Remus Ventanus. Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 So, besides the obvious of Sigismund for the IF, and abaddon for the SOH, the rest of the legions arnt as clear cut for who the best warrior of each legion is. Anybody have any thoughts on who that might be for each legion? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313619-the-best-of-each-legion/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I thought Sevatar was obvious. Given his duel with siggy only ended when Sev headbutted him, then there's Khârn or delvarus. When Khârn gave a damp he could obliterate otherwise the duellist was delvarus. Lucius for the EC is another pretty high up there. My Nykona for the raven guard ( sorry ) Argal Tal for WB Corswain for DA The others can be a touch cloudy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313619-the-best-of-each-legion/#findComment-4170683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Sevatar for the Night Lords, probably Khârn for the World Eaters, maybe Raldoron for the Blood Angels? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313619-the-best-of-each-legion/#findComment-4170684 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phalanx Warder Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I am looking forward to seeing what Forge world will create for the legions yet to be released! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313619-the-best-of-each-legion/#findComment-4170695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 • Dark Angels - Corswain (I think?) • Emperor's Children - No idea, so many blowhards and braggarts in that legion lol • Iron Warriors - None have ever been mentioned, they don't seem to value individual heroism and skill overmuc, instead focusing tactical planning and logistical skill. • White Scars - No idea, none have been particularly noted • Space Wolves - The only one we have none to show particular prowess so far is Bjorn, so I'd go with him for now. • Imperial Fists - Sigismund • Night Lords - Sevatar • Blood Angels - Raldoron • Iron Hands - Shadrak Meduson? lol • World Eaters - Probably Khârn, Kargos, or Delvarus • Ultramarines - Tauro Nicodemus (Coolest name ever) or Marius Gage i'd say. • Death Guard - Probably Typhon • Thousand Sons - Again another legion that doesn't really place emphasis on personal prowess, but there is one sorcerer badass who almost kills Lucius in one of the Audio dramas. Can't remember his name though. • Sons of Horus - Gotta be Abbadon on this one • Word Bearers - Argel Tal probably • Salamanders - No Idea, they all seem to die too fast lol • Raven Guard - Plot Armour extraordinaire Nikona Sharrowkyn • Alpha Legion - Shadrak Meduson? lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313619-the-best-of-each-legion/#findComment-4170708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrannicide Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Jubal Khan is the Scar champion that takes on Sigismund in Templar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313619-the-best-of-each-legion/#findComment-4170719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Have we ever actually seen Typhon's combat prowess? The only thing I've ever seen him do is sit on his duff on Terminus Est. As far as combat champion, I'd argue Garro or even Grulgor would be more of a CC guy than Calas Typhon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313619-the-best-of-each-legion/#findComment-4170790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 We haven't seen enough of Typhon or the Death Guard to say. I imagine he's pretty damn handy though, being the first captain. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313619-the-best-of-each-legion/#findComment-4170805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000 Sons Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Death Guard really need an HH novel, besides Mort we don't get much insight into the legion. Though Garro does start the Death Guard successor chapter (Grey Knights) and has beaten a ton of opponents. The Thousand Sons swordsman champ was Sanakht, but most of the legion would rather just blast a swordsman with psyker powers then actually using their hands. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313619-the-best-of-each-legion/#findComment-4170860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marine7312000 Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I'm not convinced Raldoran would be the best in BA. I honestly think Amit would be a better choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313619-the-best-of-each-legion/#findComment-4170874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I'm not convinced Raldoran would be the best in BA. I honestly think Amit would be a better choice. Actually, I imagine Azkaellon is the best. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313619-the-best-of-each-legion/#findComment-4170893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Carnelian Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Blood Angels are another legion where "best swordsman" seems up for grabs. I'd probably give it to Amit though, but that's me speaking personally without any evidence to back it up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313619-the-best-of-each-legion/#findComment-4170896 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remus Ventanus. Posted September 14, 2015 Author Share Posted September 14, 2015 I find the RG, AL, UM hard to pick because they are legions which rely strongly on unison, and less so on individual warriors. (Not saying the rest of the legions dont have unison.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313619-the-best-of-each-legion/#findComment-4170897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 It's harder for some Legions than others. There are the best fighters in the Legiones Astartes,and then there are the the best fighters in each Legion. In Massacre Sevatar is compared to Abaddon, Corswain, Raldoron and Eidolon as the most lethal warriors in the Legiones Astartes. I'd say those 5 definitely need to be on any list of best warriors. Other than that, few Legions have comparably famous/infamous warriors actually famous for fighting skill. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313619-the-best-of-each-legion/#findComment-4170898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Death Guard really need an HH novel, besides Mort we don't get much insight into the legion. Though Garro does start the Death Guard successor chapter (Grey Knights) and has beaten a ton of opponents. The Thousand Sons swordsman champ was Sanakht, but most of the legion would rather just blast a swordsman with psyker powers then actually using their hands. Errr, Flight offers insight into the Death Guard and Grey Knights aren't their successor chapter.... First the fluff is the GK get their geneseed from the Emperor and not through a primarch. Second, they were formed out of the Knights Errant of which Garro is only one; there's currently 2 Luna Wolves still alive, meaning they have the most members involved of all the legions. On topic: I agree that the more tactically cohesive legions have a harder time choosing someone; the RG only get away with it because McNeil can only write RG in one way (over the top). I'd probably put the captain of their honour guard though (cant remember the name as he was in one novella) as he had to get that rank somehow, or Kaedes Nex as he embodies the lone assassin type part of the legion Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313619-the-best-of-each-legion/#findComment-4170927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 First Captain =\= best warrior. First Captain = best commander second only to the Primarch. There are lots of reasons to see first captains fight honor duels even if they may not be the best swordsman, because they are leaders and that's their job. Typhon may not be a great fighter, he uses a nearly useless weapon for combat, but he is definitely a brilliant general. The world eaters have no named first captain, but Khârn is their best warrior. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313619-the-best-of-each-legion/#findComment-4170935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Death Guard really need an HH novel, besides Mort we don't get much insight into the legion. Though Garro does start the Death Guard successor chapter (Grey Knights) and has beaten a ton of opponents. The Thousand Sons swordsman champ was Sanakht, but most of the legion would rather just blast a swordsman with psyker powers then actually using their hands. Ooh that makes me want to do a model of him now... Best of each legion is pretty subjective - best at what? Best at dueling? Best at leading? Best at what their legion embodies? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313619-the-best-of-each-legion/#findComment-4170952 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I'd place Eikos Lamiad above Nicodemus, purely based on the fact he put Abaddon on his arse in a couple of minutes in their honour duel at Ullanor. That and he fought at the Battle of Calth with one arm - boss. But yeah it's a pretty subjective....erm subject. And Rohr is right, the First Captain wasn't always the greatest warrior, and First Captain wasn't always the highest rank within a Legion, just look at the Emperor's Children and their Lord Commanders, or the Salamanders and the Pyre Guard (sorry too soon?). What about where there's several candidates? The III Legion all pride themselves as swordsmen and there's plenty there who'd be contenders within the Legion. Then you've got the World Eaters; Delvarus is the undisputed champion in the pits but would he ever beat Khârn in sanguinis extremis is debatable or the Blood Angels with Raldoron acknowledged as an outstanding warrior but you've got Amit also renowned among the Legions to say nothing of Azkaellon as herald of Sanguinius Plus it's hard to account for Legions who place unity of action above personal prowess such as the Death Guard/Iron Warriors/Alpha Legion and possibly even the Ultramarines.. The only really concrete ones we have are: Corswain Jubal Khan Sigismund Sevatar Raldoron Khârn Abaddon Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313619-the-best-of-each-legion/#findComment-4170986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 We have probably not seen the Alpha Legion most skilled fighter yet. Ashur Maesan comes close though, keeping up with Sharrowkyn pretty well and is even faster than him. ...besides, he fights with his special Hiebmesser knife...soo awesome! :) And then he dies, just like all other named Alpha Legion characters does in the books. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313619-the-best-of-each-legion/#findComment-4170994 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kizzdougs Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 • Dark Angels - Corswain (I think?) • Emperor's Children - No idea, so many blowhards and braggarts in that legion lol paragons of martial excellence and honour in that Legion. • Iron Warriors - None have ever been mentioned, they don't seem to value individual heroism and skill overmuc, instead focusing tactical planning and logistical skill. • White Scars - No idea, none have been particularly noted • Space Wolves - The only one we have none to show particular prowess so far is Bjorn, so I'd go with him for now. • Imperial Fists - Sigismund • Night Lords - Sevatar • Blood Angels - Raldoron • Iron Hands - Shadrak Meduson? lol • World Eaters - Probably Khârn, Kargos, or Delvarus • Ultramarines - Tauro Nicodemus (Coolest name ever) or Marius Gage i'd say. • Death Guard - Probably Typhon • Thousand Sons - Again another legion that doesn't really place emphasis on personal prowess, but there is one sorcerer badass who almost kills Lucius in one of the Audio dramas. Can't remember his name though. • Sons of Horus - Gotta be Abbadon on this one • Word Bearers - Argel Tal probably • Salamanders - No Idea, they all seem to die too fast lol • Raven Guard - Plot Armour extraordinaire Nikona Sharrowkyn • Alpha Legion - Shadrak Meduson? lol Fixed that for you, Heinrich ;) I'm not sure who I'd pick as the greatest warrior of the III Legion. Black Library likes to promote Lucius as the Legion's best, but also mentions Lord Commander Vespasian. Vespasian is my favourite HH character so I'm naturally inclined to see him as a candidate for greatest III Legion warrior. In Fulgrim, Julius Kaesoron (1st Captain), is in awe of the Lord Commander's abilities, both as a warrior and commander, describing him as 'controlled, graceful, and utterly deadly.' It is also mentioned that Vespasian's warriors liked to boast that he was the equal of Fulgrim, though all knew that such a boast was made in jest. The only problem with selecting Vespasian is that he is dead... :( Forgeworld doesn't mention Lucius as often as Black Library. Akurduana is said to be the Legion's finest swordsman before his death (we don't know when he died, but I assume it was some time before Istvaan). Lieutenant Commander Abdemon also deserves a mention. He defeated the chosen champion of the Katarn. The Kataran were a technologically advanced strand of humanity whose culture and society was almost entirely governed by, and based on ritualised single combat. A single, elite Kataran warrior was capable of slaying an entire squad of Emperor's Children Legionaries. Abdemon accepted the Kataran's invitation to settle the entire compliance via single combat, and slew the enemies greatest champion. Not bad... In short I'm not sure who the greatest warrior of the III is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313619-the-best-of-each-legion/#findComment-4170997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
karden00 Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I'd place Eikos Lamiad above Nicodemus, purely based on the fact he put Abaddon on his arse in a couple of minutes in their honour duel at Ullanor. That and he fought at the Battle of Calth with one arm - boss. But yeah it's a pretty subjective....erm subject. And Rohr is right, the First Captain wasn't always the greatest warrior, and First Captain wasn't always the highest rank within a Legion, just look at the Emperor's Children and their Lord Commanders, or the Salamanders and the Pyre Guard (sorry too soon?). What about where there's several candidates? The III Legion all pride themselves as swordsmen and there's plenty there who'd be contenders within the Legion. Then you've got the World Eaters; Delvarus is the undisputed champion in the pits but would he ever beat Khârn in sanguinis extremis is debatable or the Blood Angels with Raldoron acknowledged as an outstanding warrior but you've got Amit also renowned among the Legions to say nothing of Azkaellon as herald of Sanguinius Plus it's hard to account for Legions who place unity of action above personal prowess such as the Death Guard/Iron Warriors/Alpha Legion and possibly even the Ultramarines.. The only really concrete ones we have are: Corswain Jubal Khan Sigismund Sevatar Raldoron Khârn Abaddon I'm not sure if this exists just yet, so mods feel free to slap me down, but, wouldn't it be interested to know the historiography of these characters? Just take these names alone, (Tauro Nicodemus, as XIIIth as I am, we all know about you, and your legend is young...) But Corswain, Jubal Khan (I am pretty sure he hasnt been around for all that long?) Sigismund...We all bow to you, Emperors Champion. Sevatar....ADB did miracles with this guy, did he indeed create him, what was his history? Raldoron? I just dont know enough to say. Khârn....well, if you dont know enough about Khârn....you just have not been in this all that much. Which leads us to Abaddon. Sure. Im XIIIth legion through and through. I love that someone sanctioned by the BL wrote that Lamiad put Abaddon on his butt. Anyone ever read Tolkien? Plenty of characters have their way with Sauron in the first and second age, and it does nothing whatsoever to diminish Sauron in the 3rd age. It is simply a time and setting where things were a bit more even, a bit less *you are now the harbinger of doom* and a lot more *characters with impact and effect were around*. By the time of 40k or even mid to late 30k, Abaddon has realized his ascendance, and I am so, so OK with that. I think what I am getting at here is that I, and I think we all, need, more, more Abaddon, but also, more and more of these characters fleshed out Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313619-the-best-of-each-legion/#findComment-4171081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
karden00 Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Again, I dont have access to Visions, but what do we have on Corswain? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313619-the-best-of-each-legion/#findComment-4171082 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 It's worth pointing out that Abaddon was very nearly beaten by Loken in Galaxy in Flames despite the advantages he had over him. Terminator Armour, well-rested, uninjured and so forth. I'd wager if they'd been fighting a fair fight then Loken would probably have wound up winning, either as a result of trickery or pure martial skill. As far as the other legions go, eh. We need more Death Guard fluff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313619-the-best-of-each-legion/#findComment-4171087 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 In short, there's very, VERY few characters who had any history prior to Horus Rising, outside of the few who were granted some backstory in the various Chaos Codices or little blurbs of fluff like Kargos in the old second ed Codex Imperialis. Abaddon/Khârn/Ahriman have been around a fair while. Typhus/Typhon appeared in the 3rd ed dex along with Lucius. Loyalist wise, only Sigismund's story made it through with him being the founding High Marshal of the Black Templars and Bjorn Fel-hand for obvious reasons has been around a long, long time. This is one of the best things about the HH, characters for Legions who took part in some mighty important events get fleshed out and (in some cases) we get creations of literacy genius like Sevatar. I mean seriously how many people are supposed to enjoy reading about a psychopathic transhuman murderer. As for Corswain, as far as I understand he first appeared in Savage weapons as Paladin of the 9th Order (take that as you will) who eventually rose to Seneschal of the I Legion whilst the Lion went day tripping. And his name is mentioned in Sevatar's rules entry in Massacre as being eminent amongst the other Legions. That and when I asked Alan Bligh how they managed to right balanced rules for the best warrior among the Legions (meaning Sigismund) he simply replied "We haven't done Corswain yet" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313619-the-best-of-each-legion/#findComment-4171090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aralon56 Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 For the white Scars what about the captain of the Keshig Qin Xa. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313619-the-best-of-each-legion/#findComment-4171120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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