the 2nd Founding (I'm not entirely sure from the intro if you are?), then it wasn't a case of the High Lords choosing geneseed as the 2nd was the splitting up of the survivors of the Legions into Chapters. Also bear in mind that the earlier you go in terms of Foundings, the flaws in the BA geneseed were probably less well known (if at all) and so it would likely have been used more.

 

Edit: Rereading, so not 2nd but still pretty early, so ignore my first point but the second one stands! :P

[Doctor Perils]

Pretty good start !

 

I wasn't aware so many people were trying to do grail-quest chapters (That's one of the tasks that my BA successor has given itself).

 

I think that it's important to justify your grail a bit more, because I think that Corbulo's grail is technically the one that got Sanguinius's blood after his duel with Horus. In my fluff, the Crimson Host believe that this is not in fact the true Grail, which is why they go on this quest. (I still have to write it out, but they will eventually discover that they were being manipulated by a greater daemon, which is why they later change their identity)

 

However, if there are (at least) three people doing this kind of grail-quest, we could probably change our stories slightly, so that there are in fact several BA successors that are in search of this relic, what do you say to that Sir Perfluous and Arkangilos ?

 

 

 

(FYI, my chapter is probably on an Arthurian-style quest, but they are far from being noble. They are actually going to be based more on the ancient Scythians, who are said to have inspired some of Arthurian legend)

[Sir Perfluous]

There are many different reasons why a Chapter may be founded. One thing that likely connects it all together is that there is never a reason that any one Chapter is Founded. A Founding is declared by the High Lords of Terra, and each and every Chapter is part of it because somebody decided that was how large the Founding would be. Unless you are the Disciples of Caliban, the exception to the presumed rule.

However, once Founded, a Chapter's initial task or purpose likely has nothing to do with the High Lords, and could potentially be specific to the Chapter, though I imagine indirectly. The High Lords declare a Founding because the overall state of the Imperium cries out for an increased presence of the Adeptus Astartes. But once Founded, it is unlikely, or at the very least would be exceptionally inefficient, to simply have those Chapters meander outward, as if handed a bolter, told to leave Sol and nothing else. The fact that home worlds can be assigned at this time shows that some kind of purpose or intent is given to the Chapter upon Founding.

What that purpose is will likely be as varied as the needs of the Imperium and circumstances it finds itself in over the ten thousand years of its existence. It could be something as simple as giving them a home world and binding them with oaths to protect a particular sector. But within that, there could be more. Perhaps some pen-pusher sees a particular world to be assigned, and looking over its copious history gives him the idea to assign a Chapter of a particular geneline to this world. And so, a Blood Angels Successor find itself in charge of a world with a Sanguinian history.

But this is only one particular, specific thing the Imperium may be in need of Chapters for, and the fact that there are some Chapters that are born fleet-based means that it cannot be the only one. Perhaps upon a Founding's conclusion, a list of ongoing or upcoming Crusade efforts is pored over and a few newborn Chapters get a trial by fire. These Chapters may begin without home worlds, but perhaps they are given the right to claim one upon the Crusade's conclusion. Not only do you get a powerful military force to assist in the Crusade, but you have also bound it by oath to remain behind and hold onto conquered space. But perhaps the Chapter instead continues as it is born, traveling from war effort to war effort, never claiming a particular world as its own.

Foundings could also have more exotic, unique intentions. During the Nova-Terra Interregnum, the Imperium was split it by civil war, and there were Space Marines on both sides. It also occurred within the time frame in which the most Foundings occurred (something like 1/3 to 1/2 of all Foundings occurred M35/M36), from the unknown era of the 13th Dark Founding to the experimental 21st Cursed Founding. For all we know, there were Foundings simply to bring the balance of power within the Adeptus Astartes more fully within the Terran camp.

So really, Perf, what do you want to happen when your Chapter is Founded? Arkangilos' ideas are good ones, but I want to make sure they are what you want.

OK, wow, that's a great summary, I think I've gottit. I am still undecided on many things, the Founding purpose among them (their current goals I've got sorted - recovering the Grail), but now you've both given me some inspiration I'll probably be able to make an informed decision. I am, after all, but a humble lactomancer, and all help is welcome (and needed!). As I said, this is only a first draft. Once I've got the details ironed out, I'll probably post a completed version on the Liber for general perusement. If I can find a lore-friendly way to incorporate the Grail into their founding purpose,I'd like to do that, and you've certainly given me ideas. Thank you.

Just a small point, but remember that if you're going with the 2nd Founding (I'm not entirely sure from the intro if you are?), then it wasn't a case of the High Lords choosing geneseed as the 2nd was the splitting up of the survivors of the Legions into Chapters. Also bear in mind that the earlier you go in terms of Foundings, the flaws in the BA geneseed were probably less well known (if at all) and so it would likely have been used more.

Edit: Rereading, so not 2nd but still pretty early, so ignore my first point but the second one stands!

I'd like them to be a pretty early founding, tying into my aforementioned suckerness for ancient organisations and conspiracy, and because I can't imagine that an insanely holy artifact would go unnoticed by the Imperium for long. Though I suppose that I could have the chapter be a very early Founding that was created at the same time as the Grail. Perhaps, as opposed to discovering the Grail, the chapter were entrusted with it at its creation. According to the Lexicanum, "Sanguinius's body was taken by the Imperial forces as they retreated from the buckling Chaos Barge and his body was borne away to his home planet Baal, where he was laid to rest in the Golden Sarcophagus, deep within a vast tomb whose doors were topped with massive Angel effigies in honour of the fallen Primarch". If his body could be recovered, I can imagine someone collecting the blood spilled by Horus as a relic. This blood would then probably then need to be guarded. Voila. Just an idea, I'm not sure if it'd work. But thanks for the help, I'd forgotten that the Flaw is getting stronger, so that would work if I decide that their original purpose was something completely different. Thanks!

EDIT: I posted this before I noticed your reply, Lord Thorn. I Googled around for Arthurian Grail-style Marine Chapters before starting on mine. There didn't seem to be that many, I suppose that the thread's topic must be attracting them! As for tying the chapters together... I quite like that idea. If they are all searching for the same relic it could lend some credence to its supposed awesome power. Maybe they were originally one chapter, which splintered because of conflicting ideologies, I'm not even sure it that's possible, but if your Crimson Host were being manipulated by daemons, then I think that would justify it. And the Scythians were a pretty nasty lot. According to Wikipedia, "The Scythians were notoriously aggressive warriors. They "fought to live and lived to fight" and "drank the blood of their enemies and used their scalps as napkins". Though the blood drinking does seem pretty Blood Angels, this attitude would contrast with the supposed nobility of my lot and perhaps justify a split, if it's possible. It also seems like stuff a Chaos-serving Chapter would get up to as well. Maybe the Crimson Host are after it for the power and eternal life it promises, while my chapter is after it because it's really holy and they consider themselves to be do-gooders. A race to get to it first could be cool. All chapters need a rival.

PS: The Crimson Host is an awesome chapter name. Now I need one that cool.

[Olis]

How much collected blood are you envisioning? To me it would sound realistic if it was an opportunistic swipe of the vial during the bedlam, rather than a whole grail's worth. Would it be possible that the actual grail is merely a reliquary for the smaller receptacle? 

 

Or, would Sanguinius being exsanguinated at a later point work better? There's probably (not a lot) more blood in him after death, rather than the pool of blood on the Vengeful Spirit.

[Sir Perfluous]

How much collected blood are you envisioning? To me it would sound realistic if it was an opportunistic swipe of the vial during the bedlam, rather than a whole grail's worth. Would it be possible that the actual grail is merely a reliquary for the smaller receptacle? 

 

Or, would Sanguinius being exsanguinated at a later point work better? There's probably (not a lot) more blood in him after death, rather than the pool of blood on the Vengeful Spirit.

 

Well I suppose either would work. There wouldn't be a lot of blood in the grail if it were an opportunistic swipe, but the blood does self-replicate, so it'd still work. Blood taken from his wounds later would fit too, though it might not possess the same psychic imprint later on. I want this blood to accelerate the Flaw, as well as healing.

[Doctor Perils]

Or the cup (at least the handle) could be made in hollow armaglass, with a drop of blood in the "handle". Also, if it has such awesome power, knowing that we 'know' that the grail held by corbulo did collect Sanguinius's blood, this relic could be something else entirely, on a whole other level of power (justifying two or three entire chapters of Space Marines searching for it) ; what if it held a parcel of the blood of the Emperor, and it was the first blood chalice gifted to the Blood Angels Legion by the Emperor himself.

Also, my chapter (Crimson Host, which become the Crimson Cohort) is already descending from Brother Olis's Red Sentinels, because of shared tactics (namely a lot of bikes). However, the first recclusiarch or Blood Priest could come from your chapter

Have you got any ideas for chapter name/colours/badge ? Preferred tactics ? Organisation ?

EDIT: you might want to have a quick look at the BBCode possibilities for creating titles, breaking up that first post into visible sections would make it more legible I think.

[Olis]

Also, my chapter (Crimson Host, which become the Crimson Cohort) is already descending from Brother Olis's Red Sentinels, because of shared tactics (namely a lot of bikes). 

 

That reminds me, when the next relevant Liber Challenge comes up, I'll be putting more time into the Red Sentinels. ^_^

[Doctor Perils]

Well, I'll just have to try and do the same

[Arkangilos]

I wouldn't be opposed to my chapter working with you all, but my Grail quest is pretty much already set. And the way it was stolen from us was pretty important. So I'm not likely to change that.

 

However, my chapter loves doing quests and crusades, so there's no reason to turn down an opportunity to search with you. We could probably come up with a cool campaign. My guys try to get along with other chapters. Except for the Dark Angels, we are now openly hostile towards them. So if you are their friends, expect something nasty if they are near.

 

 

As to the split chapter thing, I would personally stay away from that (also, mine is a second founding chapter).

 

But, because our chapters are kind of related, maybe you could get some inspiration from looking over ours (Lord Thorn's, and mine)? (I'm not trying to advertise. I seriously think it's applicable).

[Sir Perfluous]

Or the cup (at least the handle) could be made in hollow armaglass, with a drop of blood in the "handle". Also, if it has such awesome power, knowing that we 'know' that the grail held by corbulo did collect Sanguinius's blood, this relic could be something else entirely, on a whole other level of power (justifying two or three entire chapters of Space Marines searching for it) ; what if it held a parcel of the blood of the Emperor, and it was the first blood chalice gifted to the Blood Angels Legion by the Emperor himself.

Also, my chapter (Crimson Host, which become the Crimson Cohort) is already descending from Brother Olis's Red Sentinels, because of shared tactics (namely a lot of bikes). However, the first recclusiarch or Blood Priest could come from your chapter

Have you got any ideas for chapter name/colours/badge ? Preferred tactics ? Organisation ?

EDIT: you might want to have a quick look at the BBCode possibilities for creating titles, breaking up that first post into visible sections would make it more legible I think.

Damn. I liked the splinter chapter idea. Still, I suppose I might still be able to do it with a chapter I make up that nobody's playing. That would also mean that I could have the rival chapter turned entirely to Chaos, as opposed to simply having their strings pulled. I still like the idea of many chapters hunting it.

As for the blood of the Emperor... I think this grail is getting more OP by the minute. I like it .

I addressed some of my ideas for colours and tactics in the original post. I was thinking a sort of silver or grey for the base, with red trim. Leadbelcher is the colour I have to hand, but it needn't be that precise shade. The grey emulates the chainmail and plate of medieval knights, whilst the red is to signify their connection to the Blood Angels. I might use gold for embellishments and so forth. Death Company will be the standard black, with white trim and red here and there. The badge is still being considered, and I won't make a final decision until I try to paint them, but I was thinking a sword pointing down behind a chalice, or perhaps a cross of some kind.

Tactics-wise, they revere close combat, and almost all of the marines will carry at least one melee weapon. They do recognise the advantage provided by ranged weapons though, and most troops will carry some variation on the power sword/bolt pistol combo, with scattered power fists, thunder hammers, flamers, meltaguns etc. Because of their use of melee weapons, they also use lots of jump packs, drop pods and so on.

As for chapter organisation, I'm still deliberating that. I don't think they'd be particularly Codex-adherent, possibly arranging themselves in a different way to the standard companies, maybe like the Black Templars. Their First Company (or whatever I end up calling it) is, after all, in stasis underground. I'm thinking that this "company" is similar to the Dark Angels' Deathwing in organisation.

I have no idea about a name. I've considered a few - Angels Templar, The Grailsons, as well as other, even worse ones. Something that evokes an ancient, knight-ish theme, but I'm damned if I know what. Any suggestions here would be very helpful.

[Sir Perfluous]

I wouldn't be opposed to my chapter working with you all, but my Grail quest is pretty much already set. And the way it was stolen from us was pretty important. So I'm not likely to change that.

 

However, my chapter loves doing quests and crusades, so there's no reason to turn down an opportunity to search with you. We could probably come up with a cool campaign. My guys try to get along with other chapters. Except for the Dark Angels, we are now openly hostile towards them. So if you are their friends, expect something nasty if they are near.

 

 

As to the split chapter thing, I would personally stay away from that (also, mine is a second founding chapter).

 

But, because our chapters are kind of related, maybe you could get some inspiration from looking over ours (Lord Thorn's, and mine)? (I'm not trying to advertise. I seriously think it's applicable).

 

I think I might have a look at your stuff - I've had a brief look, but not in depth. 

 

The split chapter thing, it seems, can actually happen - at least, it did happen once when Lion El'Johnson was killed by Luther who ran off with the Fallen Angels. I might be able to weave something equally as big into the chapter's backstory. There's an Arthurian basis for this as well - Arthur was betrayed and killed by Modred, who was one of his knights at one stage.

[Doctor Perils]

Damn. I liked the splinter chapter idea. Still, I suppose I might still be able to do it with a chapter I make up that nobody's playing. That would also mean that I could have the rival chapter turned entirely to Chaos, as opposed to simply having their strings pulled. I still like the idea of many chapters hunting it.

As for the blood of the Emperor... I think this grail is getting more OP by the minute. I like it .

I addressed some of my ideas for colours and tactics in the original post. I was thinking a sort of silver or grey for the base, with red trim. Leadbelcher is the colour I have to hand, but it needn't be that precise shade. The grey emulates the chainmail and plate of medieval knights, whilst the red is to signify their connection to the Blood Angels. I might use gold for embellishments and so forth. Death Company will be the standard black, with white trim and red here and there. The badge is still being considered, and I won't make a final decision until I try to paint them, but I was thinking a sword pointing down behind a chalice, or perhaps a cross of some kind.

Tactics-wise, they revere close combat, and almost all of the marines will carry at least one melee weapon. They do recognise the advantage provided by ranged weapons though, and most troops will carry some variation on the power sword/bolt pistol combo, with scattered power fists, thunder hammers, flamers, meltaguns etc. Because of their use of melee weapons, they also use lots of jump packs, drop pods and so on.

As for chapter organisation, I'm still deliberating that. I don't think they'd be particularly Codex-adherent, possibly arranging themselves in a different way to the standard companies, maybe like the Black Templars. Their First Company (or whatever I end up calling it) is, after all, in stasis underground. I'm thinking that this "company" is similar to the Dark Angels' Deathwing in organisation.

I have no idea about a name. I've considered a few - Angels Templar, The Grailsons, as well as other, even worse ones. Something that evokes an ancient, knight-ish theme, but I'm damned if I know what. Any suggestions here would be very helpful.

Well, normally in the canon, split chapters don't exist, except for the second founding (well, split legion rather than split chapter) or for the Sons of Medusa. Normally it doesn't happen exactly like that otherwise. Don't let that stop you creating a successor chapter though: in fact, I can only recommend it!

I'm only really suggesting the idea of the blood of the emperor because there are entire chapters chasing after it, whereas most quests for primarch's relics concern companies (at most), at least in canon.

I think I've got an example of a Grail and Sword badge on my computer somewhere, I'll have to find it later. I'd steer away from using a cross as a chapter emblem, because there really isn't any reason for one in 40k (arthurian knights are christians, which is not the case of your chapter). Including an Aquila or something could be quite logical though, especially if your chapter followed the Lectitio Divinitatus when it was founded.

If your "first company" is in stasis, do you still have veterans ? a bit like Dark Angel company veterans probably ?

Knights of the Grail ? probably too obvious You could probably include "noble" as the prefix, because it is a quality associated with blood angels and their successors, it hearkens back to the knightly theme you want, and it can also echo the idea of blood (as in blood lines). eg. Noble Warriors... Or else use "Lords", "Knights", "Paladins" or "Champions" as a suffix. eg. Blood Lords I don't think has ever been used (in canon, I can't say for DIYs).

The split chapter thing, it seems, can actually happen - at least, it did happen once when Lion El'Johnson was killed by Luther who ran off with the Fallen Angels. I might be able to weave something equally as big into the chapter's backstory. There's an Arthurian basis for this as well - Arthur was betrayed and killed by Modred, who was one of his knights at one stage.

The example you give is unfortunately wrong... Just about in ever way

What you describe was with a Legion, during the Horus Heresy, not a chapter. Lion El'Jonson was mortally wounded, but I think he is still alive and kept in stasis under the Rock, something that only the Supreme Grand Master of the Dark Angels knows (if even him): the other Dark Angels do however believe he'll return for the End Times.

Luther is definitely in a cell under the rock, and generations of Interrogator Chaplains have been trying to break him open, but he is thoroughly insane.

And finally, the Fallen didn't run off together, they were scattered to all corners of the galaxy in different times by the Chaos Gods.

Sorry if I'm a bit blunt.

Technically, it is possible for a chapter to split in two, but as I said earlier in this post, officially in the canon, this has only ever happened once, with the Sons of Medusa (not counting the Legions splitting into chapters).

But as I also said, that shouldn't stop you from creating a successor chapter

[Sir Perfluous]

The split chapter thing, it seems, can actually happen - at least, it did happen once when Lion El'Johnson was killed by Luther who ran off with the Fallen Angels. I might be able to weave something equally as big into the chapter's backstory. There's an Arthurian basis for this as well - Arthur was betrayed and killed by Modred, who was one of his knights at one stage.

The example you give is unfortunately wrong... Just about in ever way

What you describe was with a Legion, during the Horus Heresy, not a chapter. Lion El'Jonson was mortally wounded, but I think he is still alive and kept in stasis under the Rock, something that only the Supreme Grand Master of the Dark Angels knows (if even him): the other Dark Angels do however believe he'll return for the End Times.

Luther is definitely in a cell under the rock, and generations of Interrogator Chaplains have been trying to break him open, but he is thoroughly insane.

And finally, the Fallen didn't run off together, they were scattered to all corners of the galaxy in different times by the Chaos Gods.

Sorry if I'm a bit blunt.

Technically, it is possible for a chapter to split in two, but as I said earlier in this post, officially in the canon, this has only ever happened once, with the Sons of Medusa (not counting the Legions splitting into chapters).

But as I also said, that shouldn't stop you from creating a successor chapter

Well, if only the Supreme Grand Master knows of his survival, I'm sure I can be forgiven for my ignorance! Thanks for clearing that up. I guess I'm just not reading my lore fully. It's just that the story of the Fallen was the first stories that popped into my head of parts of a chapter/legion breaking free, as opposed to the whole lot of them, the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus for instance, though I'm sure there are more. It's only a half-remembered story for me. I know the general gist of what happened, but maybe I should've done more research before using it as an example.

If it never really happens, though, I'm feeling a bit iffy about including it in the backstory, great as it may be. I don't want to fall into the "look how special my chapter is!" trap.

Thank you again for culling my ignorance before it could spread!

[Sir Perfluous]

Damn. I liked the splinter chapter idea. Still, I suppose I might still be able to do it with a chapter I make up that nobody's playing. That would also mean that I could have the rival chapter turned entirely to Chaos, as opposed to simply having their strings pulled. I still like the idea of many chapters hunting it.

As for the blood of the Emperor... I think this grail is getting more OP by the minute. I like it .

I addressed some of my ideas for colours and tactics in the original post. I was thinking a sort of silver or grey for the base, with red trim. Leadbelcher is the colour I have to hand, but it needn't be that precise shade. The grey emulates the chainmail and plate of medieval knights, whilst the red is to signify their connection to the Blood Angels. I might use gold for embellishments and so forth. Death Company will be the standard black, with white trim and red here and there. The badge is still being considered, and I won't make a final decision until I try to paint them, but I was thinking a sword pointing down behind a chalice, or perhaps a cross of some kind.

Tactics-wise, they revere close combat, and almost all of the marines will carry at least one melee weapon. They do recognise the advantage provided by ranged weapons though, and most troops will carry some variation on the power sword/bolt pistol combo, with scattered power fists, thunder hammers, flamers, meltaguns etc. Because of their use of melee weapons, they also use lots of jump packs, drop pods and so on.

As for chapter organisation, I'm still deliberating that. I don't think they'd be particularly Codex-adherent, possibly arranging themselves in a different way to the standard companies, maybe like the Black Templars. Their First Company (or whatever I end up calling it) is, after all, in stasis underground. I'm thinking that this "company" is similar to the Dark Angels' Deathwing in organisation.

I have no idea about a name. I've considered a few - Angels Templar, The Grailsons, as well as other, even worse ones. Something that evokes an ancient, knight-ish theme, but I'm damned if I know what. Any suggestions here would be very helpful.

Well, normally in the canon, split chapters don't exist, except for the second founding (well, split legion rather than split chapter) or for the Sons of Medusa. Normally it doesn't happen exactly like that otherwise. Don't let that stop you creating a successor chapter though: in fact, I can only recommend it!

I'm only really suggesting the idea of the blood of the emperor because there are entire chapters chasing after it, whereas most quests for primarch's relics concern companies (at most), at least in canon.

I think I've got an example of a Grail and Sword badge on my computer somewhere, I'll have to find it later. I'd steer away from using a cross as a chapter emblem, because there really isn't any reason for one in 40k (arthurian knights are christians, which is not the case of your chapter). Including an Aquila or something could be quite logical though, especially if your chapter followed the Lectitio Divinitatus when it was founded.

If your "first company" is in stasis, do you still have veterans ? a bit like Dark Angel company veterans probably ?

Knights of the Grail ? probably too obvious You could probably include "noble" as the prefix, because it is a quality associated with blood angels and their successors, it hearkens back to the knightly theme you want, and it can also echo the idea of blood (as in blood lines). eg. Noble Warriors... Or else use "Lords", "Knights", "Paladins" or "Champions" as a suffix. eg. Blood Lords I don't think has ever been used (in canon, I can't say for DIYs).

Firstly, sorry for the split reply. Secondly, the reason I suggested a cross was because you can get some "modern day" symbols here and there on Marine shoulderpads. The Black Templars have the Knights Templar-style cross and there is a canonical chapter out there with a fleur de lys. I can't remember what it's called right now, but I'm certain I've seen it. The Aquila might get a bit infuriating, I think, after I have to paint it on the umpteenth model! It's a wee bit fiddly, I'd imagine.

Names... Hmm... those are some good suggestions. Paladins of Blood? Knights Resplendent? The Sanguine Lords? Hmm...

[Doctor Perils]

Thank you again for culling my ignorance before it could spread!

Sorry, I didn't want to "cull" anything. But successor chapters are created all the time, so you can always use one of those for the same purpose. When a chapter is created, they take a few members from their parent chapter(s) who'll be doing the training and commanding, so you can still pretty much do anything you want with that.

Firstly, sorry for the split reply. Secondly, the reason I suggested a cross was because you can get some "modern day" symbols here and there on Marine shoulderpads. The Black Templars have the Knights Templar-style cross and there is a canonical chapter out there with a fleur de lys. I can't remember what it's called right now, but I'm certain I've seen it. The Aquila might get a bit infuriating, I think, after I have to paint it on the umpteenth model! It's a wee bit fiddly, I'd imagine.

Names... Hmm... those are some good suggestions. Paladins of Blood? Knights Resplendent? The Sanguine Lords? Hmm...

At the bottom of each of your posts, you should find an "edit" button.

The best known fleur de lys is that of the Sisters of Battle, then the Red Templars (for the chapter). Those both have a bit of back story in the game, but nothing stops you from creating something in the same style after all... but don't just do a straight cross, it's a bit non-descript. However, there's the symbol of the Order of Santiago that could work quite well for you : it's a red sword-shaped cross on a white background. Simplify it a bit for the models, and it should work (not saying easy ^^)

[Conn Eremon]

I would suggest playing around with cross icon, as you might come across a better way to convey what you want than just the straight up symbol.

 

I have a Chapter, the War Consuls, I wanted to thematically tie to the tumultuous period the Roman Empire underwent in the centuries following everyone's favorite Caesar. What I did for their symbol was to take the Emperor Constantine's device, the Chi-Rho, and modified it to take letters from the Chapter's High Gothic name, the Consuli Bellum, and ended up with the . . . I don't know Chi-Beta, I guess it would be called. It's simple, it isn't immediately recognizable, and it's thematic.

 

You may be able to do the same. Mess around with the symbol. Add other iconography, or combine. Make it simple. Make it direct.

[Olis]

Sir Perfluous, if you are unsure of details in the lore, feel free to either ask in the Liber Surgery or to ask here instead. You've got some strong ideas and a fantastic attitude, so far. We'd be more than happy to fill you in on any details you want to know. :) 

[Sir Perfluous]

Thank you again for culling my ignorance before it could spread!

Sorry, I didn't want to "cull" anything.

Is cull the wrong word? In Britain it means to kill off the worst of something, Dictionary.com tells me that there is a separate American meaning. Oops. But don't worry, culling my ignorance is a good thing.

The best known fleur de lys is that of the Sisters of Battle, then the Red Templars (for the chapter). Those both have a bit of back story in the game, but nothing stops you from creating something in the same style after all... but don't just do a straight cross, it's a bit non-descript. However, there's the symbol of the Order of Santiago that could work quite well for you : it's a red sword-shaped cross on a white background. Simplify it a bit for the models, and it should work (not saying easy ^^)

That cross does look quite cool, and it very helpfully ties in both the sword and the Arthurian/Templar theme. You're right, I may need to simplify it a bit, and possibly also make it a bit shorter. Still, great stuff. Thanks for showing it to me.

I would suggest playing around with cross icon, as you might come across a better way to convey what you want than just the straight up symbol.

I have a Chapter, the War Consuls, I wanted to thematically tie to the tumultuous period the Roman Empire underwent in the centuries following everyone's favorite Caesar. What I did for their symbol was to take the Emperor Constantine's device, the Chi-Rho, and modified it to take letters from the Chapter's High Gothic name, the Consuli Bellum, and ended up with the . . . I don't know Chi-Beta, I guess it would be called. It's simple, it isn't immediately recognizable, and it's thematic.

You may be able to do the same. Mess around with the symbol. Add other iconography, or combine. Make it simple. Make it direct.

That's a really clever symbol. I assume that looks like the chi-rho but reflected and rotated 180 degrees. I highly doubt I'll be able to work in that amount of meaning into my symbol, but I get what you're driving at. Thank you.

Sir Perfluous, if you are unsure of details in the lore, feel free to either ask in the Liber Surgery or to ask here instead. You've got some strong ideas and a fantastic attitude, so far. We'd be more than happy to fill you in on any details you want to know.

Thank you! I haven't been playing 40k for a great length of time (though I read up on some of the lore before starting), so I'm a bit of a noob, unfortunately. I have pretty good knowledge of all the basic, foundation stuff but then my knowledge becomes a bit more specific. After I decided to play Blood Angels, I never really refreshed the Dark Angels lore. I'm learning things as I encounter them, though, and hopefully soon I will be proficient enough to answer the lore questions of others.