CommissarHughes Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I've been going over this topic in my mind dozens of times over and I just can't find a way they can be more efficient than other choices at the same points. Psykers, priests, and company command squads can give re-rolls, throw significantly more dice, and sync better and multiply the effectiveness of each other. So where we have choices that sync well enough to multiply their effectiveness, where can a commissar fit in? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313405-is-there-a-place-for-commissars-in-this-codex/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenricusTyranicus Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I've been having this same problem too. Only way I can really think to use them is to attach them to a squad behind an aegis defense line, with a senior officer nearby to order them to stand up after going to ground. Yay for usefulness..... Alternatively, you can use them to guarantee orders passing. Still very situational. I am running one in my list tomorrow, purely for rule of cool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313405-is-there-a-place-for-commissars-in-this-codex/#findComment-4166375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greycat Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Commissar Yarrick is where its at. All other commissars are pretty pointless because priests make units fearless instead of stubborn with a re-roll. Priests also can smash for ap2 whereas you have to buy a commissar a powerfist or axe or something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313405-is-there-a-place-for-commissars-in-this-codex/#findComment-4166385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truesight Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 The Priest is superior, but the commissar is not useless. If a commissar is cooler to you then take it, he'll do his job by keeping your troops from running while having a fringe benefit of making orders more reliable and allowing them to go to ground. You pay a small price in effectiveness for style. Also the Commissar doesn't give stubborn with a re-roll, it's stubborn with a choice to simply pass the test if you fail. Much more effective. I actually like Commissars best in conscript blobs. The only thing they ever shoot is 3 point hive scum, and it allows some flexibility that the priest does not. A Priest blob cannot retreat from a close combat where it cannot hurt the enemy. A Commissar blob can. This is a lifesaver when say, a dreadnought charges your 40 man squad, and you really need to tie up that knight. It also allows your little 20 man blobs to go to ground in cover, helping them stay alive and making your opponent think hard about whether to use any shooting to dislodge that 85 point objective secured unit. They don't reroll to hit or wound, but honestly, if my conscripts kill no one and die to a man, they still have served their purpose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313405-is-there-a-place-for-commissars-in-this-codex/#findComment-4166406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Commissars are unfortunately sidelined a little in this codex. The addition of the new priests gives them lots of use and the commissars are unchanged in use and arguably worse than their traditional form as there's a chance your opponent can pick the model to remove. As True said the best use for them is in a conscript squad where it's not such an issue. Hopefully in the next codex GW realises this and makes changes even if it's just a price drop? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313405-is-there-a-place-for-commissars-in-this-codex/#findComment-4166444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrkul Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I've aleays been leary of putting Commissars in conscript blobs due to challenges. I think if GW gave theim Voice of Command, (and Lord Commissars Senior officer) you'd see a lot more use out of both. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313405-is-there-a-place-for-commissars-in-this-codex/#findComment-4166477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Would defeat the purpose of Company Command Squads that way, though. As others have said, Commissars allow you to Go To Ground, which is pretty handy in an Objective game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313405-is-there-a-place-for-commissars-in-this-codex/#findComment-4166497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I only put them in Conscript blob and even then not too often. Their improved leadership over priests helps the PCS, who runs after the conscripts, issue orders. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313405-is-there-a-place-for-commissars-in-this-codex/#findComment-4166642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallarn Commander Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Yes, I also prefer priests to comissars. However, since I often run infantry-heavy lists I find that I run out of priests (we only get 3 after all) before I run out of blobs. So I often end up putting my priests in my conscript blobs and my commies into my infantry platoons. Plus, as many people have noted, it's nice to keep some commissars around because they're so characterful (and, if the enemy gets into melee with my platoons and challeges me, I can usually send at least 3 sergeants forward to accept challenges before Commissar Abra, Commissar Guderian, or Commissar Mannerheim have to get involved in the challenge). Tallarn Commander, IG, "We are many. They are few." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313405-is-there-a-place-for-commissars-in-this-codex/#findComment-4166790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truesight Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Welcome Tallarn Commander. The Commissariat will no doubt be here soon to request pictures of your glorious blobs. Enjoy your stay. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313405-is-there-a-place-for-commissars-in-this-codex/#findComment-4166795 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Commissars are unfortunately sidelined a little in this codex. The addition of the new priests gives them lots of use and the commissars are unchanged in use and arguably worse than their traditional form as there's a chance your opponent can pick the model to remove. As True said the best use for them is in a conscript squad where it's not such an issue. Hopefully in the next codex GW realises this and makes changes even if it's just a price drop? Not sidelined, that certain Tankdriver you use every battle right? He is from Catachan and stil use that "oops" thing in regards to Commisars from when they had there own codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313405-is-there-a-place-for-commissars-in-this-codex/#findComment-4166847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Would defeat the purpose of Company Command Squads that way, though. As others have said, Commissars allow you to Go To Ground, which is pretty handy in an Objective game. That gives an idea, though: you can take Commissars instead of PCS and Lord Commissars instead of CCS. The Commissars are more individual power characters (think SM Captains) while CCS/PCS would be more army-buffing or role specific (like weapons, etc...) Would open up some options both gameplay and fluff wise.... Sgt: "Say? Where's the commander at?" <Looks at Command Tent> BLAM! <Commissar exits command tent, holstering bolt pistol> Commissar: "Sgt, gather your men. I have assumed command of your unit." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313405-is-there-a-place-for-commissars-in-this-codex/#findComment-4167149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothical Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 The main advantage of a Commissar is that you can still Go to Ground whilst getting much better Leadership (9) for your blob/Conscripts to help with things like Orders, Stubborn to prevent that Ld from being degraded once people start dying, and then a 2/3 chance of killing some random grunt (rather than a more valuable model) to automatically pass the test. I am not a huge fan of Priests in general. I feel their prayers are not really suited for Guardsmen (Sisters of Battle and Inquisitors have native Priest access that benefit far, far more) - they have to be passed on Ld7 so cannot really be relied upon if you are building a strategy around combat platoons/conscripts. Commissars just look and feel better (imo)! I wouldn't mind shoving one in a Bullgryn unit though! With Maul and Shield they can be ridiculously tough/brutal if you get the Prayers off, you are unlikely to want to Go to Ground, and Fearless helps their Ld6/7 once you're in combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313405-is-there-a-place-for-commissars-in-this-codex/#findComment-4167791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zectz Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Commissars synergize well with army lists taking advantage of the 'Get back in the fight!' order. If you are the kind of person who prefers taking squads of veterans over platoons, you can take this even further with camo cloaks/snare mines. Having a good firebase with a few vet squads with autocannon/x3 sniper for example and a Lord Commissar in the area for leadership bubble, or even just a single vet squad with the mentioned loaded and a single basic Commissar. Both these ideas give the units high leadership with the ability to go to ground for 5+ cover in the open (higher in actual cover) and able to act as normal each turn by using 'Get back in the fight!'. This also works with a platoon blob behind an aegis defence line & Commissar attached. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313405-is-there-a-place-for-commissars-in-this-codex/#findComment-4168334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallarn Commander Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Truesight, thanks for the welcome. I tossed some photos of my army in the gallery: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/gallery/image/165638-commissar-guderian-and-blue-platoon-2015nova/ Yes, lord commies can be quite good for all the reasons you all mention. This weekend I brought my Tallarns to a big tournament with 8 games (the NOVA Open in northern Virginia here in the US). I brought a lord commissar because: -a vanilla lord commissar was cheaper than Yarrick and I was short on points -taking a vanilla lord commissar makes every single one of the IG warlord traits worthwhile if you stick the lord commissar in a platoon blob. I’m often unimpressed with a warlord CCS with the relentless or preferred enemy traits. But during the tournament, my warlord trait was useful regardless of the result on the D6 table. Who doesn’t want a blob with relentless or preferred enemy. I still took a CCS as a source of senior officer orders (although in at least 4 of my games my commie lord also had the senior officer trait). I was pretty impressed with Lord Commissar Guderian’s performance. Actually, I found him at least as useful than Yarrick and much cheaper. Tallarn Commander, IG, “We are many. They are few.” Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313405-is-there-a-place-for-commissars-in-this-codex/#findComment-4168478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Welcome to the B&C Tallarn, I see you've started paying the enlistment fee already ;) I think I'll look into getting my Lord Commissar on to the table next game my Guard get :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313405-is-there-a-place-for-commissars-in-this-codex/#findComment-4168496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Talarian Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Hello brothers, Newbie question here. But I notice many of you indicating that the commissar is good for "get back in the fight" once and if you issue your men to go to ground. I don't have the codex in front of me but I didn't think that the commissar can issue orders? Or, was it simply implied that it would be easier to order them to get back into the fight as they would have a higher LD? Cheers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313405-is-there-a-place-for-commissars-in-this-codex/#findComment-4168550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Yes, it's not that the commissar can give the order but that the unit can be issued it and with his Ld value better at responding too :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313405-is-there-a-place-for-commissars-in-this-codex/#findComment-4168578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamansky Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Yes, lord commies can be quite good for all the reasons you all mention. This weekend I brought my Tallarns to a big tournament with 8 games (the NOVA Open in northern Virginia here in the US). I brought a lord commissar because: -a vanilla lord commissar was cheaper than Yarrick and I was short on points -taking a vanilla lord commissar makes every single one of the IG warlord traits worthwhile if you stick the lord commissar in a platoon blob. I’m often unimpressed with a warlord CCS with the relentless or preferred enemy traits. But during the tournament, my warlord trait was useful regardless of the result on the D6 table. Who doesn’t want a blob with relentless or preferred enemy. I still took a CCS as a source of senior officer orders (although in at least 4 of my games my commie lord also had the senior officer trait). I was pretty impressed with Lord Commissar Guderian’s performance. Actually, I found him at least as useful than Yarrick and much cheaper. I wonder how did you make your Lord Comissar be your warlord having Senior officer in CCS? Isn't that peohibited by Chain of command rule? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313405-is-there-a-place-for-commissars-in-this-codex/#findComment-4168935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarHughes Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 Truesight, thanks for the welcome. I tossed some photos of my army in the gallery: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/gallery/image/165638-commissar-guderian-and-blue-platoon-2015nova/ Yes, lord commies can be quite good for all the reasons you all mention. This weekend I brought my Tallarns to a big tournament with 8 games (the NOVA Open in northern Virginia here in the US). I brought a lord commissar because: -a vanilla lord commissar was cheaper than Yarrick and I was short on points -taking a vanilla lord commissar makes every single one of the IG warlord traits worthwhile if you stick the lord commissar in a platoon blob. I’m often unimpressed with a warlord CCS with the relentless or preferred enemy traits. But during the tournament, my warlord trait was useful regardless of the result on the D6 table. Who doesn’t want a blob with relentless or preferred enemy. I still took a CCS as a source of senior officer orders (although in at least 4 of my games my commie lord also had the senior officer trait). I was pretty impressed with Lord Commissar Guderian’s performance. Actually, I found him at least as useful than Yarrick and much cheaper. Tallarn Commander, IG, “We are many. They are few.” You've made two critical errors that are very important in a competitive setting because they make you far more powerful than you should be. 1: as Shamansky mentioned, the chain of command rule means that if you have a model in your army with the senior officer special rule (like company commanders, Creed, and Straken) then no lord commissar may be the warlord. Yaric has both senior officer and chain of command special rules, I don't know if this was resolved one way or another (perhaps someone on that bolter and chainsword site knows) 2: The warlord traits on the guard table give voice of command to lord commissars, not senior officer. That means he can only issue one order a turn on the regular orders. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313405-is-there-a-place-for-commissars-in-this-codex/#findComment-4169210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallarn Commander Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Shamansky and Hughes, You are both correct, I had forgotten about the "chain of command rule." Thank you for catching my mistake! Fortunately, at the tournament, I don't think my illegal lord commissar really mattered in terms of competitiveness though. I did win 3 out of 8 games, but my victory was usually due to my Russes, chiplasmavets, wyverns, conscripts, and ogryns. I was pretty unimpressed with my 45-trooper bazooka/plasma blob with attached commie lord. My platoon blob did excel in 1 of my 3 victories--but in that game (as in about half my games) I forgot to use my commissar warlord's illegal trait. At any, rate, I'll go back to using Yarrick for the reasons you both mention. Thanks! Tallarn Commander Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313405-is-there-a-place-for-commissars-in-this-codex/#findComment-4169305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamansky Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Shamansky and Hughes, You are both correct, I had forgotten about the "chain of command rule." Thank you for catching my mistake! Fortunately, at the tournament, I don't think my illegal lord commissar really mattered in terms of competitiveness though. I did win 3 out of 8 games, but my victory was usually due to my Russes, chiplasmavets, wyverns, conscripts, and ogryns. I was pretty unimpressed with my 45-trooper bazooka/plasma blob with attached commie lord. My platoon blob did excel in 1 of my 3 victories--but in that game (as in about half my games) I forgot to use my commissar warlord's illegal trait. At any, rate, I'll go back to using Yarrick for the reasons you both mention. Thanks! Tallarn Commander May the Emperor grant you redemption Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313405-is-there-a-place-for-commissars-in-this-codex/#findComment-4169516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 As long as you learn, adapt and improve and put that into use slaying His enemies I'm sure he'll be ok with it ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313405-is-there-a-place-for-commissars-in-this-codex/#findComment-4169761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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