aura_enchanted Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 the ravenwing race to victory at the NOVA open this year crushing chaos daemons and necrons and all sorts of things beneath them. behold the thunderdome list! http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/09/40k-aaron-aleong-sweeps-nova-open-with-thunderdome.html a basic rundown of his list: – Sammael– DA Chaplain on bike (Fearless – Hatred)– RW Command Squad on Bikes (Ravenwing Banner) – Apothecary– DA Scouts– DA Tacs in Rhino– Wolf Guard Battle Leader on ThunderWolf Mount (Thunderhammer – Stormshield – Runic Armor)– 3x Iron Priest on ThunderWolf Mount– Blood Claws in Rhino– Grey Hunters in Rhino– 3x Biker Librarians (Conclave)– Rune Priest Biker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCSUWolf Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 This is a powerful list, I went 3-3 with almost the same thing at ATC (mine had 2 regular librarians instead of the Conclave and had a Lord instead of a Battle Leader). Once and for all, the boys in Black are better than the dogs in white when you ask about who's the better Biker Codex ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Well, you have to give kudos to the SW part, because the list wasn't DA alone. Still, half of the winning army was DA and that's a win by itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marti350 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I know Aaron Aleong, really nice guy, fun to play against. Glad to see him doing so well with the Dark Angels and Space Wolves. Last time I played him he kicked my DA's teeth in with a Cypher/IG/BA list. I killed/captured Cypher though, so small victories :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 To be fair this list is mostly cashing in on the power of Space Wolves. To me, the biggest part though is that one line that says "3 Biker librarian conclave." That's what makes this whole list work. I'm sure it's there just to roll on Invisibility. I still like seeing Sammael out there, sort of proves to me what I've been saying for awhile that Sammael is better than Khan. I'm sure I couldn't get this list to work for me the same way Aaron did, so kudos to him for making it work. I'll be honest, I'm kind of surprised about the RW banner. With Sammael being I5, you'd think that the banner isn't all the impressive, I guess that extra D6 works in the right circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Extra D6 works extremely well and given its combat orientated the +3 Warlord trait is a gift from the gods the whole thing is multi-charging with a huge footprint. Anyways the invisibility super death star with conclave thing is boring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HsojVvad Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 What little boys do with their plastic toy soldiers in order to win. Cherry pick. What is the point of having allies when all we can do is cherry pick what we want? I thought having weaknesses was part of being in a codex, so this way you take the good with the bad. Now there is no bad for some races, all you can do is take the good when you spend the money. Also title is misleading can a mod please change it, it looks like Dark Angels won the tournament completely when that is not the case, it was Space Wolves with Dark Angel support. Also can't remember if I read it correctly, but didn't this combo loose a match? By that I mean it didn't win everything was just the Overall winner and there was a player or two who actually played better so in fact, Dark Angels didn't win the tourney but in name only by tag team. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marti350 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 No he won all 5 of his games in the invitational and all his games in the open. Sure it is an allied list, but when is the last time you saw DA in an army that wins a major tournament like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 What little boys do with their plastic toy soldiers in order to win. Cherry pick. What is the point of having allies when all we can do is cherry pick what we want? I thought having weaknesses was part of being in a codex, so this way you take the good with the bad. Now there is no bad for some races, all you can do is take the good when you spend the money. Also title is misleading can a mod please change it, it looks like Dark Angels won the tournament completely when that is not the case, it was Space Wolves with Dark Angel support. Also can't remember if I read it correctly, but didn't this combo loose a match? By that I mean it didn't win everything was just the Overall winner and there was a player or two who actually played better so in fact, Dark Angels didn't win the tourney but in name only by tag team. Wow...seven flavors of sourpuss. So, with allies, there are new cross-codex cheese combos, and those combos dominate. Before allies, 1-3 codexes with the best cheese combos dominated. "Take the good with the bad?" So if you're running an invisible jetbike seerstar or serpents of 100 twinlinked shots full of wraithguard, that's so much less broken than allies because, well, the codex you're abusing also has striking scorpions in it? C'mon, man! No matter what the rules are, WAAC powergamerz will twist, abuse, contort, and mine for cheese. Don't blame allies for the state of competitive gaming! I'm not thrilled with the power combos, either, but I believe in allies. I think allies are great for splashing a GK libby and the obligatory five strikes into my guard list as a response to summoning spam. I also like the idea of being able to team up eldar and dark eldar, although I play neither. As much as I hate playing daemons, being able to run them with CSM is a must, and mixing chaos with guard is cool, too. Ork mercs hired by tau? Plausible. Hell, I'd love to be able to take kroot mercs (with a master shaper as HQ) as allies in any of my lists, just for cool factor (also, the idea of 20 kroot with 10 hounds is attractive...take that, conscript blob! Or a sniper squad of 20 for 140 points? Sweet way to kill MCs...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 There's also the fact that the Librarius Conclave was most likely summoning as well, so this is quite the medley (and heresy). I still think it's great the codex is being looked at to be leveraged when it previously had nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caldria Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I could be wrong, but I'm not so sure the conclave (at least with this kind of list) would ever be used for summoning. It just doesn't synergise with the list's gameplan. Going for powers to buff the deathstar and just focusing on keeping those powers running every turn is pretty much their sole job.I think its pretty cool to see a list using these armies win a major tourney though. In all the time I've played this game I've never seen DA do that well, even if it was with wolves (which, despite what people say, IS actually a fairly fluffy combination still - the two chapters have a healthy and competitive respect for each other, they don't hate each other)*heresy* now I just wanna see Dark Eldar do as well, and I'll have seen both my armies who generally don't do well, place high in a major tourney :D *end heresy* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HsojVvad Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 What little boys do with their plastic toy soldiers in order to win. Cherry pick. What is the point of having allies when all we can do is cherry pick what we want? I thought having weaknesses was part of being in a codex, so this way you take the good with the bad. Now there is no bad for some races, all you can do is take the good when you spend the money. Also title is misleading can a mod please change it, it looks like Dark Angels won the tournament completely when that is not the case, it was Space Wolves with Dark Angel support. Also can't remember if I read it correctly, but didn't this combo loose a match? By that I mean it didn't win everything was just the Overall winner and there was a player or two who actually played better so in fact, Dark Angels didn't win the tourney but in name only by tag team. Wow...seven flavors of sourpuss. So, with allies, there are new cross-codex cheese combos, and those combos dominate. Before allies, 1-3 codexes with the best cheese combos dominated. "Take the good with the bad?" So if you're running an invisible jetbike seerstar or serpents of 100 twinlinked shots full of wraithguard, that's so much less broken than allies because, well, the codex you're abusing also has striking scorpions in it? C'mon, man! No matter what the rules are, WAAC powergamerz will twist, abuse, contort, and mine for cheese. Don't blame allies for the state of competitive gaming! I'm not thrilled with the power combos, either, but I believe in allies. I think allies are great for splashing a GK libby and the obligatory five strikes into my guard list as a response to summoning spam. I also like the idea of being able to team up eldar and dark eldar, although I play neither. As much as I hate playing daemons, being able to run them with CSM is a must, and mixing chaos with guard is cool, too. Ork mercs hired by tau? Plausible. Hell, I'd love to be able to take kroot mercs (with a master shaper as HQ) as allies in any of my lists, just for cool factor (also, the idea of 20 kroot with 10 hounds is attractive...take that, conscript blob! Or a sniper squad of 20 for 140 points? Sweet way to kill MCs...) Sour puss? Me? Maybe. :P I am just tired of band wagon jumpers? I would love if this person if he was always a Dark Angel player. If he is, then I take it back, but if he is not, I will stick by my "what little boys..." comment. Too me this band wagon jumping or flavour of the month has ruined part of the way the game is played. So me sour? Yeah I am when it comes to people who play flavour of the month. It's one of the reasons why I don't play no more and just collect. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marti350 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 What little boys do with their plastic toy soldiers in order to win. Cherry pick. What is the point of having allies when all we can do is cherry pick what we want? I thought having weaknesses was part of being in a codex, so this way you take the good with the bad. Now there is no bad for some races, all you can do is take the good when you spend the money. Also title is misleading can a mod please change it, it looks like Dark Angels won the tournament completely when that is not the case, it was Space Wolves with Dark Angel support. Also can't remember if I read it correctly, but didn't this combo loose a match? By that I mean it didn't win everything was just the Overall winner and there was a player or two who actually played better so in fact, Dark Angels didn't win the tourney but in name only by tag team. Wow...seven flavors of sourpuss. So, with allies, there are new cross-codex cheese combos, and those combos dominate. Before allies, 1-3 codexes with the best cheese combos dominated. "Take the good with the bad?" So if you're running an invisible jetbike seerstar or serpents of 100 twinlinked shots full of wraithguard, that's so much less broken than allies because, well, the codex you're abusing also has striking scorpions in it? C'mon, man! No matter what the rules are, WAAC powergamerz will twist, abuse, contort, and mine for cheese. Don't blame allies for the state of competitive gaming! I'm not thrilled with the power combos, either, but I believe in allies. I think allies are great for splashing a GK libby and the obligatory five strikes into my guard list as a response to summoning spam. I also like the idea of being able to team up eldar and dark eldar, although I play neither. As much as I hate playing daemons, being able to run them with CSM is a must, and mixing chaos with guard is cool, too. Ork mercs hired by tau? Plausible. Hell, I'd love to be able to take kroot mercs (with a master shaper as HQ) as allies in any of my lists, just for cool factor (also, the idea of 20 kroot with 10 hounds is attractive...take that, conscript blob! Or a sniper squad of 20 for 140 points? Sweet way to kill MCs...) Sour puss? Me? Maybe. I am just tired of band wagon jumpers? I would love if this person if he was always a Dark Angel player. If he is, then I take it back, but if he is not, I will stick by my "what little boys..." comment. Too me this band wagon jumping or flavour of the month has ruined part of the way the game is played. So me sour? Yeah I am when it comes to people who play flavour of the month. It's one of the reasons why I don't play no more and just collect. Like I said, this guy played at my old shop. He played a couple different armies but he was playing DA well before the new codex dropped. He played ETC with the old DA codex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Sour puss? I don't think so. The thread title sort of more than sets up an expectation to be reading about The Dark Angels laying the smack down. Then we open the thread and see "Iron Priest", "Thunderwolf", etc. in the list. Very misleading. So it is a cherry picked list. I would be more pleased to see a thread with such a title be about a pure Dark Angles list ranking high or even winning using their own tricks and gadgets than to see some sort of "the usual suspects" list. Bad form. sir. Bad form. Might want to change the thread title to be something more accurate, like "The Lion and the Wolf Take Down All-comers at NOVA Open". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanSturrock Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Looks like Sammael was the warlord. So I think it's legit to call this a DA list. Sure, they brought their dogs too, but that's what you do on a hunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 As a Spectator you can appreciate the nuances of how it works and the effort gone into while enjoying watching the game against similar opponents but as a game of 40k its sterile in terms of feel and narrative and a million miles from what sorts of lists turn up in our gaming group. I've read up on some of the battles and they were really close so the guy has done really well in a highly obsessively competitive scene On a personal note are these types of lists / match ups for me well no I have Allies but more to change the flavor of my battles ex:- if I take a conclave its DA which a competitive gamer would simply sneer at "Dude why aren't you taking Iron Hands on Bikes????". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Sour puss? I don't think so. The thread title sort of more than sets up an expectation to be reading about The Dark Angels laying the smack down. Then we open the thread and see "Iron Priest", "Thunderwolf", etc. in the list. Very misleading. So it is a cherry picked list. I would be more pleased to see a thread with such a title be about a pure Dark Angles list ranking high or even winning using their own tricks and gadgets than to see some sort of "the usual suspects" list. Bad form. sir. Bad form. Might want to change the thread title to be something more accurate, like "The Lion and the Wolf Take Down All-comers at NOVA Open". I didn't get the impression that he was sour over the title of the thread, but rather that someone would stoop so low as to take units from multiple codexes in an effort to win a WAAC tourney. As such, yes, I think "sourpuss" is apt... besides, he already conceded the moniker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HsojVvad Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Like I said, this guy played at my old shop. He played a couple different armies but he was playing DA well before the new codex dropped. He played ETC with the old DA codex I didn't see the part he played Dark Angels before. That is a totally different story. :) On a different note, I read that the Open had nerfed the D rules, and Lords of War rules. So this made Deathstars even more powerful. I wonder if the results would have been very different if Lords of Wars and D rules were not nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarbonBased Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 On a different note, I read that the Open had nerfed the D rules, and Lords of War rules. So this made Deathstars even more powerful. I wonder if the results would have been very different if Lords of Wars and D rules were not nerfed. The front line gaming guys were discussing this very point. It's why they chose to allow the super heavies and other things with D weapons (with some moderate nerfs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I read the Article that Reece at Frontline did but I don't get how you cure 1 problem by introducing another Looking deeper into it the Nova missions were stacked in favour of the Deathstars, kill points is always going to favour one big blob. Kill points the way 7th is developing is meaningless. Deathstars v double Lions game mode kill points? I know that's not the full Nova mission but having a good portion of it in that mode well! Then there's the multi source battle Bro stuff - this to be honest is a competition problem at club & gaming group level it falls into the discuss with your opponent what type of game you want and dont be a jerk coz he'll refuse to play you ever again. Then we have Invisibility + the 4+ fnp power from bio with iron hands conclave! Your getting to the point where comps are going to have to make everyone Allies of convenience for the purposes of joining a unit or something even more drastic. Anyways theres something floating around called community comp 40k it looks a pretty drastic solution but given the state the Comp guys are getting themselves into then I can't see how they can go forward without some sort of leveling mechanism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hidicul Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I think the simplest way may be that these tourneys need to ban the use of more then one codex, with the exceptions of inquisition, assassins and the damned, since two of these can't be fielded stand alone and the other shouldn't be. I think allies was the worst thing to happen to 40k. Even restricting it to one codex, most of them can summon in demons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurio Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I was at NOVA, and this was a very tough deathstar used by multiple players. I wouldn't call this a Dark Angel victory. Kill points were a secondary objective that you could get at most 2 points from. One of the things that made this list tough IMO was the liberal (IMO) interpretation of the multi charge rules by the judges. I haven't taken time to study up on the issue, but a member of my club suffered a multi charge contacting his units in both deployment zones and near a board edge. Several of the enemy models moved towards the center of the table to maintain coherency. I am not familiar enough with the multi charge rules to say, but this seemed wrong. (BTW my friend did beat that list, with Blood Angels, so it's not unbeatable). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marti350 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I was at NOVA, and this was a very tough deathstar used by multiple players. I wouldn't call this a Dark Angel victory. Kill points were a secondary objective that you could get at most 2 points from. One of the things that made this list tough IMO was the liberal (IMO) interpretation of the multi charge rules by the judges. I haven't taken time to study up on the issue, but a member of my club suffered a multi charge contacting his units in both deployment zones and near a board edge. Several of the enemy models moved towards the center of the table to maintain coherency. I am not familiar enough with the multi charge rules to say, but this seemed wrong. (BTW my friend did beat that list, with Blood Angels, so it's not unbeatable). What about the multi charge was a liberal interpretation? The rules say you have to maintain coherency so that means you have to string the guys out between two units. You can exploit this against big blobs with two small units of your own by attacking opposite ends and leaving the middle unable to fight because they have to keep a string of guys maintaining coherency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurio Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Like I said I need to study the rules on it, it's just that assaulting multiple directions into multiple units over a 30" front seems a little extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marti350 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Like I said I need to study the rules on it, it's just that assaulting multiple directions into multiple units over a 30" front seems a little extreme. The only real limiter on it is that a model can not move into base to base with a secondary target unless it can't reach any unengaged models in the primary target. This actually makes it easier to multicharge if your unit is spread out over 30" because it means once the first model is in base to base with the primary unit the other end of the line gets to engage the secondary target because there is no way they could reach the primary with their charge move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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