Land speeder vengeance any good?

[Steve86]

I have found plenty of info on the darkshoud and the great combos it can make with other units like black knights but what of our other unique speeder? I know that "Gets Hot" is a liability but it seems like the only downside. In a support squadron your overwatching for another unit with a plasma cannon. Thanks in advance brothers :)

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Now, it's a valid choice, due to points decrease, better jink (although this is a vehicle that you don't want to jink with) and synergy with the rest of the RW. It's still not a must take, but before was an outright " don't take".

[Hidicul]

I've had good luck with it since it came out. In fact I fielded two last edition and would be still except that I now field one as a darkshroud this edition.

[MoonPhoenix]

Now, it's a valid choice, due to points decrease, better jink (although this is a vehicle that you don't want to jink with) and synergy with the rest of the RW. It's still not a must take, but before was an outright " don't take".

 

Also range of plasma battery was increased from 24" to 36".

[shabbadoo]

About the only downside the the Vengeance now is that if the plasma battery fires in blast mode there is still the 1-in-6 chance of taking a glancing hit and the weapon not firing at all due to how Gets Hot! works with blast weapons.  The Vengeance is not bad, but it is not super awsome either.  It is a solid enough choice for the points, and I would say it is a decent choice now.  It gets better if it has a little help, such as a Ravenwing Support Squadron with a Darkshroud and three speeders used to sceen the Vengeance to give it a cover save plus Stealth without the Vengeance needing to Jink.  Hunting packs made up of Ravenwing speeders of various types can do bad things to the enemy now.  Just stay out of Assault range.

[Steve86]

Thanks for the info its a great help. Im buying one today off ebay so i needed to know if the vengeance was worth it to build.

 

One thing. Is it possible to use magnets to switch between the shroud and vengeance as i see fit or should i just glue it?

[Master Avoghai]

I've actually bought a turret base in order to swap turrets more easily. Less work than magnet tbh.

[SvenONE]

It was highly overcosted when 6th edition came out, and then was made even worse by the new jink rules forcing snapshots in 7th (meaning it completely lost it's ability to fire its blast template)

 

This unit did see a buff in the new book.  At first glance dropped by 20 points, gained a hull point, the ravenwing rule, and its assault cannon option got cheaper.  But the biggest change came in the weapon profile of the Plasma Battery, which now sits at a comfortable 36”.  While still prone to Gets Hot, at least being glanced to death from small arms fire has become a lot less common.  

 

What’s more is that this unit is now an option in the Land Speeder Support Squadron, which means you can hide it around a bunch of cheaper heavy bolter landspeeders. It's also an option (though running by itself) as the speeder as a part of the Ravenwing Attack Squad.  Even by itself, in a CAD this has become a half decent mobile fire battery.  The Ravenwing rule also helps significantly in its survivability.

 

On the other side of the argument I think there's still a debate about it's increased survivability being a good thing.  I wouldn't get too comfortable with the RW ability.  GW has written the jink rule to be a tradeoff for sure, you don't want to be firing snapshots with it.  You WANT to fire the large blast, so stay at 35" to break up a front line, maybe hope for a scatter back into a blob.  I've been using it a few times so far and I've learned my lesson.  If you're constantly jinking, sure it's surviving, but it most likely isn't killing anything either.  So keep it beyond 30" at all times from anything, sure a Lascannon shot will be a different beast.

 

Unlike the other speeders, it doesn't have Grim Resolve though.  Which means that it won't fire BS2 or full BS overwatch if you're bringing it in a Support Squadron as an Auxillary to a Lion's Blade.

[DeamonQC]

I think it really shine in a RWSS.  Interception a CentStar/Relentless Drop Poding devastators...etc before it can cast invisibility can be game changing.

[Hidicul]

You don't need to magnitize other then the heavy boktwr/assault cannon. Build the dark shrouds statue off the turret and you can slide it on and off to switch between the two.

[Steve86]

It was highly overcosted when 6th edition came out, and then was made even worse by the new jink rules forcing snapshots in 7th (meaning it completely lost it's ability to fire its blast template)

 

This unit did see a buff in the new book. At first glance dropped by 20 points, gained a hull point, the ravenwing rule, and its assault cannon option got cheaper. But the biggest change came in the weapon profile of the Plasma Battery, which now sits at a comfortable 36”. While still prone to Gets Hot, at least being glanced to death from small arms fire has become a lot less common.

 

What’s more is that this unit is now an option in the Land Speeder Support Squadron, which means you can hide it around a bunch of cheaper heavy bolter landspeeders. It's also an option (though running by itself) as the speeder as a part of the Ravenwing Attack Squad. Even by itself, in a CAD this has become a half decent mobile fire battery. The Ravenwing rule also helps significantly in its survivability.

 

On the other side of the argument I think there's still a debate about it's increased survivability being a good thing. I wouldn't get too comfortable with the RW ability. GW has written the jink rule to be a tradeoff for sure, you don't want to be firing snapshots with it. You WANT to fire the large blast, so stay at 35" to break up a front line, maybe hope for a scatter back into a blob. I've been using it a few times so far and I've learned my lesson. If you're constantly jinking, sure it's surviving, but it most likely isn't killing anything either. So keep it beyond 30" at all times from anything, sure a Lascannon shot will be a different beast.

 

Unlike the other speeders, it doesn't have Grim Resolve though. Which means that it won't fire BS2 or full BS overwatch if you're bringing it in a Support Squadron as an Auxillary to a Lion's Blade.

Thanks for the detailed breakdown. It really gives me an idea on how to use it. Its a shame about no grim resolve i didnt catch that

You don't need to magnitize other then the heavy boktwr/assault cannon. Build the dark shrouds statue off the turret and you can slide it on and off to switch between the two.

Well thats good to know. I havent used magnets yet so itll be quite the learning experience

[allagh]

Unlike the other speeders, it doesn't have Grim Resolve though.  Which means that it won't fire BS2 or full BS overwatch if you're bringing it in a Support Squadron as an Auxillary to a Lion's Blade.

 

Incorrect. Whole RWSS have grim resolve rule

[SvenONE]

Incorrect. Whole RWSS have grim resolve rule

Totally right good catch, I didnt have the book in front of me and was going off memory.

[Steve86]

Thanks for clearing that up. On a final not...when fielding a RWSS with a vengeance what would be the best load out for the other speeders?

[SvenONE]

Thanks for clearing that up. On a final not...when fielding a RWSS with a vengeance what would be the best load out for the other speeders?

 

This is the beauty that is the support squadron.  It's gone from being a seldom used entry to, in my opinion, a top tier selection in this book.

 

My go-to fully loaded RWSS is: Darkshroud, 5 Speeders, 3x TML/HB, 2x HB/HB.

 

You can tweak this squad (talking about the whole entry not just my example) however you need it to.  They are one of the few entries in this book that can be built as a core focus of a list, or tailored to compliment a core of your list.  If your Lion's Blade demi company is a bunch of close range drop pod space marines, maybe you need some long ranged firepower to soften up some targets before they all hit the board.  Additionally, if you know you need some anti-horde, giving them heavy flamers and roasting a bunch of charging boys/gaunts, have at it.  The LSV makes a great addition as I said earlier, now that you can hide it within the squad (something I always wanted!).

 

The Darkshroud is also great though presents some rule conundrums as far as how you treat the Shrouded of the Darkshroud confering to the squad, OR the Stealth provided by the Darkshroud onto the speeders, then being passed back onto the Darkshroud, there's also the matter of the fact that the Darkshroud has scout, yet the other speeders do not, so whether scout is transferred to them is another story as well.  Don't want to turn this into a rules debate, just wanted to warn you.

[Hidicul]

I prefer to put the vengeance in the support squad then park a darkshroud close to or in the middle of it. When terminators come in, putting a large blast plasma on them is extremely nice, then you have the bonus of the other weapons firing at them also. As for the other land speeders, I use TML and heavy bolsters with one flamer, though I might be replacing that with a heavy bolter.

[HandofAnubis]

It is pretty easy to magnatize the Statue and the Plasma cannons of the battery. I have two that I have magnetized so I can field them both as a Darkshroud or a LS Vengeance.  I used three points on the turret to magnatize and switch between the two options. You can also magnatize the turret  up front for HB or AC options. Easily accomplished.

[aura_enchanted]

its a good little gun and careful deployment of it can make it brutally effective, i guess my only gripe with it is that its a ravenwing weapon, fielding it without a significant amount of ravenwing field assets really is starving its potential and it feels out of place in those non ravenwing forces.

[Steve86]

 

 

Thanks for clearing that up. On a final not...when fielding a RWSS with a vengeance what would be the best load out for the other speeders?

This is the beauty that is the support squadron. It's gone from being a seldom used entry to, in my opinion, a top tier selection in this book.

 

My go-to fully loaded RWSS is: Darkshroud, 5 Speeders, 3x TML/HB, 2x HB/HB.

 

You can tweak this squad (talking about the whole entry not just my example) however you need it to. They are one of the few entries in this book that can be built as a core focus of a list, or tailored to compliment a core of your list. If your Lion's Blade demi company is a bunch of close range drop pod space marines, maybe you need some long ranged firepower to soften up some targets before they all hit the board. Additionally, if you know you need some anti-horde, giving them heavy flamers and roasting a bunch of charging boys/gaunts, have at it. The LSV makes a great addition as I said earlier, now that you can hide it within the squad (something I always wanted!).

 

The Darkshroud is also great though presents some rule conundrums as far as how you treat the Shrouded of the Darkshroud confering to the squad, OR the Stealth provided by the Darkshroud onto the speeders, then being passed back onto the Darkshroud, there's also the matter of the fact that the Darkshroud has scout, yet the other speeders do not, so whether scout is transferred to them is another story as well. Don't want to turn this into a rules debate, just wanted to warn you.

HB did seem like a smart move when using the vengeance so i have more than one 36" weapong and honestly who deosnt like missiles :)

[Steve86]

It is pretty easy to magnatize the Statue and the Plasma cannons of the battery. I have two that I have magnetized so I can field them both as a Darkshroud or a LS Vengeance. I used three points on the turret to magnatize and switch between the two options. You can also magnatize the turret up front for HB or AC options. Easily accomplished.

Thanks for the info. Would you happen to know of any videos or pics of the process? it helps me grasp the method

[SvenONE]

I don't know about videos, but honestly I am able to pop the vengeance battery cannons into their holes and they hold by friction (this will wear out in time of course, but i'm just gently putting them in).  The statue I actually use some museum tack to fix it to the top.

 

For magnetizing the statue I would think just glue the magnet to the top of the turret and the other magnet to the bottom of the statue.   As for the Vengeance setup, I'd cut off the "knobs" that come out of the guns and magnetize those, while putting a slightly larger magnet over the holes that receive them.  You might be able to get a perfect magnet to fit inside, but you'd have to put a small plasticard backing in the to keep it from completely falling through.  Honestly I think there's probably less work to magnetizing this than say terminator arms.  Really just depends on magnet size.  

[Steve86]

Thabks. Ive never done magnets so itll be a learning experience

[Master Avoghai]

Or like I've said : just buy a second turret base and swap the turrets

[Steve86]

Sounds like a plan. Ill check bits sites for the parts ill need

[Crazy Jay]

I just bought my first dark shroud/Vengence and I use say that is the hardest model I've put together so far. I modeled it for the DS because I'll always field them put my god did it have a lot of tiny pieces. Glad it's put together but now comes the painting. Wish me luck.