Lore question on pods

[21stPrimarch]

So I play War Convocation. I went all in when it came out, not because of how broken people said it was (I find the way I run it, it's a step below top tier), but because it was the coolest thing I have ever seen on a tabletop, just beautiful, makes perfect sense Lore wise, and gives units no one would ever run a chance to shine. Ruststalkers and Infiltraters? Normally meh, in War Convocation required and useful! So anyway, on to my question. We all know of the advent of Dantes Discount Drop Pod Emporium being the linchpin to this armies success. But I feel as though Lore wise, it makes no sense. With this army, when you don't take pods, you either crush a lot of lists, or die spectacularly to Eldar, Tau, and Battle company. I can't find a tier to play on that doesn't beat me senseless or ruin my opponents day. But I can't bring myself to take pods and ruin my immersion. My question at last, is does anyone have ANY Lore that supports the taking of drop pods with Adeptus Mechanicus?

[Frater Cornelius]

Well, guess who invented or a least had a major hand in creating Pods? I think the AdMech is entitled to use what they make on a regular basis. There is loads of instances of AdMech using equipment that is usually used by another faction.

If that fails, just a build a model that resembles a Pod but has an AdMech specific look and call it the Super AdMech Pod or something.

[21stPrimarch]

Indeed they were the creators of any imperial vehicle or weapon practically. I have read almost everything published by Black Library in the past 10 years or so, and yet nothing indicates they would use a space marines vehicle, if anything they find designs favored by the Astartes crude and basic. I had considered doing what you said about making something unique for them, however the Lore drives me in this hobby, and I don't like straying without precedent from lore. It's not a lack of creativity, it's me being crazy adherent to the stories for my own experience's sake. You said they use other vehicles often? Can you point me in the direction where you read that? That's would be fantastic if you could, thank you very much for the reply either way!

Frankie

[Leman Russ SW]

If i remember correctly the fluff on pods is only a Space Marine in armour would be able to survive the extreme pressures involved in a drop pod assault.  I have seen people use drill models to represent pod for Mech instead.

[Frater Cornelius]

The only SM vehicle that the AdMech does not use is the Land Raider, since it has been decreed by Big E that SM should be the only ones using one, IIRC.

[Toxichobbit]

I recall reading somewhere the same thing that is stated above, that non-Astartes cannot use Drop Pods as the pressures of descent and impact would kill them. I can't find an actual quote though, unfortunately. Then again, I also can't find any instance of Mechanicus making use of Drop Pods either.

 

Assuming you go the route of non-Astartes being killed by a Drop Pod descent, you still have a few options in order to make use of the Drop Pod rules. The first and easiest option would be to say your troops, or the Drop Pod itself, are modified to be safe for non-Astartes. For most armies this would sound like a poor excuse, but for Mechanicus it makes perfect sense. They are responsable for the construction of Drop Pods, at least initially (patterns of Drop Pods include Lucius and Phobos, both Forge Worlds) and if the Mechanicus have the means to make something then unless there is a very good reason (they have better Tech already, Imperial decree or physical restrictions on use due to Astartes physiology) then they can make use of it.

 

The other option, if you're willing to put in the effort, is to use the Drop Pod rules but use Termites for the models. This would be a lot more work as it would be a scratch build, but I know for a fact that there are people out there who have done it so I'm sure you could find a tutorial online. Termites (and their larger cousins, Moles and Hellbores) aren't restricted to any particular branch of the Imperium as of the old lore and haven't had any new lore in a long time. They'd be a really fun and unique way to make your force more effective without having to worry about breaking any themes for your army or lore.

 

Edit: I looked up the lore on the Mole and Hellbore, it specifically states they are used by both the Mechanicus and the Guard. So if the Mechanicus are using both Moles and Hellbores, they are almost certainly using Termites for smaller engagements. Lore justification sorted :).

[mmimzie]

Actualy i have different stand ins for my pods. Which lore wise you might like. 

 

Its more or less a drop teleportation platform.

 

Like a drop pod it is launched onto the plant and land very similarly opening up and all that jazz, but it converts the heat and kinetic energy of arrival to power a single teleportation sequence. 

 

Unlike most 40k tech which uses a teleportation device to teleport you to a different place. This Device teleports you too it. It has a few..... target lock on issues and as such doesn't usually  deliver all of the targets to the platform.... where exactly they go... is a mystery that doesn't need to be solved. Thankfully this is easily worked around as about double the needed targets are teleported to the pad, and since the pad can really only ever receive so much mass worth of targets you can rest assure in how many troops will actually make it to the platform.

 

This technology is known as the Hand of the Ominissah as it reaches accross space to deliever the faithful. 

 

It is believed by many that the remaining targets a turned into some sort of data, and that they have been given a blessing.

[jeffersonian000]

Sisters use oversized drop pods that can carry 2-3 squads and their Rhinos. AdMech use landing craft the size of buildings. It's not that they can't have them, it's that per their lore they wouldn't use them anyway.

 

SJ

[Knight of the Raven]

Sisters of battle used to be able to field Dominica-pattern drop pods in the game, and an inquisitor-led strikeforce of celestians deep struck into a Sons of Malice ceremony using drop pods. They weren't described as inconvenienced by the landing.

Are the units you want to use with drop pods as tough as space marines? If they are, there's no reason they wouldn't use drop pods.

[Targetlock]

Okay I'm a bit out of the loop, what blood angels formation give you free drop pods?

 

mmimzie: cool idea, what model do you use to represent the teleporter platform out of curiosity? :)

[Frater Cornelius]

Shield of Baal: Exterminatus gives you an FOC with 1 mandatory HQ, 1 Troop and 1 FA and then gives you 5 additional FA slots. What it means ia that you can get 6 Pods at the cost of 1 Troops choice and 1 HQ. This ain't getting any cheaper than that outside of Unbound.

[Targetlock]

Shield of Baal: Exterminatus gives you an FOC with 1 mandatory HQ, 1 Troop and 1 FA and then gives you 5 additional FA slots. What it means ia that you can get 6 Pods at the cost of 1 Troops choice and 1 HQ. This ain't getting any cheaper than that outside of Unbound.

 

That is an effective option! 

[21stPrimarch]

Thanks for all the responses. It seems as though ad mech pods don't have much basis at all in the lore. Oh wells. So now I pose another topic of discussion. War Convocation face rolls a lot of armies, even on foot. My list today DISMANTLED a Battle Company in pods. They just fed me units. They dropped, I killed them. This has happened numerous times now. However the first time I hit an Eldar player, I hit a brick wall. Same with Tau. The Eldar player beat me mercilessly, I managed to take down the Tau player barely. The army to me seems very polarised. Without pods it can't hang with top competitive lists in Tau and eldar, but dominates anything else . I have an army that either ruins my opponents day (average game length two-three turns), or I have very little statistical chance against. It's beyond frustrating because I don't want my opponents to have bad games because they're blood angels, orks, space wolves, tyranids etc just can't hang with this army. I have a 900 dollar army of ruin your day power that wilts to only two armies after extensive playtesting. Thoughts?

[mmimzie]

Thanks for all the responses. It seems as though ad mech pods don't have much basis at all in the lore. Oh wells. So now I pose another topic of discussion. War Convocation face rolls a lot of armies, even on foot. My list today DISMANTLED a Battle Company in pods. They just fed me units. They dropped, I killed them. This has happened numerous times now. However the first time I hit an Eldar player, I hit a brick wall. Same with Tau. The Eldar player beat me mercilessly, I managed to take down the Tau player barely. The army to me seems very polarised. Without pods it can't hang with top competitive lists in Tau and eldar, but dominates anything else . I have an army that either ruins my opponents day (average game length two-three turns), or I have very little statistical chance against. It's beyond frustrating because I don't want my opponents to have bad games because they're blood angels, orks, space wolves, tyranids etc just can't hang with this army. I have a 900 dollar army of ruin your day power that wilts to only two armies after extensive playtesting. Thoughts?

 

 

So a few things here. If is a tournament than the game is to win and it doesn't matter so bring the pods and win all day.

 

If it's a single game you can always tune list to me fair. Take few vanguards, and more ruststalkers or infiltrators to give your foe a chance. That said war convocation was literally designed to win tournaments, and even with out pods can hang with eldar and tau well enough.

 

War Convocation literally makes you take all the best units possible +Rustalkers and Rangers (IMO). I'd recommend just running skits with cult allies or the other way around if you want to make a fair list. Bring some electro priest. Additionally, Other armies like nids and wolves can make list that can rival yours, but it requires some units spammage. The fact that they aren't taken such list shows they aren't playing to make a stomp everything list, but just playing to have fun.

 

So it's on you to kinda tone down your list if you dont want to go down stomping folks into the ground. Something you can't do with war convocation...

 

 

Though You could make the war convocation fair by playing at a 25% handi cap. Basicly Reducing your point value compared to your foe's by about 25% or what ever number feels kinda care. A good way to judge what fair would be is make your same list, but pay for all the upgrades, and see how big your army ends up being then.

 

All codexs have atleast alittle cheese that can make a strong tournament level list. Some codexs just have easier times than other. It's up to you as a player to bring the right list to the right situation. If its a friendly game try to add some teddy bears to your list. If its a cut throat tournament list than make sure you bring your pocket knife. 

 

Also, please note skit & cult (not counting cohort) win the game on thier first turn or concede the game on the second. Shier isn't a lot of middle ground here as you have soft troops with powerful guns. So, even if you make a fair list the games you win will look like land slides because your first turn will destroy the enemy so fully that it'll look one sided. The opposite is true for loses. 

[Frater Cornelius]

Bro, do not be so narrow-minded. Build yourself a small Martian drop ship that your dudes arrive in and have it follow the rules of a DP, without being a DP. No one asks you to use SM DP in an army. Use a counts-as ;)

[MajorNese]

Bro, do not be so narrow-minded. Build yourself a small Martian drop ship that your dudes arrive in and have it follow the rules of a DP, without being a DP. No one asks you to use SM DP in an army. Use a counts-as

Hmm...either dropping a teleport platform (Stargate fans will know one such thing from the Ori) by just using the bottom parts of the pod and painting the floor to blue-glowing weird tech, or using the restraint harnesses to build a sort of drop container that could theoretically hook under a valkyrie sky talon. There's always a way...

[mmimzie]

Okay I'm a bit out of the loop, what blood angels formation give you free drop pods?

 

mmimzie: cool idea, what model do you use to represent the teleporter platform out of curiosity? :)

 

Oh sorry I missed you this. It's q drop pof but I took out the center console and put a radiobtower with a tiny satellite dish on. Top. I made the drop down ramps into star trek like teleport pads.

[Targetlock]

thats cool

Okay I'm a bit out of the loop, what blood angels formation give you free drop pods?

mmimzie: cool idea, what model do you use to represent the teleporter platform out of curiosity?

Oh sorry I missed you this. It's q drop pof but I took out the center console and put a radiobtower with a tiny satellite dish on. Top. I made the drop down ramps into star trek like teleport pads.

thats cool, any pics? count-as would be the way i would do drop pods, but getting two extra books to do it probably isnt worth the effort i feel.

im building towards a war convocation list but i will most likely only use it against certain opponents. Im guessing free options doesn't include adding extra members to the unit, because otherwise that would be nuts. just curious, because it reminds me of the old plague zombie debate.

[mmimzie]

No pics yet. I'm off at school and its at home

[MithrilForge]

sorry to divert the thread slightly but I'm soooo making that Ad-Mech Drop pod(teleport platform) idea

Mithril

[jeffersonian000]

sorry to divert the thread slightly but I'm soooo making that Ad-Mech Drop pod(teleport platform) idea

Mithril

Yes, this idea has me intrigued enough, too, to look into crafting some Drop Teleport Pads.

SJ

[Targetlock]

I might try something out myself to be honest, some kind of dark mechanicum portal device.

[21stPrimarch]

I want to thank everyone for their responses and advice, it is greatly appreciated. I will be going with my gut and avoiding pods, but as for toning my list down I have some ideas on how to do this. It just requires more purchasing :)

[Frater Cornelius]

sorry to divert the thread slightly but I'm soooo making that Ad-Mech Drop pod(teleport platform) idea

Mithril

Yes, this idea has me intrigued enough, too, to look into crafting some Drop Teleport Pads.

SJ

Reminds me of Necron Nightscythe Invasion Beamer, that just beams units onto the battlefield.

[21stPrimarch]

Quick update. Just finished a game against decision Necrons. It was rough. With everything in range and my best buffs up, I managed to kill 1 Immortal, 1 Tomb Blade, and 1 Destroyer on turn one. He killed a good amount in return, turn two I didn't fair much better, and he killed a ton. The Reanimation protocol buff was near impossible to crack since it often meant a 3+4+++ rerolling 1s. Without the ability to maneuver around cover with pods he just wouldn't die. I find war convo without pods against tournament lists can't hang (with both opponents being roughly the same skill level) but against anything else it crushes it. I am going to probably stop playing it and just use it as a casual non-Convocation list since I can't find an equal strength opponent. Our group advocates the pregame conversation, the games are always more fun when your opponent has a list roughly the same strength as yours. War Convocation without pods seems to be in a limbo between casual and competitive. Anyway these are just my ramblings. I wonder if anyone else has had similar experience.