Just how balanced is this game really?

[Ishagu]

I think EC can be pretty good...

[1000 Sons]

We're still playing a gw game, the more books and models that get released the more the balance can start to slide.  The difference i feel with hh is that the new models are usually available to all armies, so keep buying the new models and you can stay 'competitive'. The question for me is, do you want to build a powerful list, or do you want what you find to be a cool looking army.

 

Plus the rumours of shattered legions might change everything if we can just toss any specific legion unit in your army kind of makes 30k be the unbound style of game as well since you can take the best of any army, pick the row formation you want and now you got everything you want.

 

It all comes back to what do you want in your game, test you wits against an opponent to outsmart them ? That is not what gw does.  If you want to have a fun time with your models and some action packed table battles and scenarios where you don't need to win to know you had fun, then gw has what you want

[WolfOfHorus]

30K balance makes 40K an embarrassment.

 

And please keep tournaments away from this game, it was built to have fun.

You think 30k is balanced but you hate Tournaments... What.

[helterskelter]

 

30K balance makes 40K an embarrassment.

 

And please keep tournaments away from this game, it was built to have fun.

You think 30k is balanced but you hate Tournaments... What.

To be fair tournaments bring out the beard. Fluff kinda goes out the windows. That's part why we do 30k, we get to be fluffy and play a fun game

[Fire Golem]

 

30K balance makes 40K an embarrassment.

And please keep tournaments away from this game, it was built to have fun.

You think 30k is balanced but you hate Tournaments... What.

I don't see how those two points are mutually exclusive?

[WolfOfHorus]

 

 

30K balance makes 40K an embarrassment.

And please keep tournaments away from this game, it was built to have fun.

You think 30k is balanced but you hate Tournaments... What.

I don't see how those two points are mutually exclusive?

People's distaste for tournaments in 40k (and 30k) is that the game is unbalanced therefore unsuitable for competitive play. My opinion at least.

 

If 30k is balanced how can it be "beardy" for Tournaments, Warmachine has a large tournament scene and is widely considered balanced in online forums and FLGSes and has nowhere near the hatred for tournaments as the 40k/30k community.

[Arkangilos]

No, our distaste for tournaments is because people spam stupid crap in order to win, rather than build fluffy lists. 

[DuskRaider]

My distaste for tournaments has nothing to due with inbalance, it has to do with people being toolboxes and ruining the game. IMHO.

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

30K balance makes 40K an embarrassment.

And please keep tournaments away from this game, it was built to have fun.

You think 30k is balanced but you hate Tournaments... What.

I don't see how those two points are mutually exclusive?

They aren't, but they aren't inclusive either. WolfOfHorus is under the belief that if the tournament scene is well liked, then it must be balanced. So since most of the people who make up the 30K fandom do not like the tournament scene, his mind is that 30K must therefore not be balanced.

 

the reality is that the majority of the 30K fandom, simply doesn't care about the tournament scene. So while the armies are balanced in that every advantage can be negated(which is really what determined balance), there aren't that many people willing to play in the tournament scene.

 

Another thing that helps contribute to the misbelief is that a lot of 40K tournaments, don't allow 30K. Not because it isn't balanced(I mean let's face it, it's a 40K tournament; balance really isn't that much of a concern), but because the majority of the 40K community doesn't involve itself with Forgeworld and that lack of experience creates a fear that somehow Forgeworld products, and by extension 30K armies, are overpowered and unbalanced.

 

Is it perfectly balanced to the point that there are no advantages or disadvantages? No. But it'd be chess or checkers if it was.

 

So yes, the armies do have advantages and disadvantages. And that creates an unbalance, of sorts. But the balance is restored in that every advantage, can be defeated. Every disadvantage, can be exploited.

 

Facing a primarch with none of your own? Throw some knights or even a titan against it. Facing titans? Super heavy tanks. Gunships. D-weapons. Etc, etc, etc. The reality is that the so-called "unbalance" of 30K allows for variety. In one Legion, you can have an army for every rite of war and then every conceivable army that can be built using the books, with or even without using Legion-specific units.

 

Whereas nowadays, a single GW codex can maybe build 1-3 viable armies before it gets torn apart by the arrival of a new Codex.

 

So in summary, it ain't chess. But just because 30K ain't in a whole lot of tournaments, it doesn't mean its 40K either.

[Flint13]

++ Alright folks, let's simmer down several notches. This thread started off perfectly fine and conversational. Lets try and shoot for that. I've trimmed off topic and inflammatory stuff. We can have this conversation if it remains civil, but I'm gutting anything OT and warning anything that even sounds like an attack or insult. Carry on, have fun, be constructive and set a good example for OP who seems relatively new to the BnC. Please and thanks. ++

[1000 Sons]

30k and 40k are in the same boat for me, neither are a balanced competitive game, but they can both still be a ton of fun.  It would be neat if 30k tourney scene focus on campaign missions where there is no single winner but they end with either a loyalist or traitor team victory.

[WolfOfHorus]

I find it interesting that the tighter the rule set is, the more tournaments pop up, crazy right? In my FLGS alone I see more consistent tournies for Warmachine than 40k and I wonder why that is.

 

Maybe I'm too picky for expecting a tighter rule set in a game that is Marines versus Marines. Am I expecting to be Chess? No, but as I said earlier, even the FW designers know it could be better.

 

I love 30k, is it balanced? Hell no, good fun though.

[Ishagu]

But you can argue that 30k CAN be balanced in a tournament setting no matter what Legion is played as the strongest units are not exclusive to any one of them... Of course the armies would be very similar.

[heshman]

I'm in the camp that believes balance is not as good as is generally said to be on these boards, however I would certainly agree it's worlds better than 40K, and as a whole has not detracted from my enjoyment of the game.

[LordBlades]

Thanks for answers everyone.

 

TBH, I'm not looking for a tournament game (X-wing gets that covered for me just fine, with a big local community and reasonable costs :) )

 

What me&my friend are looking for is a system where there is enough balance so that you can field fluffy armies (or just stuff you happen to like) without the risk of getting tabled by turn 2, and from what I gather 30k does quite fine in this regard

[Raktra]

You're right at home.

[Atia]

Thanks for answers everyone.

TBH, I'm not looking for a tournament game (X-wing gets that covered for me just fine, with a big local community and reasonable costs )

What me&my friend are looking for is a system where there is enough balance so that you can field fluffy armies (or just stuff you happen to like) without the risk of getting tabled by turn 2, and from what I gather 30k does quite fine in this regard

Yep - HH covers that for you :)

*part of the crew - part of the ship*

:P