Crazy Jay Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Does an Interigator Chaplain in terminator armor have to buy a power weapon just to give up for a storm shield? I'm pretty sure I know what the answer is going to be and I'm not going to like it but I want to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 interrogators cant but storm shields, only a company master can buy one thats regardless of the armor he is wearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Jay Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 Why would interrogator chaplains not be able to take a storm shield. It says if they are in terminator armor, the can take items from the terminator weapon, special issue war gear and relic lists. Also to get terminator armor it doesn't say give up all weapons, just the bolt pistol and grenades. The crux of my post was could I give up the crozius for a storm shield or do I have to buy a power weapon first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaScotius Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I'd have to agree with aura_enchanted and say that Interrogator Chaplains in Terminator Armour cannot have Storm Shields. When you purchase Terminator Armour, you give up your rights to access the Melee Weapons section of the Armoury, so you cannot purchase a Power Weapon. He Chaplain himself does not have a Power Weapon on his profile; he has a Crozius Arcanum (Functionally identical to a Power Maul, but it's not a "Power Weapon" for the purposes of exchanging it for a Storm Shield). As he doesn't have a Power Weapon (or the means to access one, as he's in Terminator Armour), he doesn't have one to exchange in order to obtain the Storm Shield. At the end of the day though, he's already got a 4++, so it's not a major blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith776 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 The Crozius is not a power weapon, and an IC can't buy power weapons when taking Terminator armour so can't get the storm shield. Otherwise yes It can buy a power weapon and then swap it for a storm shield from what I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Jay Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 He has the means to purchase 1 before gaining the terminator armor. I know I'm knit picking here and I don't mean to be argumentative but it feels like the following should be legal. 1. Purchase power weapon 2. Purchase terminator armor/storm bolter 2.5. Lose bolt pistol, krak and frag grenades 3. Replace storm bolter for thunder hammer 4. Replace power weapon with storm shield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaScotius Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 You're now getting into the realms of sequential upgrades; it's a slippery slope, which in some Codices can lead to some really nasty abuses. There are a whole host of debates around that particular issue, and you may be better served in a dedicated rules forum for your answer over that issue. Even within our own Codex, ordering upgrades would allow you to take an Assault Cannon on the Deathwing Apothecary; take the Assault Cannon on the Deathwing Terminator and then upgrade him to the Apothecary... It doesn't seem like that was what was intended when the rules were written. Equally, you could then take a Grav Gun on a regular Power Armoured Apothecary by using the same means; buy the weapon, then the model upgrade. It makes no sense from a background perspective either; an Apothecary carries a Bolt Pistol to administer the Emperor's Mercy on a critically wounded battle brother - a quick death to prevent unnecessary suffering. Imagine if the Emperor's Mercy was instead administered with a Grav Gun; your critically wounded Dark Angel doesn't get his swift merciful death at the hands of a skilled clinician who will then harvest the Geneseed - he gets crushed to a pulp inside his own armour. Yuck. As for your Chaplain - assuming that sequential upgrading is legal (and you know my feelings on the matter); you'd need to swap your Crozius Arcanum to purchase the Power Weapon as you need to keep the Bolt Pistol to swap for the Terminator Armour. And in reality, what self respecting Interrogator Chaplain. Would willingly give up his 'sacred staff of office'? However, if you've already done a really awesome Interrogator Chaplain conversion, then you have to consider the 'Rule of Cool' factor, as I can see why you would then want to run him. Ultimately it all comes down to whether your opponent is ok with it; it's not a gamebreakingly powerful combination, and if you had the model converted, I wouldn't have an issue with you fielding him. If you went to a tournament with that model though... Just reherse all of your arguments as to why it's legal before you go, as there will do doubt be some pernickety rules lawyers there somewhere!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I don't think it's that linear to just buy gear on the order you want to get what you want. Also doesn't make sense (despite sense having poor bearing on rules) that you need to buy a power weapon just for having to buy a storm shield. It's very odd and counter-intuitive to swap weapons on the same arm twice to just get what you want. If we look at the Librarian, we can see that he is not allowed to swap his force weapon for any other weapon or equip a power weapon or any other melee weapon. It appears they ant to restrict the chaplain to that same setup, ie, those characters have to stick with the weapon of office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Jay Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 The main reason for the question is that I'm going to a tournament and I don't want to be that guy. However I'm trying to be as WYSIWYG as possible and I don't own an Int Chaplain in terminator armor. I do have a Belial with TH/SS and figured it would be acceptable counts as so I wrote up my list. Now the legality of my list is biting me and now I'm scrambling to figure it out. I was really hoping that all would have been well but unfortunately that is not my luck. I may see how to shift points and just bring Belial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Yeah it is strange that they've sort of allowed that loophole of purchasing the power fist in order to exchange it later. The Succubus had a similar situation with her archite glaive which, though equally convoluted means allowed her to bring a pistol in addition to the glaive. It was later FAQed, not sure if that may ultimately be the case here, but just saying it for the sake of noting that there is a precedent to correct the odd language. I agree though, spending 25+ for a slightly better invuln is kinda meh. I'd say just spend those 25 points on giving all of the terms around you SS/TH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twopounder Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 The IC was never really intended to carry a storm shield. And while you might be able to BS your way into it during some games, it goes against the spirit of the rules and would probably lead to disqualification during a tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 cause sequential upgrades are naff thats why, currently the only way to acheieve such results is to play standard codex marines and buy the sheidl eternal, but then you dont get the interrogator statline your stuck with a standard chaplain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Jay Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 I don't intend to BS anyone. I caught my own mistake before the tournament and was hoping I had found a legal way of doing it. I didn't and now I'm altering my list but I may just have to do a liberal counts as for my chaplain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twopounder Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I don't intend to BS anyone. I caught my own mistake before the tournament and was hoping I had found a legal way of doing it. I didn't and now I'm altering my list but I may just have to do a liberal counts as for my chaplain. Just say it's his iron halo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 "An Interrogator-Chaplain in Terminator armour may take items from the Terminator Weapons, Special Issue Wargear and/or Relics of Caliban lists." Hence, he may not take items from the melee weapons list, and therefore doesn't have access to the prerequisite item to swap for the storm shield. If you want to argue sequencing, then after he takes a power weapon, then takes terminator armor, but before he swaps the power weapon for a storm shield, the power weapon becomes illegal because the IC in TDA does not have access to the melee weapons list. It does not matter that it was a legal choice when you made it, it's illegal now. If anything, taking the power weapon closes off access to TDA, since choosing TDA "after" choosing a power weapon would create an illegal combination, however temporarily. You run into a stop sign before you ever get to the step of swapping for the storm shield. To be honest, though...I've gone from always taking an IC as my second HQ (to lead my knights) to never taking one. Knights no longer have the one-use smite mode, so a single round of whiffed attacks is no longer auto-lose. Interromancy, in spite of being useless if your libby is stuck in, is cool enough that I'll be taking libbies over chappies at every opportunity. So this debate is moot to me. If I want a melee character, it's a master, if support, it's a libby (although I did have a libby strike down a canoness last weekend) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 "An Interrogator-Chaplain in Terminator armour may take items from the Terminator Weapons, Special Issue Wargear and/or Relics of Caliban lists." Hence, he may not take items from the melee weapons list, and therefore doesn't have access to the prerequisite item to swap for the storm shield. If you want to argue sequencing, then after he takes a power weapon, then takes terminator armor, but before he swaps the power weapon for a storm shield, the power weapon becomes illegal because the IC in TDA does not have access to the melee weapons list. It does not matter that it was a legal choice when you made it, it's illegal now. If anything, taking the power weapon closes off access to TDA, since choosing TDA "after" choosing a power weapon would create an illegal combination, however temporarily. You run into a stop sign before you ever get to the step of swapping for the storm shield. To be honest, though...I've gone from always taking an IC as my second HQ (to lead my knights) to never taking one. Knights no longer have the one-use smite mode, so a single round of whiffed attacks is no longer auto-lose. Interromancy, in spite of being useless if your libby is stuck in, is cool enough that I'll be taking libbies over chappies at every opportunity. So this debate is moot to me. If I want a melee character, it's a master, if support, it's a libby (although I did have a libby strike down a canoness last weekend) the techmarine is also an interesting option if you run him with veterans or terminators, he has artificers armor as a freebie and can buy a combat shield and servo harness for about a rhino so your looking at a 2+ 6++ guy with 2 wounds, two power fists, a twin linked plasma pistol, and a flamer. thats not awful, heck he could be a great way to go anti-tarpit on your death knights since he has wall of death for things like gretchin if they get to charge in. its an interesting concept, heck he could go with company veterans and go chocolate shoppe patrolin with drop plasmas and derp strike someone really hard. maybe even see the next turn and charge in and rip a chimera open Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Jay Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 I bring Librarians against equal and less psychic armies and chaplains when I don't know my opponent or psychic heavy armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavageSam11 Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Can you have an int chaplain in TDA with a power fist and power claw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Can you have an int chaplain in TDA with a power fist and power claw? negative he can only buy into a combi weapon (no combi grav) and a relic weapon that would be it. so at best he could go mace of redemption with his power maul/crozius and then do the tried n true double clubs loadout its sort of a shame we dont have codex supplement that would mean more weapons options. i kinda hoping someday they put out a supplement for the disciples of caliban or something, maybe the guardians of the covenant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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