Templar-themed Blood Angels Successor

[Arkangilos]

Here is the thing, though. The codec is flexible enough for your searches and crusades.

 

So take it like this, for example, a company is stationed (and known as a keep or something) Your "Knights" that have proven themselves are given the honor to be a master of a keep. The tenth company (scouts) is the tenth keep, and is responsible for "housing the squires."

 

The squires of the tenth keep are then divided up into crusades or quests, to fight along side the Knights of their respective keeps.

 

The four battle companies are the primary crusading companies. But sometimes they will need more quests, so they make up a questing force based on Knights from various keeps. This can lead to fun dynamics.

 

Each officer makes up the round table, and they decide who will lead quests, which keeps will contribute etc. That is all still within codex compliance, and it still fits the theme.

 

Just some food for thought.

[Sir Perfluous]

Here is the thing, though. The codec is flexible enough for your searches and crusades.

 

So take it like this, for example, a company is stationed (and known as a keep or something) Your "Knights" that have proven themselves are given the honor to be a master of a keep. The tenth company (scouts) is the tenth keep, and is responsible for "housing the squires."

 

The squires of the tenth keep are then divided up into crusades or quests, to fight along side the Knights of their respective keeps.

 

The four battle companies are the primary crusading companies. But sometimes they will need more quests, so they make up a questing force based on Knights from various keeps. This can lead to fun dynamics.

 

Each officer makes up the round table, and they decide who will lead quests, which keeps will contribute etc. That is all still within codex compliance, and it still fits the theme.

 

Just some food for thought.

 

You know, that actually is a pretty good idea. I hadn't considered the possibility that a crusading force be chosen like a sort of Space Marine Pick & Mix for certain aims, and I like the keeps. I'll definitely feast on that thought food, thanks.

 

Conn, I'm not overly familiar with the IA format, but I will investigate and probably attempt something like what you suggested eventually. Getting the doctrine, organisation, beliefs etc as the bones of the chapter then building the rest of the detail up around that would mean that I don't get fixated on a cool idea or name then try to build the whole backstory to that thing and justify its role working backwards, which has caused, I think, most of my problems up to now.

[Conn Eremon]

Getting the doctrine, organisation, beliefs etc as the bones of the chapter then building the rest of the detail up around that would mean that I don't get fixated on a cool idea or name then try to build the whole backstory to that thing and justify its role working backwards, which has caused, I think, most of my problems up to now.

Precisely why I offered the advice. Working from the ground up both allows for the ideas to grow from a more solid base and might also make it easier to educate you on various aspects of the lore as we move on.

 

I'm not sure if there are any old Index Astartes available anymore, the source material may be discontinued. However, the vast majority of Chapter articles in this forum follow the template, so it shouldn't be difficult to get familiar with it.

 

The general gist of it is broken down into the following categories: Origins, Later History, Home World, Beliefs, Combat Doctrine, Organization, Gene-seed, and Battle-cry.

 

I would make an outline for each one of those. Maybe the five things you most want under each category, broken down into basic language, one or two sentences each.

 

From there, we can all start from the top, and go through each point.

[Olis]

To further help with format of your article - I suggest popping over to have a look-see at my Red Sentinels (no, that's not a shameless plug ;) ). It's a the same format that is used for the Brotherhood of Angels event in the Dark Angels subforum, so it's not a bad place to start.

 

(And if you would like to pinch the BBCode stuff, just quote the original post and edit out my material ready to put yours in.)

[Sir Perfluous]

I'm still working on the IA stuff, the reason it's taking so long is that I'm waiting to see what develops on the Grail Wardens thread, because it's requiring me to update some stuff as we go. For now, though, I have a redone draft of the chapter organisation for approval. It's more or less as Arkangilos suggested, but with a few alterations. It does deviate slightly from the Codex, but in no greater a way than most canonical chapters do, so it should be fine (right?).

The chapter is divided into companies, as in a codex chapter, though the "companies" are called Keeps (I liked the name! This could be a title or they might inhabit an actual keep, each possibly spread out a bit across an area of space). The Keeps are named, not numerically, but according to something else flavourful that is, at present, eluding me. The Death Company is stationed in the Black Keep. Each keep is headed up by a Lord Knight (the captain) and is composed of several Knights (sergeants) and their "men", who need a name, possibly a different one for different units. Each Lord Knight has a place on the Council of Avalon, where they meet to discuss various knightly and quest-related things. Others who have a seat on the Council are the Chief Librarian and high-ranking priests. I'm considering actually not having a Chapter Master and instead having the council be the Chapter being the sole governing body of the Chapter, but they'd probably need someone to preside over everything.

The only slight deviations from the Codex come with the Crusades. When the Council gets a lead on the possible location, or of a clue to the location, of the Grail, they might announce a Crusade. The exact composition of the Crusade is taken from a variety of different Keeps and is determined based on the geography, or equivalent, of the Crusade's mission and the enemies likely to be faced. A Lord Knight is chosen to lead the Crusade, and a respected Knight of his Keep chosen to fill his position whilst he is away, permanently if the Lord should die. The rest of the Keep remains to do standard Battle Company things. I don't know if this is what standard Chapters do anyway, but I hope I've managed to put a spin on it.

There are slight deviations, but they are slight, and based more or less exactly off what Arkangilos suggested. And there are always going to be slight differences for my chapter because their First Keep (or awesome equivalent name) is in stasis underground!

I've tried to rename things where possible to capture the themes of the chapter, as opposed to changing the actual build. I thought that might be more agreeable.

[Skalpynock]

Regarding the naming of Keeps, may I suggest heraldic tinctures combined with Codex company colors? That way, let's say, the 4th company would be the Sinople Keep, the 9th the Azure Keep, and so on.

[Sir Perfluous]

Regarding the naming of Keeps, may I suggest heraldic tinctures combined with Codex company colors? That way, let's say, the 4th company would be the Sinople Keep, the 9th the Azure Keep, and so on.

That's a great suggestion, actually, and one I will certainly consider. Thank you!

I'd like to incorporate the (actually surprisingly complex) heraldic system into all of this somewhere, and that could well be the place, especially as it would be displayed on the Marines' armour. The only problem is that many of the words are French, but there's probably a way around that. And the Sable Keep sounds much more ominous than the Black Keep.

[Doctor Perils]

Having the names in french isn't a problem...

I'm still working on the IA stuff, the reason it's taking so long is that I'm waiting to see what develops on the Grail Wardens thread, because it's requiring me to update some stuff as we go. For now, though, I have a redone draft of the chapter organisation for approval. It's more or less as Arkangilos suggested, but with a few alterations. It does deviate slightly from the Codex, but in no greater a way than most canonical chapters do, so it should be fine (right?).

The chapter is divided into companies, as in a codex chapter, though the "companies" are called Keeps (I liked the name! This could be a title or they might inhabit an actual keep, each possibly spread out a bit across an area of space). The Keeps are named, not numerically, but according to something else flavourful that is, at present, eluding me. The Death Company is stationed in the Black Keep. Each keep is headed up by a Lord Knight (the captain) and is composed of several Knights (sergeants) and their "men", who need a name, possibly a different one for different units. Each Lord Knight has a place on the Council of Avalon, where they meet to discuss various knightly and quest-related things. Others who have a seat on the Council are the Chief Librarian and high-ranking priests. I'm considering actually not having a Chapter Master and instead having the council be the Chapter being the sole governing body of the Chapter, but they'd probably need someone to preside over everything.

The only slight deviations from the Codex come with the Crusades. When the Council gets a lead on the possible location, or of a clue to the location, of the Grail, they might announce a Crusade. The exact composition of the Crusade is taken from a variety of different Keeps and is determined based on the geography, or equivalent, of the Crusade's mission and the enemies likely to be faced. A Lord Knight is chosen to lead the Crusade, and a respected Knight of his Keep chosen to fill his position whilst he is away, permanently if the Lord should die. The rest of the Keep remains to do standard Battle Company things. I don't know if this is what standard Chapters do anyway, but I hope I've managed to put a spin on it.

There are slight deviations, but they are slight, and based more or less exactly off what Arkangilos suggested. And there are always going to be slight differences for my chapter because their First Keep (or awesome equivalent name) is in stasis underground!

I've tried to rename things where possible to capture the themes of the chapter, as opposed to changing the actual build. I thought that might be more agreeable.

This organisation should work. In fairness, it's pretty much the codex organisation with different names.

One question: where does the Sanguinary Guard come in, are they the Keep D'or/First Keep ? And when you say high ranking priests, do you mean sang. priests ? chaplains ? techmarines ? a mix ?

[Sir Perfluous]

Having the names in french isn't a problem...

I was worried it would clash with the usual High Gothic theme for the Imperium. If it would be OK, then I have no problem with it.

 

This organisation should work. In fairness, it's pretty much the codex organisation with different names.

That's deliberate - I realise that the amount by which I deviated with my last suggestion may be a bit excessive for a BA successor, so I'm trying to capture the theme through names. I do, however, want the Crusades to be a big deal. Regular wars are carried out as any other chapter would, but the Crusade is a big thing. For one thing, they are much larger than usual incursions (though some have been known to be relatively small when needed) as there is nothing being left to chance by the Council if the Grail is at stake. It is a great honour to be chosen as part of one. Their Crusades function much like the Crusades of the real world did - they're a large incursion by lots of warriors after a holy relic (or land, in the case of the actual Crusades). There have been few enough of them that they can be numbered, much like the real Crusades, though over the millennia that number would probably be a few score high.

 

One question: where does the Sanguinary Guard come in, are they the Keep D'or/First Keep ?

The Sanguinary Guard are definitely First Keep. The requisite for becoming one is pretty extreme in the case of my chapter: you must have been an exceptional hero of the chapter, killed or fatally wounded doing something suitably noble, heroic and/or suicidal, then with enough strength of will to be able to overcome the Grail-induced Black Rage. Then you are dressed in golden armour and entombed beneath Avalon with a death mask over your face.

 

And when you say high ranking priests, do you mean sang. priests ? chaplains ? techmarines ? a mix ?

I left that deliberately vague as I was thinking about that question, but I think probably a mix of the highest-ranking of each. That should swell the Council's ranks nicely.

[Conn Eremon]

When it comes to the languages of 40k, it might be helpful to note that none of them are modern-day languages. Modern languages are the medium through which the information is conveyed, but are not the in-universe languages.

 

Keeping that in mind, High Gothic is a Gothic language variant associated with the upper class, the formal language of the Imperium. We see it as Dog Latin, that is clearly Latin-based but often and readily abused for the sake of sounding cool. Examples are the main Imperial organizations that dominate the Imperium, who all have High Gothic named. The Adeptus Astartes, the Astra Militarum, the Collegia Titanica.

 

Low Gothic is a more base form of Gothic, and is most widely used as the common tongue. Most planetary languages are linguistically tied to Low Gothic, but not all. We see it as our own language, whether it be the English it is written and published in or another that it is translated into. Using the same examples, we have the Space Marines, Imperial Guard and Imperial Titans.

 

As stated, not all planets speak a corrupted Low Gothic, or the deviation is severe enough for there to be few, if any, similarities. This is likely especially true for isolated worlds, or worlds in a less civilized state. When we see these examples, there are different ways they are expressed. Some are simply described as speaking differently enough to be difficult to understand. Others will speak Low Gothic as a separate language to their own, heavily accented and peppered with words or phrases of their own native tongues. The Fenrisians are a big example of this, and they show that once again we use languages we are familiar with to express it. Others, like certain characters in Gaunt's Ghosts, will change the spellings of words to convey a different way of speaking but not so much as to be difficult to understand, like soule instead of soul, and used in the same way we would use you or her or him.

 

It'd be no stretch at all to use French or French-like words to convey the differences in your own planetary languages

[Sir Perfluous]

When it comes to the languages of 40k, it might be helpful to note that none of them are modern-day languages. Modern languages are the medium through which the information is conveyed, but are not the in-universe languages.

 

Keeping that in mind, High Gothic is a Gothic language variant associated with the upper class, the formal language of the Imperium. We see it as Dog Latin, that is clearly Latin-based but often and readily abused for the sake of sounding cool. Examples are the main Imperial organizations that dominate the Imperium, who all have High Gothic named. The Adeptus Astartes, the Astra Militarum, the Collegia Titanica.

 

Low Gothic is a more base form of Gothic, and is most widely used as the common tongue. Most planetary languages are linguistically tied to Low Gothic, but not all. We see it as our own language, whether it be the English it is written and published in or another that it is translated into. Using the same examples, we have the Space Marines, Imperial Guard and Imperial Titans.

 

As stated, not all planets speak a corrupted Low Gothic, or the deviation is severe enough for there to be few, if any, similarities. This is likely especially true for isolated worlds, or worlds in a less civilized state. When we see these examples, there are different ways they are expressed. Some are simply described as speaking differently enough to be difficult to understand. Others will speak Low Gothic as a separate language to their own, heavily accented and peppered with words or phrases of their own native tongues. The Fenrisians are a big example of this, and they show that once again we use languages we are familiar with to express it. Others, like certain characters in Gaunt's Ghosts, will change the spellings of words to convey a different way of speaking but not so much as to be difficult to understand, like soule instead of soul, and used in the same way we would use you or her or him.

 

It'd be no stretch at all to use French or French-like words to convey the differences in your own planetary languages

 

Wow. So I suppose that's the name of the Keeps sorted, then! Thank you to you both!

[Arkangilos]

Did you ever explain why your heroes were put in stasis or buried or whatever? I am interested to know the culture behind that! The only thing I really have any "What?" things about is this

 

killed or fatally wounded doing something suitably noble

 

in regards to your Sanguinary Guard.

 

That is basically what a dreadnaught has to do, and they are basically put into slumber until they are needed (much like you described your guard). 

 

So, are you saying that Dreadnaughts are your Sanguinary Guard? That would definitely be unique, lol. Come to think of it... that would be very unique. Dreadnaughts with death masks protecting your chapter master... 

[Sir Perfluous]

Did you ever explain why your heroes were put in stasis or buried or whatever? I am interested to know the culture behind that!

 

I did mention it before, right at the start, in fact. I'll summarise here: Unless the background fluff changes, drinking from the Grail or the remenant that the chapter have of it (if the stuff developing over on the Grail Wardens thread is implemented fully for my chapter, I'll need to think of a way around that) can cure fatal wounds but induces an intensified Black Rage. It is administered to those who would otherwise have no chance of survival during battle. The Marines who overcome this rage must be of incredible physical and mental strength. At this point, the healing of the Grail puts them in an induced coma-like state whilst they are repaired, where they rest until called upon in times of dire need.

 

The only thing I really have any "What?" things about is this

 

killed or fatally wounded doing something suitably noble

 

in regards to your Sanguinary Guard.

 

That is basically what a dreadnaught has to do, and they are basically put into slumber until they are needed (much like you described your guard).

 

So, are you saying that Dreadnaughts are your Sanguinary Guard? That would definitely be unique, lol. Come to think of it... that would be very unique. Dreadnaughts with death masks protecting your chapter master...

Wait... would that work? Because if so, hell yes am I using that! I hadn't actually considered the Dreadnoughts when I thought of the idea, so now I have to find a way to fit them in. I wouldn't want the entire Keep to consist of dreadnoughts, though if it turns out that that is an idea we can use. Come to think of it, though I'm not 100% clear on how Dreadnoughts are actually kept alive. If you could clear that up for me, that could help with finding a way to fit them in.

[Arkangilos]

Oh, I feel dumb haha. Sorry, I didn't put two and two together xD

 

 

Wait... would that work?

 

I haven't actually seen a "no" on anything like that before. Dreadnoughts are rare beasts indeed, but so are various honor guards. It wouldn't be your whole force, of course. You would still have your veterans and such. 

 

And if having a full unit of them is extreme, maybe you can have regular (as if they were regular, ha) Sanguinary Guard, and have "Heroes of the Grail" that are Sanguinary Guard heroes put into a Dreadnought, and they retained their position among the Sanguinary Guard, so when your CM decides to go onto a battlefield he drops with them? I don't know, I think it's worth playing with. It's shaky, but a cool concept that if done properly would be sweet!

 

To answer the Dreadnought question, they are connected to life support systems, inside a little box, and further connected to the suit through Mind Impulse Units.

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Space_Marine_Dreadnought

[Sir Perfluous]

I've had an idea regarding dreadnoughts.

Firstly, though, if everybody else thinks that Sanguinary Guard Dreadnoughts are a half-sane idea, then consider it done.

 

Secondly, I could make regular dreadnoughts marines whose bodies have been shattered so utterly that there is nothing left for the Grail to restore (run over by a tank, at the centre of an explosion etc.) so the only way they can be saved is by placing their brains in the death machine equivalent of a pickle jar and hooking it up to the dreadnought. To restore the dread to "life", the blood from the Grail is placed in the pickle jar and flows through its veins, keeping it alive just enough for it to kill absolutely anything.

 

I know it's an insane idea, and that it'll probably be flawed enough to be rejected by anyone with a mind that isn't also insane, but it's just an attempt to tie dreadnoughts into the existing fluff for my chapter. Feel free to dismantle and ridicule at will.

[Doctor Perils]

I'm not a fan of that idea myself: it seems like you're trying too hard to tie it in, when there really isn't any need to. If I were you, I'd just stick with normal dreads, and say that your grail can cure all but the most horrific wounds.

 

Also, I just thought that this grail could use a format like the Sanguinary Priests' blood chalices, except that it uses the death companies blood ?

[EesiOh]

I've had an idea regarding dreadnoughts.

Firstly, though, if everybody else thinks that Sanguinary Guard Dreadnoughts are a half-sane idea, then consider it done.

 

Secondly, I could make regular dreadnoughts marines whose bodies have been shattered so utterly that there is nothing left for the Grail to restore (run over by a tank, at the centre of an explosion etc.) so the only way they can be saved is by placing their brains in the death machine equivalent of a pickle jar and hooking it up to the dreadnought. To restore the dread to "life", the blood from the Grail is placed in the pickle jar and flows through its veins, keeping it alive just enough for it to kill absolutely anything.

 

I know it's an insane idea, and that it'll probably be flawed enough to be rejected by anyone with a mind that isn't also insane, but it's just an attempt to tie dreadnoughts into the existing fluff for my chapter. Feel free to dismantle and ridicule at will.

its certainly cool, but as I BA player myself i would stay away from that. Just leave your dreads bee, and tbh I like the idea of Zombinary Guard, but I would say just leave them as they are too. Just remeber though, me and Lord Thorn may be against the idea. But its your fluff. 

[Sir Perfluous]

I'm not a fan of that idea myself: it seems like you're trying too hard to tie it in, when there really isn't any need to. If I were you, I'd just stick with normal dreads, and say that your grail can cure all but the most horrific wounds.

 

Also, I just thought that this grail could use a format like the Sanguinary Priests' blood chalices, except that it uses the death companies blood ?

 

I fully accept that it's a pretty silly notion, the problem is that it's fairly key to both my death company and First Keep that the Grail can actually revive the recently deceased as long as it is administered before total brain death. The dreads are a tough one for me - this was just a solution I thought could work. Mechanically, they're identical to regular dreads.

 

If anybody has any alternative solutions to my conundrum, you're welcome to add your own input!

[Sir Perfluous]

My IA is coming along nicely at the minute, so I thought I'd try out some names, as I'm still having problems with finding one. Most of them follow the pattern of the Knights (adjective), because I like that combination, but there are some variations.

 

-The Knights Exalted

 

-The Knights Irradiant

 

-The Knights Anointed

 

-The Knights Ascendant

 

-The Baptised Sons

 

-The Angels Templar

 

-The Anointers

 

-The Red Wardens

 

-The Knights Penitent

 

-The Sanguine Templars

 

-The Brothers Templar

 

-The Cavaliers

 

-The Red Paladins

 

Feel free to add your own suggestions if all of these are rubbish. I'm personally rather fond of the Knights Ascendant, but what do you think?

[Arkangilos]

Of that list, here are my favorites:

 

-The Baptised Sons

 

-The Anointers

 

-The Red Paladins

 

-The Sanguine Templars (But maybe The Templars Sanguine)

[Doctor Perils]

Of that list, here are my favorites:

 

-The Baptised Sons

 

-The Anointers

 

-The Red Paladins

 

-The Sanguine Templars (But maybe The Templars Sanguine)

Yeah, appart from baptised sons, these are my favourite too: could be "The Anointed". However, the Anointed could also be your first company, the ones that are plunged into the Grail/Cauldron ?

[Arkangilos]

 

Of that list, here are my favorites:

 

-The Baptised Sons

 

-The Anointers

 

-The Red Paladins

 

-The Sanguine Templars (But maybe The Templars Sanguine)

Yeah, appart from baptised sons, these are my favourite too: could be "The Anointed". However, the Anointed could also be your first company, the ones that are plunged into the Grail/Cauldron ?

 

That could also be the Baptized Sons, as that's a big part of baptism. 

[Sir Perfluous]

I like the Annointed for the 1st Keep - the Bapsized Sons sounds too much like a seperate chapter, I think. Thank you for your feedback!

[Sir Perfluous]

So nobody's a fan of Knights Ascendant? I really had my heart set on that one. Gaah! :)

[Olis]

Of the list provided, I think the Cavaliers is the most interesting name. However, the name itself brings certain connotations that probably don't gel well with your intended theme.